Riding on the hoods: New Fork needed?

[mizrachi]

The most comfortable position on my 60cm LHT is behind the hoods by a
few inches. Riding on the hoods themselves, as I do on my road bike,
i feel a bit stretched out. As the steering tube has been cut and I
can't raise my bars any more than they already are (with the two or
three spacers in there) it looks like I've got a few options in order
to ride comfortably on the hoods:

1. Buy an uncut fork
2. Buy a 58cm frame
3. Use a stem riser
4. Use an adjustable stem
5. Buy a smaller frame
6. Adjust saddle closer to bars
7. Decide that riding behind the hoods is fine and get used to it.

For what it's worth, I have already swapped out the stock 120mm stem
for a 70mm stem and I'm afraid going any smaller might make the ride
a bit twitchy. And, I should also mention, that aside from this
issue, the bike is quite comfortable.

What would you recommend?

(plz excuse the cross post)

[charlie]

Is the 60cm too big then? If you hover on the edge a smaller frame
might be better or a new fork with a taller steer tube. All the larger
size LHT's have the same length steer tube 56,58,60,62 no difference.
Sell or trade your 60cm for a used or new frame that is your correct
size with an uncut steer tube......or buy a Rivendell and use a quill
stem for more adjustability.

[mizrachi]

The 60cm LHT feels great aside from feeling a bit stretched out on the
hoods. I'm 6.05' with a pbh of 88.9 so I think I could fit either a
58 or a 60 but given the type of riding I do and the Riv sizing
philosophy privileging the larger frame, I went with the 60cm. And
again, the bike is really comfortable. The only adjustment I feel I
need at this point is getting myself as comfortable on the hoods as I
am on the corners, a few inches behind the hoods. Would a 58cm get me
there? I don't know. My gut tells me a new fork with an uncut
steering tube would help. But perhaps the solution is simply in an
adjustable stem. I dunno.

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Try the stem riser... it's $25-35, it'll bring the bars closer in both fore/aft and up/down dimensions, and it isolates the change to just bar position without changing other geometrical relationships (like an even shorter stem or an adjustable stem or a saddle shift would).

If it works out then you can get an uncut steerer if you want the same effect w/o the extra part. Or you can just use it indefinitely.

Caveat: the stem riser, at its minimum, may bring the bars *too* high. Then it remains a judgment call as to whether you'd be happy somewhere in between and thus whether a new uncut fork (presumably yours has been cut?) is the answer.

Since you describe the bike as generally comfortable otherwise, I wouldn't move the saddle. In my experience getting my butt in the right place relative to the pedals closely correlates to comfort. It allows me to use various cockpits and be comfy on all of them though they differ in height/reach/hand-orientation.

Personally I'd be very cautious about the smaller frame... I'm your height with a PBH of 90 and would probably get a 62cm LHT. I'd look into a different bar style (i.e. non-drop) before going that route.

That's my nickel ("2 cents" just doesn't cover it :)).

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

[Jim Mather]

On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 10:26 PM, mizrachi <mizrac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For what it's worth, I have already swapped out the stock 120mm stem
> for a 70mm stem  and I'm afraid going any smaller might make the ride
> a bit twitchy.  And, I should also mention, that aside from this
> issue, the bike is quite comfortable.

What's the angle on your stem? If it's nearly flat, I'd suggest
something like a Ritchey 30 degree stem. What's the position of your
brake hoods? Can you move them back?

jim m
wc ca

[René Sterental]

What handlebar are you using? Perhaps switching to a short reach drop
bar will help, if you don't already have one.

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[mizrachi]

Thank you all for your help.

I'd like to avoid swapping out my 46cm noodles as they're a joy to
use. However, I'm still trying to understand why a new fork with an
uncut steering tube would be less effective or less ideal than
adjustable stems, risers, etc. Seems to me that an uncut steering tube
will allow me to raise the bars higher than any extender and I can
then dial in the fit with stem length. Wouldn't raising the bars also
simultaneously shorten the reach to the hoods? Aside from the cost,
wouldn't this be simply the best option?

