FS: Rivendell Inspired Ibisu

[Ken Yokanovich]

Brand new un-ridden Ebisu all-purpose frame, fork, and custom front rack $2,850

Chain slap guard, internal wiring for dynamo, fender mounts, and accommodations for wide 700c tires.

Size information: Seat tube 56.5cm center-to-center, Top tube 56cm, Standover height 82.5cm with a 700c x 44mm tire. 130mm rear spacing.

The seller is my brother and avid Rivendell enthusiast / multiple Rivendell bike owner.  In fact, I think that is why the bar is set so high (pardon the pun) and the reason behind the sale.  The newly ordered frame is too small, particularly compared with the fit of his other bikes. I'd be all about buying instead of sharing if we weren't almost identically sized :D

More photos and details can be found in the Craigslist listing here:

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/bik/d/stillwater-2024-ebisu-all-purpose-frame/7759855686.html

[Bill Lindsay]

Golly that's gorgeous and kind of heartbreaking, the thought of ordering a custom Ebisu and it doesn't fit.  Were mistakes made on the front end?  Ordering the wrong dimensions?  

Since it was acquired recently, what was the turnaround time?  A year?  Less?  More?  I ride by the shop frequently and think about getting a custom built...

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[dylan green]

I've heard of this with Ebisu's before. Recently spoke with someone who's arrived missing braze-ons. Hiroshi is definitely an interesting guy and knows his stuff. Natsumi is the best though. 

Bill - current lead time I believe is quoted at 6 months but I believe it shows up a little sooner. 

[Jerry Lynn]

My Ebisu "All-Purpose" 650B/Molteni orange arrived 3 weeks ago - lead time was a hair under 2 months.

[ian m]

Dreamy

[Ken Yokanovich]

Heartbreaking, yes. I was so excited for my brother when he texted that his new frame was supposed to arrive. We generally talk several times a week and seldom about much more than bikes, bike parts, bike rides, and bike projects. Yes, it's definitely a "First-World" problem, but I was really upsetting to hear him so disappointed.

Careful measurements of several most-comfortable reference bikes including two different 58cm Rivendell Atlantis and a 54cm Rivendell Sam Hillborne were supplied.I think the difference between expectation and reality was a result of different philosophies in how a bike should fit.  I don't think it's fair to dictate to a builder "this is how you should make my bike."

I had a very similar experience years ago when I ordered a custom Waterford touring frame.  At the time, almost every professional bike fitter that I worked with said I should be on a 56 or maybe a 58cm frame. When I worked with Grant on the order of my first custom, I was floored by the idea that he was designing a 60cm frame for me. My Waterford was beautiful and I tried to make it work for years before eventually setting up a 61cm Atlantis. 

Turn around time: it's been about 3 months since my brother shared the news that he had ordered the Ebisu. He's a very humble guy (one of the many things I love about him) and doesn't like to brag about acquisitions. So, I'd imagine one could pad that time a bit depending. 

[John Dewey]

Yikes, happy Mr. Imura is busy and grateful I had mine built five years ago. Dumb luck, too, I suppose as the E was delivered to me in Athens GA @ wait time about five weeks. I got similarly lucky once with a JB respray, as well. 

So I quit while I was ahead. Altho I suppose we ought to learn ‘never say never’ right?

JD

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[Max S]

Sad. Ebisu are my faves. Was this by chance a mis-understanding of a C-C vs. C-T type of measurement?.. 

- Max "fishy gods" in A2

[Ryan]

That is a lovely frame...very clean and understated. It's too bad it didn't fit. Wonder what the story is...confusion about how frame size is measured like @Max suggests? You would think for a custom frame , given some objective measurements like PBH, Ibisu should be able to nail the size exactly rather than selecting the optimum size from a couple of production sizes; the subject of many posts on this forum. 

[Brian Turner]

This may be a stupid question, so if I'm way off, I'm hoping someone here will enlighten me. Regarding the difference in c-c vs. c-t, wouldn't that difference be somewhat nominal given the latitude we are used to with a lot of Rivendell frame sizes? I mean, unless we're talking about a frame with a sloping top tube, wouldn't that only be 1 to 1.5 cm difference for a frame with a traditional mostly horizontal top tube? It seems to me if I could ride both a 51cm and a 54cm Sam Hillborne by altering my cockpit setup slightly, measuring c-t vs. c-c would not factor much into the overall fit... but again, I could be way off base in my understanding.

Brian

Lex KY

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[Bill Lindsay]

Brian

It's not a stupid question and you are right that c-to-c vs c-to-t is just a 1.5cm difference.  I think Ken answered at the top that there is a significant difference in fit philosophy between Iimura-san and Rivendell.  They provided Iimura-san some measurements and Iimura-san designed a bike that "fits" according to Iimura-san.  Somebody who is habituated to a Riv-fit may find that fit sort of tiny.  The OP Ken reported a similar story with other traditional fitters and his Waterford.  It's just different philosophies.  

Ken also stated the opinion that we customers should not prescribe to bike designers how to design a bike.  Some customers think that's the definition of a custom.  I'm going to specify every single thing.  The middle ground, I think, is Stack and Reach.  If Ken's brother had only given Iimura-san the Stack and Reach numbers he was after, then I think the frame would have been quite a bit bigger.  The setup would have been a French looking "fist-of-seatpost", but would have fit great.  My own Ebisu (second-hand) is big.  Here are three bikes that fit me and have similar Stack and Reach:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/13016460295/in/photolist-kxtPZa-kQdGgx-kQdLae-kQfyiU-21SYx66-7pi77s-83uZiE-8v5RMV-2jzMoAM-2p1fwnV-oQfqiq-7peeRR-7pefcB-7pi6Dm-7pi6HG-7pi71o-8nSHbN-8pbMo7-95X2JT-9616Gj

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/50088245203/in/photolist-2jj8mfx-2mbbZta-9cx96S

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53117530540/in/photolist-2oVPef5-2pHGgUk-2pHGgYZ

They all look a lot different.  The point is that a level top tube bike to fit like a Rivendell has to be pretty large and have a lot less standover.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA