Mystery bike in April Blahg

[masmojo]

Grant posted the drawing with no explanation and every time I look at it I scan the page looking for an explanation!? AND Nobody has mentioned anything about it . . .
So . . . here I go . . .
Looks like the Gus Boots in side profile, until you realize it's got a twin curved top tube? Is it possible this is the "anniversary" bike?
Kinda what the internet calls an "Easter egg" these dayz? Maybe?

[masmojo]

Interestingly, the file name for that is F25for_blahg_grande which kind of confirms my suspicions.

[Garth]

There was some about it here .... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rbw-owners-bunch/Ya-zjaUyqcw/FtFuGNm1AgAJ .

[masmojo]

I didn't really read those thumbnails before, because (at least on my computer) the photos & attachments are never "clickable", in other words I can't pull them out & enbiggen them to read them without enlarging the whole web page.
If you follow the copy down the rabbit hole it does mention 2 (or 3?) Other bikes!? Seems ambitious! Still, the double toptube mixte would seem to be the fabled 25 anniversary bike.
Fingers crossed!

[Garth]

The general idea is that this is referring to a male and female version of the Hilly Bike, like the Betty/Gomez and Clem/Clementine-His/Ladies.  Yes, the other frame likely the Anniversary one.  

 

My own comment about the male/female names.... It's a darn shame Riv caved in for whatever reason and changed Clementine to Clem-L. Clementine was and is the best name ever for that bike. Oh m' darlin' Clementine .... where art thou m' darlin' Clementine ? !    There's no polite way to say it.....Clem-L just plain sucks !  Ahahahahaaha ! 

I don't know what kind of device you're viewing on, but it sounds as if you are using a mobile device with a browser that either doesn't have text reflow (rearranges the text as you make the page larger/smaller,) or it does have it and it's not turned on via the setting of that particular browser. Also, try switching between desktop and mobile versions of pages. 

[Deacon Patrick]

Aye, Garth. None of my lassies or wife wants a Clem L, but they all want a Clementine. So far, the 3/5th of them that have a Rivendell (because they're old enough to fit the medium, which is likely their adult size), have Clementines. They'd rather buy a used Clementine than a new Clem L.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Agree. Would not be a lot to ask for just one bike model to be named after a woman. But, hope springs eternal - maybe the Anniversary Mixte will have a feminine name! My hopes are so high for this bike. I should probably settle down until I actually have some cold, hard facts.

I am pulling for fat tires, step-through top tubes, Rivendell head badge, fancy lugs, and red paint with cream accents. Hey, even nobodies like me can have wish lists, right?
😬

[John McBurney]

How about Gold berry? 

John

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 11:35 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agree. Would not be a lot to ask for just one bike model to be named after a woman. But, hope springs eternal - maybe the Anniversary Mixte will have a feminine name! My hopes are so high for this bike. I should probably settle down until I actually have some cold, hard facts.

I am pulling for fat tires, step-through top tubes, Rivendell head badge, fancy lugs, and red paint with cream accents. Hey, even nobodies like me can have wish lists, right?
😬

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[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I was greatly tempted to buy one of the last remaining decal-less green 65cm Clem H frames and choose the over clear coat Clementine decals as a complement to my mustard Clem Smith Jr. badged 65cm Clem H. Unfortunately that was simply too indulgent and I just couldn’t (and still can’t) justify the expense for a duplicate frame.

Brian Cole

[Joe Bernard]

I believe the Anniversary Bike will be labeled Rivendell. I vote for a small additional Bicycle Belle Ding Ding decal!

[Leah Peterson]

LOL, Joe! Will never happen but it’s funny to imagine.

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 8:58 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I believe the Anniversary Bike will be labeled Rivendell. I vote for a small additional Bicycle Belle Ding Ding decal!
>

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[Garth]

Of course you can wish .... and let it be known ! 

I really LOVE bikes that have distinctive color.  When the 64 Clem-L came out (it's hard to even say that silly name, it's like naming your daughter Pete-L !) .... when I saw it was colored Grilver.... my heart sank to the floor.  It was like offering the Coookie Monster a box of plain ol' crackers . Not num num !  The heart wants what the heart wants .... and and all "reasoning" is powerless in It's Presence .

Of course it coulda been repainted Orange or whatever and renamed Clementine but at a considerable extra expense with shipping. Nah !

[masmojo]

I have a Clementine & of any issues I might have with it, the name is not one of them. But, then again the first bike I ever got new, was a Royce Union 3speed in a ladies step through! My friends made fun of me for a week or so, but I could wup any of them on their Stingrays in a race, so that diffused a lot of their comments.

To a Rivendell enthusiast the names are just what they are, but I did get a bit of pause from the police officer when I told him the name of my stolen bike was a Rosco Bubbe.

The average Joe is going to assume a girls name on a step through frame denotes a ladies bike. When the giant Clem L's came out I sent a link to my very tall friend; without even looking at the size he responded that his wife didn't need a new bike!

Preconceptions are hard to undermine.

[jandrews]

Regarding the names....In general , I find the gendered names of the frames a little annoying.  I always cringed that the earlier mixte was the Betty.   Applying masculine names to the other "normal" bikes is equally problematic.
I love the names Atlantis, Saluki, Cheviot, Hunqapillar, etc.   Love the name Appaloosa, I would be happier without the Joe in front.  Same goes for the Sam.

I think Clementine is an awesome name and I wish both the L and H were Clementines.

[Joe Bernard]

My super unpopular opinion: I wish they all were identifiable as Rivendells from across the street, and had the model name in small letters on the toptube.

[REC (Roberta)]

I have had a few people recognize it and comment "nice Riv," but I agree, from a marketing perspective. 

On one group ride, someone was admiring my bike saying how lovely it was and how much thought I must have put into each  detail  (the "thought" would have come from Rivendell and James from Analogue Cycles; the only thing I choose was the color of the bar tape).  He then said, ""Appaloosa???  I never heard of that company.  Good thing it isn't a Rivendell, because that would have made it more expensive." 

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 5:08:26 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

[Dave Small]

Dame Leah Belleding?  It sure beats Frank Jones Sr.  

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 11:34:59 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Leah Peterson]

Oh my gosh, Dave. 😂❤️

Sent from my iPad

--

[dougP]

Keep imagining.  Odd things can happen, and the RBWHQ seems to be pretty creative.  And by anyone's measure, you & your family qualify as Good Customers.

dougP

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 9:00:20 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

LOL, Joe! Will never happen but it’s funny to imagine.

> On Apr 25, 2019, at 8:58 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I believe the Anniversary Bike will be labeled Rivendell. I vote for a small additional Bicycle Belle Ding Ding decal!
>
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[Corwin]

I agree completely about Rivs wearing Rivendell decals. One of several reasons I got a custom instead of a Roadeo.

Namaste,

Corwin

[hugh flynn]

Meh. While I really enjoy Rivendell's approach to decal design and naming, I'd buy and ride them with no decals. Hell, I'd probably prefer it.

Love the headbadges though.

Hugh "A nice bike by any name would ride just as well" Flynn

Newburyport, MA

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Newburyport, MA

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

How long do you think before Rivendell lets us in on the details of the Anniversary Mixte? I’ve been planning out my new bike in my head and someone needs to hit me with a reality check soon, because I’ve had too much time to “decide” that this bike is going to be everything I want. The bike is red in my head and there has been ZERO hint of that from the drawing, ha. I’ve also decided to make it extremely expensive with dyno lighting and the new rumored basket rack and fancy new Backabike bags and alllllll the trimmings. I’ve also decided no one else should have my Betty and I should horde that bike, regardless of whether I even have room in the garage. I think I understand dragon sickness (see the Chronicles of Narnia).

Send help.
Leah

[dougP]

If it's going to be "extremely expensive" anyway, if the standard color is not to your liking, why not see what Rivendell can do about a custom paint job? 

dougP

[sameness]

Based on nothing but a hunch, I'd bet it will be That Blue.

