Roadini and Unpaved, Experience?

[Jay]

I have the 2023 Roadini, size 57.  I LOVE the bike and how it feels, every time I get on it after a long break (riding another bike on snowy/salty roads) I'm reminded of just how good it fits, handles, and feels.

I'm thinking of adding a third wheel set, for mainly unpaved riding (more below).  I'm curious as to your experience with this bike on gravel roads, trails, etc.  I realize bike configs will differ, as to the specific riding conditions, but to me this is not a road bike like the ones I've had previously, so I want to push the envelope and see what terrain I can ride, somewhat comfortably.

Recap: Bought it a year ago and had two wheel sets from the start, one with Dura-Ace wheels I already had, and 30mm tires for road rides with a friend, who is faster than me (me and the bike can keep up! so it has replaced my road bike); the other with new 105 hubs and H plus son archetype rims with 43mm GKSS tires for every other ride, which includes rail trails, short sections of gravel paths connecting roads, and 100% paved rides when on my own (I like the added comfort and versatility over the 30mm tires).  Swapping wheels is so easy, pop the quick release on the TRP levers and on the other one on the brake callipers, swap wheels, barrel adjuster on the calliper to adjust pads to rim, done.  I'm always playing records when messing around with the bike, and this is a "one song" adjustment lol

If I was to add a third wheel set, I think I would want go tubeless, with supple 43-45mm tires with an aggressive tread.  I want to maximize comfort and also have a tire that can corner on loose gravel, and ride comfortably over choppy gravel roads (on longer mixed surface rides).  The 43mm GKSS tires are great, and I run that at 30psi if mixed surface, but they lack comfort on chunky terrain and don't handle my twisty gravel trails very well (where as my Salsa Fargo with 2.2" tubeless tires, smooth centre / knobby corners, is great).

Looking for your input about this bike's capability unpaved/off-road, our experience, and recommendations for TLR rims, and tires as described above.  Thanks!

[Ryan Mulcahy]

Looking forward to answers to this. I have a Hilsen set up for road riding, with slicks and a dark-boston-winter-inspired dynamo, and I love it -- it's fast and so comfortable -- and have no plans to make any big changes.
(Except maybe to Paul brakes -- big for the wallet.) 

Thinking of getting a Roadini or an Atlantis next, for trail riding but also, sometimes, commuting. On first glance, it seems like the Atlantis would be the smart choice, but I like the geo of the roadini better, like that it's a little lighter, like that the lugged version seems more rack friendly, and I'm just not convinced that a somewhat experienced (def not expert) rider needs anything bigger than a 43/45 tired unless he/she is hitting mountain trails. (For which a mountain bike will always be better.) I have a crust bombora, which I would gift to my son, and on all kinds of trails I've never felt any ride-feel difference between a 42 tire and a 50. So curious about others' experiences.
Jay, thanks for asking this questions, and as far as tire advice, I really love the soma cazaderos for what you're describing.
Cheers!

[Brent Eastman]

I ride my Roadini all over. I'm on a 57 as well. 6'1" and 185lbs. I have 32H dyad hoops. Only used Ultradynamico Cava 42s on it so far.

I have thrown the rear wheel out of true after getting "air" off some roots on familiar trails. That's about as crazy as I get, and I've learned not to beat on it the way I can do with my Sam. Sam has 36 hole Atlas wheels. 

[Brady Smith]

I've used my Roadini on a fair amount of gravel. With 35mm tires it's pretty comfortable on forest roads. The limiting factor is probably hand fatigue on long dirt descents. I'm rim brake for most things, but gravel in the mountains is where hydro discs really make a difference. 

[Jay]

If I add a third wheelset the focus would be comfort and handling.  I don't like feeling tossed around on a gravel ride.  On my local mixed-surface / mixed-use trails, I've had 32mm tires all the way up to 2.2".  They've all worked, but I've felt the best with the wider tires.  It's just the bike that fits them is only half as comfortable as the Roadini.

[Jason Fuller]

List member Dan (daneebwoy) has ridden their Roadini on a lot of dirt and hopefully can weigh in.  There are a lot of good options in the 40mm range but my own experience is limited.  I really like the Rene Herse tires for grippy knobs that are still good on pavement, but some people have had trouble with them tubeless. I've been really happy with Teravail's stuff and the Rutland is a well designed knobby tire that comes in 700x38 and 700x42 - I'm inclined to recommend them despite not used those sizes. The only negative I have from those I know who've used them is they wear relatively quickly.  

[Nicolas H]

I had a similar question a few weeks back (new Roadini owner) and from what other folks said there are Roadini owners who happily treat the frame like a hard tail MTB and have no problems. Some claim it's the most versatile bike in the Riv lineup if your weight and setup allow for it to be (hot take?).  

[dane...@gmail.com]

eyyy! 