On Sep 10, 12:33 pm, René Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What handlebar are you using? Perhaps switching to a short reach drop
> bar will help, if you don't already have one.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>

> On Sep 10, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Jim Mather <mather...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Seth Vidal]

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:35 PM, mizrachi <mizrac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you all for your help.
>
> I'd like to avoid swapping out my 46cm noodles as they're a joy to
> use.  However, I'm still trying to understand why a new fork with an
> uncut steering tube would be less effective or less ideal than
> adjustable stems, risers, etc. Seems to me that an uncut steering tube
> will allow me to raise the bars higher than any extender and I can
> then dial in the fit with stem length. Wouldn't raising the bars also
> simultaneously shorten the reach to the hoods?  Aside from the cost,
> wouldn't this be simply the best option?
>
>

the stem extension is a cheap test of getting a new fork.

If you put the raiser on - and it is all unicorns and rainbows
then you know what you need AND you know the height you need it.

If it doesn't you're out what? $20?

that's a good deal.

-sv

[Michael_S]

I'm just a 1/4" shorter than you but with only a 86 pbh, so you must have  a shorter torso. I would probably ride a 58 LHT with a 100mm stem.

In your case the 58 may have been a better choice due to top tube length if you don't fit a 60 with a 70mm stem. Bike fit is a compromise between seat tube height and top tube in my opinion. 

 

As a few others have said, hood position could be moved up/back on your noodles or the stem riser to get you closer could be a short term fix.

 

Mike

 

 

[Jim Mather]

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:35 AM, mizrachi <mizrac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Aside from the cost, wouldn't this be simply the best option?

Getting a new fork will certainly work. With a bunch of spacers and
the 2 stems you have, you can try a lot of options. For me, the best
option would be the least expensive that gets me the fit I need.

jim m
wc ca

[David Yu Greenblatt]

Mizrachi,

What bars are you using? Would switching to a different bar with less
reach help?

http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

David G, Madison WI

[charlie]

Holy beans brother......at 6' 5" you should fit a 60 or even a 62 cm.
I ride a 58cm and I am only 5' 11". It doesn't sound as if your arms
are super short or your torso either given the fact that your PBH is
88.9 (mine is 86.4). You may just need to do some flexibility
exercises. My bar is a 41 cm noodle so given the height differences
I'd say our bikes fit us similarly. I also bought a 75mm stem and
thought I was more comfy but realized I was crunching up after riding
my new Rivendell SimpleOne. I did some measuring and went back to my
old 90mm stem and duplicated the Rivendell fit which has proven to be
fine. Regardless a 58cm will be too small for you (get that thought
out of your mind seriously) go back and read the Rivendell fit method
especially stem lengths etc. and do some measuring of your torso and
arm reach. At your height and leg length I can't imagine that you
would need a stubby 75mm stem using a 46cm noodle bar unless your
shoulders are very narrow and your arms are unusually short. Still,
your torso comprises a good deal of your height based on the
measurements you've given so it doesn't make sense that you are
feeling stretched out. The noodle bar does have a long reach and you
may benefit from a narrower bar in that style. Going with a narrower
grip (41 cm) effectively lengthens your reach (think about it) but the
difference is only about 50mm overall from a 46cm. The same thing
happens when you ride the tops but its more extreme. You sound as if
you are doing the exact same thing I did....thinking I was stretched
out too far and placing my hands on the curve of the bar seemed
natural at first. Given all that I would disassemble your fork and
take a measurement from the crown race to the top of the threads and
compare over the telephone before ordering a new fork. There may not
be much difference if any and it may make more sense to have one
custom built with a longer steer tube ( if ) that is your actual
problem. I think if it were me and it came to that, I would sell the
Trucker (fine bike that it is) and purchase something else with more
fit flexibility (probably a Rivendell) since I would be able to
converse about the fit with them on the same level and get a bike that
actually fit right from the start. Hope this helps some.