Also, weren't you just at WCHQ? Why didn't you grab the man himself by the hobo bandana scruff and commence inquisition mode?

Jeff Hagedorn

Los Angeles, CA USA

[Joe Bernard]

Hehe, I'm fairly certain Our Leah got as much out of the Riv crew as they were willing to give up at the moment 😉

I also suggested custom paint from Rick at D&D if it comes to that. And it may for me: That young lady has got me so spun up for The Perfect Anniversary Mixte In Red that I think I will be in shock if it shows up in any other color. It must me Bicycle Belle Red!

[Leah Peterson]

Ha ha, I did get to visit with the powers that be at RBW just a bit. I didn’t want to push so I didn’t ask enough questions and then I was interrupted by exuberant family members (“What color bike should I get?!? 🙄) so IG was hard to complete a thought. Red did not seem to be the preferred color, however...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hehe, I'm fairly certain Our Leah got as much out of the Riv crew as they were willing to give up at the moment 😉
>
> I also suggested custom paint from Rick at D&D if it comes to that. And it may for me: That young lady has got me so spun up for The Perfect Anniversary Mixte In Red that I think I will be in shock if it shows up in any other color. It must me Bicycle Belle Red!
>

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[Leah Peterson]

* it not IG

Sent from my iPhone

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Also, someone tell the folks in charge that we want an inconspicuous decal that says, “One Bike To Rule Them All.” 😬

[Wally Estrella]

Adding a dynohub just makes it extremely more useful.  I was indecisive for years on getting a dynohub set-up.  I've literally lost as many lights on the trail and to aged batteries than I have into a laced up dynohub.   After the first night ride out I was so glad for the purchase.  No worries to ensure lights get charged, lights then get put on to the bike or in bag.  Also, I'm often out for hours on the trail (or road) in the dark.  Having something that burns out after 1.5-2 hours versus something that just keeping burning the light wins it for me.

It seems you are as excited for this new anniversary bike as I am for a GBW production to be announced! 

[ted]

Hear, hear. Outside of commuting I rarely if ever ride in the dusk or dark, and before I got a dyno setup I thought dealing with recharging batteries wasn’t a big deal. But when I got the dyno, who boy that’s just fantastic. Some of the best money I’ve ever spent.
If you ride when lights are appropriate hardly at all, I strongly recommend a dyno hub with front and rear lights (I particularly like the b&m line tail light).

[REC (Roberta)]

I don't ride too much in the dark these days, but I do it as it gets dark to the end of my ride.  I currently use USB rechargeables. I remember in college having a light generator that looked like an old soda bottle.  I flipped it down for contact on the wheel to generate the light.  I did like that, because in college I rode in the dark a lot.

How much weight do dyno lights add?  I'm already struggling with the weight of my Appaloosa with accessories when I need to lift and carry it.

Roberta

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 11:27:20 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

The entirely surprising thing I've found with having front and rear dyno lighting on my Atlantis is I really like having daytime running lights. I bought the bike as a demo from Analog Cycles and didn't have a choice about the lights; I wanted THAT bike and that's what was on it. My schedule currently doesn't permit night riding so I figured I'd have no use for the dyno, but I use it all the time.

[ted]

I’ve never gone through a careful weight comparison of dyno vs battery light systems but I’d guestmate a wash or slightly lighter for the dyno setup. A dyno hub is a bit heavier than a regular one, but the dyno lights having no batteries are very light. Probably depend on how bright the battery lights you would use are and what run time (ie battery size) they have.

[Mark Anderson]

Neither the Clem-L, nor the Clem-H isn't a Clementine.  Clem is just as good a hypocorism for Clementine as it is for Clement.

Mark Anderson

[maxcr]

I agree, dynohubs are money well spent.

This is from an exchange I had with James @ Analog Cycles regarding weight, here's what he said:

"Out of curiosity, I weighed both systems.

I put a standard front hub, good  rechargeable headlight, and battery powered tail light on the postal scale.  17 oz.  

I put a Schmidt hub and headlight and wired schmidt tail light on the same scale.  17.5 oz.  

So the Dynamo is heavier...by half an ounce!   But... ya never run out of batteries."