OFFRoadini.  Yeah, where I currently live almost every road off of the main roads is dirt/gravel with some chunkier connections in between both single track and class 4 roads.  OFFRoadini works fine for all.  If you think about it the geometry is really more like a gravel bike of yesteryear with longer chainstays that add to the stability when going fast down some loose dirt roads.  Mine is 1x12 Force Levers with ratio kit adapter, which adds to its modern gravellyness.  I personally really only ride slicks on a bike like this.  Mainly Rene Herse 44mm extra lights, but honestly 35's work pretty damn good too.  Since its winter here and I can't really ride any dirt with such a bike right now, I currently have some 32 Conti GP5000 S TR's on there and definitely enjoy the zippier feel and slightly decreased stability with a skinnier tire when riding almost all pavement.   I don't find knobs do anything on hard dirt roads or gravel roads and I'm willing to deal with it if I come across some mud.  Rather do that than ride knobbies on pavement personally.  

-DanEE Bwoy.

[Bill Lindsay]

Leo Roadini may be "the most versatile bike in the Riv lineup if your weight and setup allow for it to be (hot take?)."  

It's a pretty hot take, but I also think the versatility resides mostly in the rider.  It's a common exchange at the bike shop, when the customer says "I just want a bike, how do I choose?"  The first question from the salesperson asks is "what kind of riding do you do?"  Some people are super narrow in what they do and how far they want to expand their envelope.  Other cyclists want to do and actively pursue doing everything or a huge swath of things.  The Leo Roadini in the hands of an intrepid rider can do most things a bicycle can do.  The rider makes the versatility, and the bike just doesn't get in the way of it.  

Now some riders need encouragement of some kind to expand their envelope.  Like if there was a strictly pavement rider, who was scared of trails, I doubt the Roadini would significantly force them out of their comfort zone.  Give the Roadini to a fearless off-road rider, and they'll do great on the trails.  I think what it comes down to is the human looking for a reason for the bike to limit them.  For example, you NEVER hear of people doing Randonnees on a Clem.   Why?  Because it's really easy to look at a Clem and decide it's not suited for a 200k brevet, so nobody tries.  I'd bet the price of a Clem that any experienced randonneur could do it and it would be fine.  They may not hang with their normal group, but it would be a lovely ride.  They may not choose a Clem as their primary rando-bike, but the versatility is in there.  It's mostly determined by the human.  I like Mark's analogy.  Bike is hardware, person is software.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Piaw Na]

On Monday, February 10, 2025 at 6:54:22 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

It's a pretty hot take, but I also think the versatility resides mostly in the rider.  It's a common exchange at the bike shop, when the customer says "I just want a bike, how do I choose?"  The first question from the salesperson asks is "what kind of riding do you do?"  Some people are super narrow in what they do and how far they want to expand their envelope.  Other cyclists want to do and actively pursue doing everything or a huge swath of things.  The Leo Roadini in the hands of an intrepid rider can do most things a bicycle can do.  The rider makes the versatility, and the bike just doesn't get in the way of it.  

 

Think about what the typical bike shop employee has to deal with. Famous frame builder Dave Moulton wrote on his blog that most bikes are impulse purchased, ridden at most a few times (and sometimes not even that) before retired permanently in the garage. That's why there are so many Fusos in great condition for sale on eBay, years after he retired. The shop employee is NOT going to suggest that you "underbike" at all. In fact, they're motivated to sell you the bike that is "overbike" for your riding conditions, even if as a result you don't enjoy the cycling experience very much and stop cycling --- after all, they know that most people stop cycling after a few times. (I bought my son's Salsa Journeyman from a lady who bought a bike during the pandemic, rode it twice, and then gave up cycling --- the tires were heavy and way too wide someone her size or weight --- after I swapped them out for Pacenti 38mm tires my son loved the bike and did 2000' of climbing up over the local mountain, including the dirt section over the top where I once saw Tom Ritchey flash by at 20mph on his road bike, 23mm tires, no helmet)

Similarly, last year at Bormio, the bike shop "The Stelvio Experience" warned us against riding the Passo Di Valle Alpisella, warning us that the road bike couldn't handle it. I did it on my tandem with my 9 year old (https://blog.piaw.net/2024/08/june-25th-bormio-to-livigno-via-laghi.html), and it took some walking but it was totally worth it. I have no doubt the Roadini wouldn't even have blinked.

I run 700x40mm Continental Terra Speed on my Roadini. They measure 38mm on my Velocity A23 rims. I think I got them on sale for about $40 a tire, and I'm much too cheap to spend the $100/tire on the Rene Herse Extralight equivalents. The little kobbies don't do much and have almost worn off the back tire after about 1000 miles, but they do what I expect tires to do.