[charlie]

Can you post a photograph of yourself on your bicycle (wear a non
baggy shirt) that is taken from a side view and from the front? Do one
on the hoods and one on the curve of the bar plus one on the tops for
good measure....have a friend help. Just slightly lean against a wall
and assume your normal position on the bike. When you/we see the
results it'll answer some questions.

[mizrachi]

Sorry for the confusion...I never have to write my height down. But
I'm a bit under six foot one. I'm six feet and one half inch. No
where near six foot five.

[Philip Williamson]

Like Charles, I would not recommend getting a smaller bike in order to
get your bars higher.

I think a new fork is a good answer, but a riser stem makes more sense
in terms of cost, weight and hassle.
And aesthetics; I think a long steerer and flat stem = sandals and
socks.

Your perfect stem is on eBay: 40° 90mm stem, $13.87 (free shipping):
#110740029226
Compare to LHT fork, $83 (free shipping): #130554398828

Philip

Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

[dougP]

Rivendell used to have a chart entitled "Sizing Your Atlantis" that
listed PBH, saddle height & frame size. There was some overlap in
frame sizes. It lists a 58 cm frame for a PBH of 84 to 89, and a 61
cm for PBH of 87 to 93. So your 88.9 cm PBH could ride either a 58 or
61 Atlantis. Since your LHT is 60, and your otherwise comfortable, it
sounds like your darn close now.

The stem riser suggestion above is easy, quick & cheap. One of my
touring buds solved major comfort issues with one, and his bike came
stock with an adjustable stem and trekking bars.

dougP

> > > adjustable stem.  I dunno.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[charlie]

Okay then that's a little different.... at six foot plus your PBH is
slightly on the long side (I assume this was measured in socks) with
feet at pedal width? Given that, it sounds as if your torso is maybe
on the shorter side and perhaps arm reach also. If your shoulders are
narrower coupled with the other factors you may indeed need that
shorter stem. Keep in mind if you raise the bar on a stem riser the
bar moves back toward you so you may in fact need a longer stem.....it
just depends though. Your current stem may be just fine..... get a
stem riser and try sliding the bars/stem higher. Once you find your
sweet spot you can always decide if you want a new fork but pay
attention to the actual length of the new steer tube. A custom fork
might be a better option as you could make it taller from the start
and maybe get a low trail rake or special braze ons for a rack etc.
Only problem is, you start to put too much into a $400 frame at which
point you may as well get something like a used Atlantis which is a
much better frame.

On Sep 10, 12:50 pm, mizrachi <mizrachi1...@gmail.com> wrote:

[newenglandbike]

Are your bars currently level with the seat?    I'd say go for it with regard to the uncut fork.     You can get them for fairly cheap, I think, and raising the bars even a little has a dramatic effect on reach/comfort IMHO, so I'm confident it will resolve the issue.

Also, FWIW, I don't think your measurements are weird at all-    I think many people underestimate their PBH measurement (if you look at the sizing spreadsheet on the LHT&CC forum you'll see what I mean).  

I'm exactly the same height, with the same pbh (89cm) as you.   My seat-height is usually set at ~79cm and i have a 64cm quickbeam with a 60cm top-tube, though the theoretical measurement is more like 61cm.   When I have drop-bars on it and a 9cm stem, I find with the bars level with the seat, it's very comfortable.   I have nitto moustaches on it right now, but with a shorter stem which is the recommended configuration for moustache bars.

[mizrachi]

The bars are below the seat and should be leveled. I'll most likely
try a stem riser until I can find an olive LHT 700c fork.

Anyway, thank you all for your help. I'll update my progress as soon
as it's resolved.

[SamuelJames]

You can also buy a threaded fork for your LHT and use a quill.