Max

[REC (Roberta)]

Wow, thank you!

I thought the Dyno setup would be pounds, not just an ounce, heavier.  I just weighed my USB headlight and it is 2.8 oz on the postal scale. 

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

I'm curious how much lighter the Schmidt hub is than the common Shimano ones. I pulled my Schmidt wheel off recently (Cliffhanger rim) and was startled by how light it is.

[Steve Palincsar]

SONDelux SL= 412 gm   (per Rene Herse site)

shimano XT Dyno Hub DH-T8000-3D the lightest dyno-hub Shimano makes, by about 100gm weighs 485 g

https://www.rivbike.com/products/shimano-dyno-hub-dh-3n80-18200

On 4/29/19 1:47 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

I'm curious how much lighter the Schmidt hub is than the common Shimano ones. I pulled my Schmidt  wheel off recently (Cliffhanger rim) and was startled by how light it is. 

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[masmojo]

It's gotten to the point I almost never do a build without a dynamo. I started using them several years ago and with the lightness of the new hubs and the brightness of the new LED lights it's really a nobrainer.
I run my lights all the time & I never realized how huge of a difference it made until the first time I rode without one. Suddenly, people were pulling out right in front of me or cutting me off. I thought I was just having a bad day, until I got to work & realized "No light!"

[John McBurney]

I agree, running a light in the daytime front and rear has meant fewer encounters with motorists. I have a dynamo only on the Bombadil but I really like it. My new Bush and Mueller IQ-X is always on I don’t have to think about it. I du have a rear light hooked up too but also run a bright 100 lumen daytime flasher on the rear. 

I have done a lot of night riding both road group rides, mountain biking including 24 hour races and commuting. My first light - a Night Sun Team - back in the early 90s was such a revelation. We lived in the Puget Sound area and the winter days are so short. Being able to ride at night was life changing. Since them I’ve gone through multiple iterations of most all the major manufactures lights and ever improving batteries. 

I have been skeptical about claims that the beam pattern of dynamo lights make them more effective. No more. The IQ-X is dramatically more effective than my brightest 1000 lumen light, partly because it doesn’t scatter light in my eyes, killing my night vision. I used to run a main light on the bike and a helmet light to be able to see to the sides. I don’t feel the need to as I no longer feel trapped in a light tunnel. 

John 

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:47 PM masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

It's gotten to the point I almost never do a build without a dynamo. I started using them several years ago and with the lightness of the new hubs and the brightness of the new LED lights it's really a nobrainer.
I run my lights all the time & I never realized how huge of a difference it made until the first time I rode without one. Suddenly,  people were pulling out right in front of me or cutting me off. I thought I was just having a bad day, until I got to work & realized "No light!"

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Batteries are disheartening. I don’t know much else about dyno, but I don’t like batteries. If I understand correctly, YOU are the battery of a dyno, yes?

Roberta, you’ll have to share everything you learn if you get dyno before I do!

I think the description of how I like my bike set up is: CAPABLE. Ready for anything. I never want to worry about not having lights or not being able to carry something or having to compromise or settle. My End of the World Bike: Ready. Smart. And darn pretty.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/29/19 3:15 PM, John McBurney wrote:
> I agree, running a light in the daytime front and rear has meant fewer
> encounters with motorists. I have a dynamo only on the Bombadil but I
> really like it. My new Bush and Mueller IQ-X is always on I don’t have
> to think about it. I du have a rear light hooked up too but also run a
> bright 100 lumen daytime flasher on the rear.
>
> I have done a lot of night riding both road group rides, mountain
> biking including 24 hour races and commuting. My first light - a Night
> Sun Team - back in the early 90s was such a revelation. We lived in
> the Puget Sound area and the winter days are so short. Being able to
> ride at night was life changing. Since them I’ve gone through multiple
> iterations of most all the major manufactures lights and ever
> improving batteries.
>
> I have been skeptical about claims that the beam pattern of dynamo
> lights make them more effective. No more. The IQ-X is dramatically
> more effective than my brightest 1000 lumen light, partly because it
> doesn’t scatter light in my eyes, killing my night vision. I used to
> run a main light on the bike and a helmet light to be able to see to
> the sides. I don’t feel the need to as I no longer feel trapped in a
> light tunnel.
>
>