[Bill Lindsay]

That's the prime example on iBob of an accomplished underbiker.  Piaw Na is in the Jobst Brandt mold, ignoring what people tell them about what a bike can or can't do, and doing it anyway.  If they break a bike, they get it fixed or replaced and keep doing whatever they want.  That's the main personality type I was thinking of when I said "the rider makes the versatility".  

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Piaw Na never worked the Sales Floor at a bike shop.  

BL in EC

[Bill Lindsay]

"That's the prime example on iBob of ..."

LOL!  This is the RBW list.  Sorry!

BL

[Chris Balaschak]

I have been enjoying my Roadini with 35s - RH Bon Jon Pass (regular grade). I would say I ride 60/40 paved to unpaved. Mostly the unpaved miles are forest service roads, well packed but loose and sharp at the edges. I am thoroughly impressed with the tires and how they hold up to some brutal descents and jagged gravel. It is a bit under-bikey (descents can be extra jarring) and I will be trying some 38s, but really the 35s are pretty damn good for rolling across several terrains. 

[dane...@gmail.com]

I definitely agree with everything Bill is saying.  It does work fine and I enjoy underbiking, but your experience may differ if it's not your cup of tea.  

-Dan

[Mathias Steiner]

>> LOL!  This is the RBW list.  Sorry!

Think of it as cross-pollination...

[Eric Marth]

Wish I could comment from personal experience but I don't have a Roadini. 

From rides I've seen shared by Danee and another Northeast Roadini rider (Deetz in Nutmeg) the Roadini frame seems to be a great adventure road bike, handles well on unpaved roads, certain trails and gravel even though it isn't billed as such. Strikes me as suited to the all-day adventures Jobst organized and Peter Hassler wrote about in Once Upon a Ride, on and off road around the SF Bay area. 

Jay if you can find the right wheel/tire combo I'd love to hear how your Roadini handles on the types of surfaces you describe. 

[P W]

*Ray Hosler

Peter Hassler wrote Wild and Crazy Ride

About being in Vietnam, the merchant marines, and the FDNY.

Probably a good double bill back to back tho!

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

[Jay]

Thanks for the comments.  Once my local trails are rideable I'll try out the Roadini with the GKSS 43mm tires I have on there already, with tubes, and I'll just drop the pressures to as low as I'm comfortable.

[John Bokman]

I ride 700c Sam off-road on 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Roads. They are outstanding, in my estimation. Plenty good on pavement and excellent off pavement. My concern about riding rough off road is not with tire cush or gription, but with toe overlap. I experience overlap on my Sam, using flat pedals (feet further forward on pedals). Because this bothers me, I would want a 650B or 26" wheel for this use case, ideally. It's too bad Riv no longer posts front-center measurements on the geometry table, because it can be a good indication if overlap could be problematic. Just one more thing to mull over, perhaps.

John

Oregon

[Eric Marth]

Thanks for the catch, Philip, I totally butchered his name!

I think everyone on the forum would enjoy Ray Hosler's books and writing: https://rayhosler.wordpress.com/ 

[dane...@gmail.com]

If I'm getting to some terrain on the Roadini that is questionable, I'm usually mostly worried about destroying my tires than anything to do with the frame.

-Dan

[dane...@gmail.com]

On the subject of toe overlap...My current Riv is the tigged 50cm from last run before the lugged ones.  I'm a little on the edge sizing wise for the 50cm due to the 55cm top tube.  I was tempted to swap parts out for a lugged version, but when I checked the geo chart for the lugged ones the top tube length on the 50cm size increased to 56cm!  So now the gap between sizing at the small end of the spectrum goes from 51.5cm tt to 56.2cm tt.  Neither of which fit me.  When I asked Will why they did that, he said for toe overlap reasons.  I asked him if they thought about shortening it again and making it 650b like the smaller size but he said it's not in the plans.  If they did that I would have jumped on it.  I like 650b better for 38mm and up tires on roadish bykes.  Maybe in the future.

-DanEE Bwoy

On Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 10:52:19 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

[John Dewey]

And isn’t JB our very favorite underbiker? I think so. 

Jock

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[John Dewey]

Yikes, I’m having flashbacks to Robin from LICKTONS and his Jobst obsessions. 

I need to shake that outta me 🤪

JD

[John Dewey]

Reminds me of The Roughstuff Fellowship. I never go rock climbing without my bike. 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 8:28 AM John Dewey <john...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Piaw Na]

I don't think Jobst ever did anything extreme as some of the RSF reports indicate. He does enjoy riding more than hiking. Gary Erickson (founder/CEO of Clif Bar) did mention he once used his Ritchey Road Logic as an ice axe while glissading in the alps.

[Patrick Moore]

There are photos on the web showing Jobst and company shouldering bikes over some rather rough terrain; whether this qualifies as extreme for others, I can’t say, but it certainly would be pushing my limits. Not at all to quarrel, but I really love the photos and stories of Jobst & Co rambling over No Cal singletrack and dirt alpine back roads on 28 mm tubulars.