Many so called modern innovations really don't amount to anything very
much beyond marketing, but lighting is a different story. The
improvements in just the past 12 years in LED lights vs the best of the
old halogen lights are dramatic.  The hubs have gotten better too.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/29/19 3:19 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
> Batteries are disheartening. I don’t know much else about dyno, but I don’t like batteries. If I understand correctly, YOU are the battery of a dyno, yes?

You are the power source.  The closest thing to a battery on a dynamo
system is the standlight capacitor.  Battery stores charge, dissipates
it over time, eventually dies - faster in the cold. Generator makes
power as you go; run time is infinite, limited only by the rider, and
temperature insensitive.  Also, as batteries age they lose capacity, so
the system that this year may be good for 4 commutes in 3 years may dim
out after 3 1/2.  And you never have to remember in advance with a
generator system to charge it to get ready for use.  You forget you even
have a dynamo system until you need it, at which point you flip a switch
and there it is.

> Roberta, you’ll have to share everything you learn if you get dyno before I do!
>
> I think the description of how I like my bike set up is: CAPABLE. Ready for anything. I never want to worry about not having lights or not being able to carry something or having to compromise or settle. My End of the World Bike: Ready. Smart. And darn pretty.

Then a dynamo system is totally in line with your philosophy.

[Wally Estrella]

Capable? Ready for anything? INDEED!

My dynohub equipped Quickbeam would get me into Isengard then onto Mordor and beyond.  A dynohub and light is the Arkenstone for a bike.  Yes, even 'My Precious' of an item to have.

[Leah Peterson]

Wally. Oh my gosh. This is priceless - you nailed it! If I didn’t want it bad before, now that I know the Arkenstone could indeed by MINE, I must have My Precious!

And Steve - very enlightening description of dyno lighting! Thank you for that. 

Sent from my iPad

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[Deacon Patrick]

Anyone have experience with a dyno set-up on a rig that frequents jouncy singletrack who can report to the bomb-proofness on stupid stuff, not just over a ride or two but several years, thorough all types of weather, muck, mud splat, snow sludge, et al?

With abandon,
Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

Dyno lights typically don't have a beam suitable for singletrack.

[Deacon Patrick]

Good point, Steve. I'm not looking to night ride single track with a dyno, but to have it for day running lights on all the other bits.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Steve Palincsar]

But in view of that fact, I think maybe it's unlikely there's much of a base of experience.

[maxcr]

Deacon Patrick, check out

https://www.sinewavecycles.com/products/sinewave-cycles-beacon

Pricey, but supposedly bomb proof and musa :)

[Joe Bernard]

Maybe James or Candice from Analog can chime in here. They sold me the dyno-ed Atlantis and seem to ride primarily dirt roads; they should be able to vouch for how this stuff works on the bouncy bits.

[Fullylugged]

Hugh:

I know exactly what you mean.  What do you think of this headbadged but undecaled example?

Bruce

On Sunday, April 28, 2019 at 7:42:09 AM UTC-5, Hugh Flynn wrote:

Meh. While I really enjoy Rivendell's approach to decal design and naming, I'd buy and ride them with no decals. Hell, I'd probably prefer it.

Love the headbadges though.

Hugh "A nice bike by any name would ride just as well" Flynn

Newburyport, MA

On Sun, Apr 28, 2019 at 1:55 AM Corwin <ern...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree completely about Rivs wearing Rivendell decals. One of several reasons I got a custom instead of a Roadeo.

Namaste,

Corwin

On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 2:08:26 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

My super unpopular opinion: I wish they all were identifiable as Rivendells from across the street, and had the model name in small letters on the toptube.

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[Patrick Moore]

K-Lite.

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[hugh flynn]

Yup. Just like that! 

Don't get me wrong, I really do love the work, thought, and design that goes into Riv names and decals, but in the end, for me, it's the bike that matters.