I recall long ago a story — Riv Reader? — by a mountain bike rider who came across Tom Ritchey riding mountainous gravel tracks on a skinny-tired road bike. Rider piped up with, “You might want to consider a mountain bike with fatter tires.” Ritchey they revealed his identity.

Speaking of underbiking: recall how in senior year in high school I organized what was in effect a cyclocross race — tho’ I had never heard of cyclocross in 1972 or ’73 around our campus. 3 or 4 teams, motley collection of non-cyclocross bikes —forget what they were — perhaps another team fielded the rather pretty Danish roadster in red and chrome with coaster brake, ~38 mm white tires, chainguard and full fenders; large Scandinavian contingent at our school. Anyway, I had the bright idea of borrowing our askari’s Indian-made 28” wheel (35 mm tires) rod braked roadster with the promise that on return I’d have an AW laced installed — exotic in that time and place. I stripped off rack and fenders and got the weight down to, what, 40 lb. The course involved multiple 1.5-2 mile circuits of the dirt perimeter of the very large unmaintained playing field, a long dirt path through the surrounding coffee plantation, and down to the groomed dirt school access road with speed berms and very, very steep 4/10-mile uphill back to campus, repaeat. I was chagrined that my team didn’t win; forget our placing.

Askari took the exchange with his usual detachment and rode the AW wheel for a year or so, carrying his wife on the carrier 7 or 9 miles into town over hilly, winding 2-lanes at 8 mph and 5K+ feet. But he had no clue whatsoever about multiple gear and simply left the hub to decay in 3rd/High until I realized that I was projecting my wishes on his needs and had the AW replaced by another ss hub.

[Mike in BK]

Hi Brenton,

If you have a 57 Roadini and a 57 Sam from a recent MIT generation, their geos looks very similar (like, very). With the Sam being more stout and a little longer, how would you compare the rides? Interested in the feel on the road and capabilities on non-paved roads (which you've already described a bit here).

Thanks!

Mike

[David Ross]

Tire inserts with tubeless can make a huge difference with gravel width tires and allow you to run pressures down another 5psi or so. I don’t know your weight, but anything other than reasonably groomed trails can be rough on narrower tires and wheels. 

On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 7:50 AM Jay <jason....@gmail.com> wrote:

I have the 2023 Roadini, size 57.  I LOVE the bike and how it feels, every time I get on it after a long break (riding another bike on snowy/salty roads) I'm reminded of just how good it fits, handles, and feels.

I'm thinking of adding a third wheel set, for mainly unpaved riding (more below).  I'm curious as to your experience with this bike on gravel roads, trails, etc.  I realize bike configs will differ, as to the specific riding conditions, but to me this is not a road bike like the ones I've had previously, so I want to push the envelope and see what terrain I can ride, somewhat comfortably.

Recap: Bought it a year ago and had two wheel sets from the start, one with Dura-Ace wheels I already had, and 30mm tires for road rides with a friend, who is faster than me (me and the bike can keep up! so it has replaced my road bike); the other with new 105 hubs and H plus son archetype rims with 43mm GKSS tires for every other ride, which includes rail trails, short sections of gravel paths connecting roads, and 100% paved rides when on my own (I like the added comfort and versatility over the 30mm tires).  Swapping wheels is so easy, pop the quick release on the TRP levers and on the other one on the brake callipers, swap wheels, barrel adjuster on the calliper to adjust pads to rim, done.  I'm always playing records when messing around with the bike, and this is a "one song" adjustment lol

If I was to add a third wheel set, I think I would want go tubeless, with supple 43-45mm tires with an aggressive tread.  I want to maximize comfort and also have a tire that can corner on loose gravel, and ride comfortably over choppy gravel roads (on longer mixed surface rides).  The 43mm GKSS tires are great, and I run that at 30psi if mixed surface, but they lack comfort on chunky terrain and don't handle my twisty gravel trails very well (where as my Salsa Fargo with 2.2" tubeless tires, smooth centre / knobby corners, is great).

Looking for your input about this bike's capability unpaved/off-road, our experience, and recommendations for TLR rims, and tires as described above.  Thanks!

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[John Bokman]

I have more or less the same questions as Mike in BK. I ride a 2017 58cm Sam, and the equivalent sized Roadini (a 57cm as it happens) has almost identical numbers. The number I'm most interested in would be the front center. But they don't list those stats anymore in the geo charts? From email exchange with Will, the two frames will ride very similarly. I wouldn't be surprised if the tubing is indeed slightly different - or not - but I'm not sure if I'd notice it. What I would notice, however, is the front center measurement; Ideally I would want more than I currently get with my Sam (61.8cm, according to Bike Insights).