Ok, AND the lugs and paint :-)

Hugh 

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[Mark in Beacon]

For me, for better or worse, the decals and the model name and other possible flourishes are part and parcel of the bike. Clem's wouldn't be quite so klemish without that guy coming out of the manhole cover. Orosco pub has a cool head badge and a cool name, etc. (I left the voice recognition software interpretation of what I said. I think most will guess what model I was talking about!)

[Eric Daume]

And for single track I really want a helmet mounted light anyway. Not being able to look around corners is frightening. 

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[John McBurney]

I was really thinking about gravel riding where you might encounter occasional stretches of single track and when you might need to push into the night to make a goal, make up for lost time,  get back on schedule. When I was doing 24 hour MTB races I thought it was important to have the main light on the bike so you could see where you are headed and a smaller helmet light to look into turns. It’s great if you can recharge or stop after a lap and change batteries. In a multi day bikepacking adventure battery capacity, battery weight and recharging are issues. 

FWIW the bikepackers on FB are running dynamo systems. The leading edge systems charge batteries that run lights and recharge devices. The best charge both from dynamo and solar. For straight dynamo systems the issue is lower power output below 10 mph. 

John

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 8:41 PM Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

And for single track I really want a helmet mounted light anyway. Not being able to look around corners is frightening. 

On Monday, April 29, 2019, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

Dyno lights typically don't have a beam suitable for singletrack.

On 4/29/19 3:50 PM, 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Anyone have experience with a dyno set-up on a rig that frequents jouncy singletrack who can report to the bomb-proofness on stupid stuff, not just over a ride or two but several years, thorough all types of weather, muck, mud splat, snow sludge, et al?

With abandon,
Patrick

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

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[hugh flynn]

I'm no knuckle-dragger, the headbadge is a must!

I get your point, and agree. The names and the decals are added fun. My point, quite simply, is that a good bike is a good bike with or without the name on the downtube. The obverse is true too, but that's a conversation for a different  forum. 

Hugh "            " Flynn

Newburyport, MA

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 7:41 PM 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

For me, for better or worse, the decals and the model name and other possible flourishes are part and parcel of the bike. Clem's wouldn't be quite so klemish without that guy coming out of the manhole cover. Orosco pub has a cool head badge and a cool name, etc. (I left the voice recognition software interpretation of what I said. I think most will guess what model I was talking about!)

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[ted]

DP asked :

Patrick, my experience doesn't take in the degree of difficulty yours does but ...

I did regularly commute over a mixed terrain route that for most of that time included some uneven bits (they did do some "maintenance" that smoothed out some bits before I retired and stopped commuting). I rode my fixed gear SimpleOne with 33mm tires pumped up moderately hard. The first really nice headlight I had was a B&M Ixon IQ that used AA rechargeable batteries. Sooner than I would have liked that light took leave of its mount on a rough bit. After retrieving it from the trail side I noted the slots on the base of the light that held it to the mount were busted up, apparently the result of abuse by excess pounding. I epoxied the light to the mount and continued to use it til I picked up a used son-dlx front wheel and went to dyno lights. I never ever had any trouble with the dyno stuff. I've also never read about anybody complaining about problems with a dyno system related to rough riding environments, though as Steve notes there may not be many (or any folks) mountain biking single track with dyno rigged bikes.

I doubt well know how a dyno system would hold up under your use cases unless you get one and test it out. I hope you decide to do so and let us know how it goes.

regards,

ted.

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I've had Shimano and SP hubs and ridden them in nasty bumpy gross goop for years. The light weight of the lamps makes them mostly stay put through the rough stuff, and the hubs keep rolling and sending out power no problems (knocking wood). Important would be to make your wire runs low profile and bash/tangle resistant. I've never understood the love of winding the wire around and around the rack struts. If said struts grind against some rock, I want metal on rock, not wire sandwiched between metal and rock. Lately I've been building my own racks with internal wiring to keep it safe at the bike rack and beyond, and modifying a nitto or tubus rack for internal runs isn't a huge deal so long as you're handy with a drill and thoughtful about hole placement. As for seeing, my nighttime single track riding has been mostly on trails I am fairly familiar with, so the lack of light leakage off to the sides and up isn't a huge issue, I actually like the spookiness of it. 