John

Oregon

[Franco Rinaldi]

Interesting thread. I own a 57 Sam set up with drop bars / 42mm gravel kings. I had the opportunity to build a lugged 54 roadini, I’m luckily on the cusp of both sizes. What persuaded me to follow through despite the quite obvious similarities, was the ability to size down. Looking forward to a more road build. Will report back once I have some riding done, super stoked. 

Franco Rinaldi 

c:  646.403.0661 

-Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-

On Mar 3, 2025, at 5:00 PM, John Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have more or less the same questions as Mike in BK. I ride a 2017 58cm Sam, and the equivalent sized Roadini (a 57cm as it happens) has almost identical numbers. The number I'm most interested in would be the front center. But they don't list those stats anymore in the geo charts? From email exchange with Will, the two frames will ride very similarly. I wouldn't be surprised if the tubing is indeed slightly different - or not - but I'm not sure if I'd notice it. What I would notice, however, is the front center measurement; Ideally I would want more than I currently get with my Sam (61.8cm, according to Bike Insights).

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[Brent Eastman]

TRAIL:

Honestly the biggest factor has been cockpit. You are correct the geo is almost identical. I’ve never made a 1:1 comparison between my two bikes with same cockpit, but the drop bars I had on Sam are now on Leo. When I had only one bike, it was Sam, and I would switch from drops to other bars too often, and thus decided to get a second bike. On technical trails with drop bars the Sam felt great, until descents get steep, then it’s sketchy. Now that it has Billie bars (I've also used Simworks getaround and ahearne MAP) those same descents are fun. The geometry of both bikes can handle trail riding if you are skilled and comfortable with that stuff. Biggest impact to the trail riding experience will be cockpit and wheel/tire choice. Also if you weigh 175lbs or more and only want one of these two bikes, I’d say Sam all day. Roadini flexes a lot for me. I don’t think I knew what flex was until pushing myself and my Roadini. 

ROAD:

I don’t have any carbon or aluminum road bike experience to compare to. Compared to 80s-90s steel road bikes with 25mm tires, both Sam and Leo are Cadillacs. Super comfy. Road manners are most affected by tires and cockpit. I’ve done centuries on both and they rule. Again I would stress that since the geo is the same, I’d consider the Roadini if you have a slimmer build, and if you’re closer to 200lbs I’d go Sam all day. The “road performance” of Roadini was negligible in comparison. I consider my Roadini 'faster' only because it has drops, lighter wheels, smoother tires, no racks, minimal baggage, just less weight overall. Never weighed either bike.

OBVIOUS:

The trails that felt sketchy on my Sam w/drop bars do not get ridden by me on the Roadini, at all. Yes the Roadini is way more trail capable than most dedicated road bikes, because the geo is chill and the tires (on mine) are fat (42 Cavas). The bike does have limits, though, and I don't need to push those limits because I have a Hillborne. Despite the matching geometry I would hastily rate the Sam [60/40 Road/Trail] and the Leo [80/20 Road/Trail] 

[Jay]

Lot's of great info shared - thank you!

My takeaway so far is that the nature of "unpaved" varies and that my Roadini, in comparison to my Fargo, will win some, and lose some.

As an example, I've been riding my Fargo throughout the winter, mainly with 2.2" tubeless gravel tires on paved roads.  Some of these roads have had work done in the past 6 months and the paving is awful.  The Roadini is so much smoother over these roads (Roadini with 43 GKSS, tubed).  The frame flex is noticeable, in a really good way.

My local mixed-surface trails, which are mainly crushed limestone, with technical sections, is where I'm hoping the Roadini will do well.  I've only taken the Fargo on these trails because that's why I bought the bike in the first place.  It does awesome on the trails, and I'm moving around a lot on the bike, so the bike has fine been fine.  But on long road rides in the winter, not so good.

I still dream of the Roadini being the one bike to rule them all (my *them*), and having like 4 wheel sets!   figured I could have my two existing wheels: 43mm GKSS for most road rides, which includes doses of trails; 30mm fast rubber on dura-ace wheels for road rides with friends; and then I would add, knobbies for trail rides, and a set of winter studded tires.  I would be reluctant to ride her much in winter due to the salty roads (even though I clean my Fargo after every ride), plus the rim brakes.

[John Bokman]

Ahh...the One bike to rule them all. I've tried for years! My Sam can indeed fulfill pretty much all the riding I'm likely to do. This means city riding (commute and recreation), touring,  and off-pavement riding that isn't gnarly (anything requiring more than the 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road tires I use for off-roading). BUT: my limitation is fenderability. Here in Western Oregon, I like fenders, most of the year. My Sam won't accept 43mm tires with fenders...And I don't want to commute nor tour without them. Thus, my thoughts of a second bike. If I lived in Riv's locale, I think I could pretty much do it all on Sam. But, I don't. I'm surprised you aren't be-fendered in your neck of the woods. Must be drier up there than I thought. Or your tolerance for slop is greater than mine. Either way, good on you, Jay.