Get dynoed!

-Kai

[Deacon Patrick]

Ted, Kai, et al,

Yowza! At those prices I can ride a whole lotta daylight miles without a light. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[ted]

True dat.
Finding used gear to buy can help, but dyno == luxury == $$$
That said shaped beam lithium battery usb charging lights aren’t cheep either.
Daylight is indeed one of God’s great bargains.

[Jim A]

Generator lighting is expensive, but do any of you know anyone who has regretted it? I only hear glowing praise.

[Joe Bernard]

It's expensive, but it's on a vehicle most of us use every day. It's always there and it works.

[Madam Xylene]

All four of my bikes have dynamo hubs. When I got my Cheviot I initially had battery lights which were ok but I kept spacing out on recharging or being out later and darker than I planned. No worries with the dynamo AND it’s worth having lights and the extra visibility when riding in shady canyons during daytime. Even opted to have rear dynamo light.
Eileen

[Patrick Moore]

I much prefer dynamo hubs to any other system I've used, but others who don't want the cost or expense of dynamo hubs and who don't ride long distances at night might consider bottle and bb-area dynamos. I've only used (a) cheap Union and Sanyo bottles and (b) very expensive, top-end 12 v bottle. The former do indeed drag; consider that you are riding into a 12 mph headwind, or up a slight grade; gear down 1 tooth. The 12 volt dragged very little but is not relevant. The old Sanyo bb-area dynamos are still available from time to time on ebay and on lists and they drag less if you use a smooth tire. Both bottles and bb dynamos will power a modern led lamp very nicely; I used a bb dynamo on the folder until I finally swapped in a hub dynamo.

Velogical makes a rim-driven "bottle" that puts out less power but puts out enough for most modern LED headlights; and it is very light and drags little from what I have read.

Patrick Moore who has 3 bikes of 4 with hub dynamos but who is saving his bb generator just in case.

[Peter White]

Schmidt, Busch & Müller and Supernova all say that the Velogical dynamo should not be used with their lights and such use will void the warrantee on their lights. The Velogical produces too much power at high speeds and can damage lights built to work with normal dynamos such as the SON, Shimano, Panasonic, etc. 

Peter White

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Peter White

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Back to the Anniversary Mixte again. I have all these plans and ideas for/about this bike, and one of them was that a bunch of us could arrange to pick up our bikes on the same day and do a group ride and take group photos, and wouldn’t we be darling?

But it occurs to me that if out-of-staters pick up their bikes at Rivendell, we may have to pay CA sales tax. Does anyone know for sure? If I pay with my credit card via phone or website, and I pick up the bike in person, do I have to pay sales tax? That would be hundreds of dollars, I would imagine...

[REC]

If you purchase your bike or take delivery physically in ca you will need to pay sales tax. If you order it online and you have it ship to you, you will only pay sales tax if they have an employee in NV.

I cannot imagine you seeing and riding it in CA and not taking it with you when you’d leave! You’d have Mixte withdrawal symptoms for a week until it shows up in NV

I’d probably fly in to make my purchase decision and it would be so cool to go on rides with others from the board!!!!!! They would all come out to visit with you.

Roberta

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Back to the Anniversary Mixte again. I have all these plans and ideas for/about this bike, and one of them was that a bunch of us could arrange to pick up our bikes on the same day and do a group ride and take group photos, and wouldn’t we be darling?
>
> But it occurs to me that if out-of-staters pick up their bikes at Rivendell, we may have to pay CA sales tax. Does anyone know for sure? If I pay with my credit card via phone or website, and I pick up the bike in person, do I have to pay sales tax? That would be hundreds of dollars, I would imagine...
>

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[Abcyclehank]