John

Oregon

[Nicolas H]

Lately I've actually been really intrigued by this idea of doing less with more, which I guess is what we consider underbiking. I guess the idea of having the "perfect" bike seems both naive and a little un-attractive for some reason. Maybe others can chime on this indescribable feeling I'm trying to articulate.  On the other hand, I might just be trying to talk myself out of buying an Atlantis.

Thanks,

Nic

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[Brenton Eastman]

Sam Hillborne is that bike. I had it as my only bike for three years. I only built a Roadini because I had an extra cockpit, extra wheelset, and found a frameset in my preferred color with brakes for $1100. 

On Mar 12, 2025, at 2:14 PM, Nicolas H <nics...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ryan Mulcahy]

I'd say the Hilsen is pretty close to that bike for me, though I mainly use it on roads. (I'm tempted to add a Hillborne, but wish they would bump the clearance a little bit--right now, save the brakes, it's almost exactly the same as the AHH.) In the non-Riv family, the Crust Bombora is hard to beat, esp with 2 wheelsets: 48 slicks for the roads, 2.2s for trails. 

[Nicolas H]

Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that makes any sense. If I'm going to underbike then I'll take whatever ride I have and deal with the fear and shortcomings head on. Otherwise, I'll fill the stable out with more specific bikes, you know what I mean. I personally have been taking the Roadini everywhere and when the fear and concerns hit they have more to do with my inexperience as a cyclist than the shortcomings of the ride. Maybe this is all too deep but hopefully some of you can catch what I'm trying to say. 

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[Jay]

What you said makes sense 'nicseve1'.  For me though, it's less about underbiking and fear of skills on where I would ride the Roadini, but more about comfort.  I have a history of aches/pains that I've spent so much timing dealing with that my priority is always comfort (anything from cockpit set up to plush-ness of the ride and chance of pain on/after the ride from being 'beaten up').  I think the Roadini frame has the plush-ness for where I want to ride it, I have the cockpit set up comfortably for my back/shoulders/neck (and arms/hands) but if I take it on some chunky gravel I'm worried that the max tire width may be limiting.

[Piaw Na]

On Friday, March 14, 2025 at 8:14:01 AM UTC-7 nics...@gmail.com wrote:

Deep down, I don't think any of us want just one bike and the reason we think we do is because we want it to save us from ourselves, if that makes any sense

That may make sense for you, but not for me. When I moved to Munich in 2007, I moved with just one bike, the custom Road bike I'd just gotten delivered. When my girlfriend visited for 3 months we brought over the tandem, which made for 2 bikes. I never felt the need for more bikes, and when my girlfriend moved back to the USA the tandem just sat unused taking up space. After I moved back to the US I lived with just that one road bike and sold the tandem. It's nice to have only one bike to maintain, and it definitely saved all the work involved in trying to decide which bike to take. It was only after I  broke that ti frame twice (mind you in between it was 10 years) that I decided that I "deserved" a back up road frame (the Roadini) which is currently set up as a gravel bike. Now in between I bought a mountain bike after my wife and I had kids, and I now have a tandem/triplet/quad convertible for towing kids around, and of course the wife and kids all have their own bikes so now we have a garage full of bikes, which doesn't actually feel all that convenient.

For myself, I wouldn't mind going down to just one bike (the Roadini) and maybe just have a couple of sets of wheels to swap around for different needs. Having fewer bikes to maintain is great.

[Nicolas H]

Piaw, I think you just proved my point. The idea of having one bike is eternally appealing to most people but our actions, for one reason or another, tend to run counter to that goal. Why? Because, I don't think you really want one bike lol. And there's nothing wrong with that :)

Thanks,

Nic

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[Patrick Moore]

The usual cycle goes like this: get disgusted with too many bikes; sell ‘em off and keep only the favorite; learn in 6 months that the favorite won’t do [insert special riding conditions here] as well as x or y, so buy a replacement or several.

Me, I don’t like excess, which is why I’ve decided that 3 bikes is the natural if not statutory minimum: road bike that is equipped to pedal as easily and comfortably and fast as possible on pavement; a road bike with carrying capacity, fenders, lights, and tires that can handle light dirt; and a dirt road bike that is nice on pavement. On this foundation you can expand in any direction you care to.

This scenario avoids the “perfect bike” syndrome — unattractive, I agree —  by having 3 perfect bikes.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Patrick Moore]

I sympathize with Piaw’s opinion; yes, maintaining just one bike is a relief; particularly if that bike is a fixed gear with just one brake — a big difference in maintenance! Heck, even IGH fixed hubs are a complication.

I tried the “one bike/many wheelsets” model 30 years ago and it didn’t work for me; I like riding a bike that is if not perfect for then at least very well adapted to the conditions. OTOH again, there was Jobst Brandt who didn’t let 28 mm tubulars and 5 or 6 speed freewheels stop him from riding everything.

Chacun(e) a son/sa gout(e). 

That said, if you held a gun to my head and said, “Choose ONE!”, I’d choose the gofast fixed gear and devise hacks for light off road and rain and loads and night riding.

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[Patrick Moore]

Speaking of underbiking — fixed gear on dirt (well, groomed dirt, but it’s still dirt, and it can handle light sand with the Naches Passes). 2-speed NOS 1937 Sturmey Archer TF hub, direct and 75% with hardly any lash! 76” and 57”.

[Brady Smith]

I've settled on five as my ideal stable: 

1) E-cargo bike. It's a car replacement. Gets the most miles of any bike. 

2) My Roadini as general road bike. 

3) BMC Monster Cross as rando/light touring bike

4) La Cabra--in theory it's my gravel/forest road bike but practically it's my city bike when I'm riding with my child or want to carry stuff without e-assist. There's also a few mixed surface rides in my area for which it is pretty much perfect.

5) Specialized Fuse Comp: I tried to make singletrack work on the La Cabra for a while. It was fine, but this is much better. Plus I got it for 50% off. 

I could let the La Cabra go and still be fine, but it's a fun bike for what it is, and it adds a backup if for some reason the Fuse goes down. I've occasionally thought about a modern carbon road bike as I get more into the local club scene, but I keep up just fine on the Roadini, and other riders are always checking it out, which I enjoy. Other than the cargo bike, I tend to use each of these very seasonally, so maintenance is rarely an issue for more than two bikes at a time. 

[ascpgh]

I too abide with a simple stable. I have a road bike that's proven able to leave the pavement, another bike built intentionally for any road or path and an unattractive rackbait commuter. I've been happily riding along with each in their places.

My satisfaction with my Disc Trucker as a commuter is wearing thin while riding through a year long utility renovation destruction / reconstruction project including the last mile and a half of my commute to work. The utility has be allowed to get away with leaving an utter moonscape of a lane. It looks scary in the dark with deep humps and undulations but thankfully few if any edge drops risky to tubes and rims.

That ride is so jarring that getting through it is a relief. Wednesday I took a lateral jerk through my bike that impinged my left Sciatic nerve and made my day a huge unresolvable pain. I do ride through that mostly out of the saddle to suspend myself but between pulses of dense traffic released by stoplights and the intermittent construction equipment and trucks at the curb I was less attuned to the exact wheel path of my wheels and staying alert so as not to not be pushed out of lane and trapped at the curb when coming to an obstructing vehicle. 

My first experienced negative of this commuter in my use. I long appreciated under biking because I am not hard on equipment and appreciated riding my RB-1 on 700 x 28s on gravel and dirt in the '80s-'90s for a more supple and accurate steering ride. I appreciated my MB-0's ride and steering acuity compared to all the riding brutality suspension forks being added to rigid geometry bikes were  introducing. I could pick my downhill lines so accurately to avoid tire and rim trashing bits and reach the bottom of downhills way ahed of newer riders on their suspension forks who were facilitated in slamming through any consequences of poorer line-picking on the way down.  They just sledge hammered their way down and got away with it because the forks travel. 

Skill may be equalled by equipment advances and some never having the opportunity to learn them because of it but they are not replaced if they matter to you and are rewarding to retain and practice. I'm still happy with my stable of three and will alter my riding to accommodate the commute since it isn't to the point of riding another bike. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[John Dewey]

I, too, think five is an ideal, manageable number so I’ve been settled on it for quite some time as well. 

That said, there remains an inclination to hoard spare mechanicals to keep them running, however, so I am not completely off the hook. A bit of the hoarding instinct I’ve embraced. If you’re patient and keep looking you can pick up the good stuff—known as NOS—our favorite acronym. 

And all but one are 9-speed so that keeps things simple. I found a guy quite a while ago now who had a seemingly bottomless supply of low-normal 9-speed derailers…so I kept buying. It got a little out of hand but that’s OK. I enjoy taking inventory and oogling over the results of my obsessions. These days most bike dealers are of no use to me, so I take care of myself.

I do, however, pine for the days we could pop into  the local shop to survey the beautiful, colorful steel hanging from the rafters and all those Campy boxes with the world stripes neatly inventoried. Not many of these around any more. Andy Muzi’s Yellow Jersey in Madison WI was one I could never pass by without stopping. 

Fortunately there’s a shop nearby that still comes close. The owner has a thing for titanium so he has a stunning collection (for sale) of obscure quirky bespoke ti bikes with wide tires, fenders and all the trimmings. As that does raise my blood pressure in a most enjoyable way I always drop in when I happen to ride by. 

Jock

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[Jay]

I finally got to take the Roadini for a spin on my local trails, some of them anyways.

It has been cold recently and the snow and ice on the trail was pervasive.  One or two rain falls and some warmer temps in the last 5-10 days, and with today being over 20C, I finally got to give this a go.  I dropped pressure on the 43mm GKSS down to 30R and 28F (I'm 160lbs).  90% of the ride was on the trails.  I really noticed the difference with the lower pressure, from say 35-40psi which I would normally run these tires when 90% paved.  It made the ride very smooth (not 2.2" tire smooth).  What was great was the comfort on the bike; riding trails only took a little of that away with the extra upper body effort required and more climbs/descents and posture that I don't often use on paved surfaces.  I was surprised that the braking was more than adequate, and really enjoy being in the drops on descents for extra control.  The tires were probably the only downside, partly due to my lack of skill.  I had a bit of a rear-tire slide a couple of times on slick turns, but once I realized it was happening I rode more cautiously rest of the time.  I think with 42-45 aggressive tread this bike would be more than capable for the trails in my area.

P.S. one of my other posts is about alt/swept bars that I'm putting on my Salsa Fargo.  I look forward to comparing performance between the bikes, and comfort (on these trails).

[Jay]

I've now had two mixed surface rides with the Roadini, with a nice dash of trails thrown in (which is my favourite type of ride BTW).  If I take it slow, the Roadini with its 43mm slick tires is fine; fun, actually.  On the same day though I took out my Fargo with its Alt bars, 2.2" tires, and it was night-and-day.  I can fly with the Fargo, corner hard with a lot of confidence.  I could not do that with the Roadini (with my skills, or lack thereof).  What's great though, is that on the Roadini I can ride almost anywhere, comfortably as I'm alternating between paved, unpaved, which is a lot of fun.  When I want to hit my local trails (90% unpaved), I would definitely reach for the Fargo.

[Dan]

I share your thoughts Jay. I took my Roadini on a mostly-road ride today, but mixed in some mellow gravel trails and singletrack. The bike is unperturbed. Is it a mountain bike? No. But it can go anywhere. I'm reminded of some words by Will from Riv where he said the Roadini opened up his riding to be able to take the singletrack shortcut to bypass a busy road, etc. It's true.

I recently read an old Riv Reader (from 2005 or so) where they introduced the concept of 'Country Bikes'. I think the current Roadini with its wider tyre clearance fits the description to a tee, and looks very much like the Saluki they used to illustrate the concept. Sure, with the proliferation of gravel bikes today, the idea of a 'country bike' as a category has become reality. But by 2005 standards, I'd say the current Roadini is a country bike. The world hasn't changed that much since then - just our perceptions of it and what we think is necessary.

[dane...@gmail.com]

I was riding my Roadini down a muddy double track with some rocky sections yesterday with 32s and was also surprised by how smooth it felt.  I'm chalking it up to the fork flex.  I go back and forth but Ive been really enjoying riding everything with the skinnier tires.  

Nice fixed gear Patrick.  I'm building something up somewhat similar for as cheap as possible soon.  I miss riding fixed. 

-Dan

[Nicolas H]

What brakes are you guys using? I've got some Tektro R559 on now with the kool stop pads which seem to be great so far but curious what a bigger upgrade would look like since I've been wanting to push the Roadini.

Thanks,

Nic

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[Nicholas A]

I have Dia Compe long reachers on my Homer, I think they're for all intents and purposes the same as the R559, have Kool Stop pads on them too.

I find them pretty good, I think for any major upgrade to the performance you'd have to go to the Paul Racer which are a pretty penny.

The only time I'd find them inadequate would be descending steep off road stuff in the rain, in which case you can generally just take a different route and hey presto no problem. 

[ascpgh]

Nic,

Not Roadini, but my Rambouillet after trying various pads to optimize the moderate reach Shimano dual pivot calipers' braking that came on it I popped for the Paul Racers. 

A descent in the pouring rain changed my mind about expense as my levers were against the handlebars with orange Kool Stop pads on the rims but was in no way able to stop at a stop sign. Thankfully no cross traffic and a long run out at the bottom of the grade. That's what it took to realize how much caliper arm flex was possible as I tried to make more friction with the rim in the wet conditions. 

Yes the Racers were dear but it was the perfect prescription for what was designed as a sport touring/randonneur-inspired "road" bike that I ride in many environments and conditions. Best part was being able to speak to Paul Price at the Phily Bike Expo after riding with his brakes for a season and give him my kudos directly.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[dane...@gmail.com]

I have the tektro 559's on mines.  With Kool Stop pads swapped in.  Work fine for me.  Curious how much better the Pauls would actually work.

-Dan