Bicycle Belle Ding Dong (Leah),
I think you should put them all on your credit card, have them sent to your garage in Nevada. We can all show up with our cash to reimburse you; we will open them all together like it’s Xmas morning.
Next we can have an assembly party and give basic mechanical lessons to those interested; then we can ride your amazing hills and discuss how barre classes give you an unfair advantage. Then you can write your beautiful prose about these amazing true mixte bikes to make all those who don’t buy one or join us jealous like no other.
Just let us know the date!
Ryan “road trip ready” Hankinson
West Michigan

[Leah Peterson]

Ryan! You may have just arrived at the very best idea EVER. I’ve got room - ship all the Anniversary Mixtes to me! You guys will show me how to be a mechanic, then we will take our first ride on our fleet of AMs together. I will torture you on Killer Hill (pray it is not summer) and we will come home, you all can swim or soak in the spa and I’ll cook. At some point, coffee. For sure, dessert.

This lights up all the pleasure centers in my brain! Everyone will be interviewed. We will submit it for publication to the Rivendell Reader. We will start a revolution and red and cream Anniversary Mixtes will dot the US map. And NONE of us will pay sales tax.

I can see it. Surely it will work out.
Does Rivendell even read this stuff?
Leah

Sent from my iPad

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[Joe Bernard]

I'm down for this! I'll do that thing all mechanics do where I explain a thing with "You just do this and this, and it's all good", then Leah will look at me like, "Yeah that didn't make any sense at all." Hilarity will ensue! 🤣

[Leah Peterson]

Pretty much true. This might all be a ploy to get someone to put my bike together for me for free. 😬

Sent from my iPad

> On May 9, 2019, at 4:44 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm down for this! I'll do that thing all mechanics do where I explain a thing with "You just do this and this, and it's all good", then Leah will look at me like, "Yeah that didn't make any sense at all." Hilarity will ensue! 🤣
>

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[Leah Peterson]

Roberta, I’m sure you know, but is there really no loophole? NV billing address, paid over the internet but picked up in person - still stuck with the tax?

I cannot imagine making the trek to CA (it’s 9 hours to drive!) and not coming home with the AM either. It’s going to be pretty expensive though; I may need to forego the Riv experience and save like $500, plus travel expenses. But, it IS the Anniversary Bike, and maybe there’s an Anniversary Party, and can you really afford to miss THAT? Anyway, you and I are a pair. I’ll probably copy what you do. 😜

Sent from my iPad

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[REC (Roberta)]

I'm not an accountant and this is not accounting advice...  Perhaps there is a CA accountant here.  I work with accounting software, so it's not an unfamiliar topic to me and I'm not an expert, but then again, I'm not an accountant and this is not accounting advice...  :)

My understanding is that it is the delivery location and nexus (does the business has a presence in the delivery state?)  that determines the sales tax. 

I'll probably fly in, enjoy the party (hopefully we'd have one) and then have the bike sent to PA.  Or I'd buy it from the "sort of local" RIV dealer, 718 Cyclery, save the shipping but pay NY tax instead.  We could do a day trip from LV--it would be a short and I think inexpensive flight.  9 hour car trip is a LONG trip.  But, you think you'd be able to tear yourself away from your new baby to save $500?  I bet you could get them to ship your bike out right after you leave, so you wouldn't need to wait to long for the reunion.

No matter what you decide, it will be FUN, I'm sure!

[Mark in Beacon]

Tax rules for internet sales recently changed. From what I understand, in addition to collecting tax in our State, the company I work for has to collect sales tax in those States where our sales go beyond a certain set minimum--a minimum which is different for each State. Kind of a nightmare, but I suppose there is software that notifies you when you hit the limit, though not sure if you then still can wait till the following tax year. I doubt Riv sells enough bikes to Nevada to be a problem--that would take a lot of anniversary mixtes going to Reno.

(But you don't want to avoid all the tax, or your roads won't get paved!;^)

On Thursday, May 9, 2019 at 8:26:06 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Roberta, I’m sure you know, but is there really no loophole? NV billing address, paid over the internet but picked up in person - still stuck with the tax?

I cannot imagine making the trek to CA (it’s 9 hours to drive!) and not coming home with the AM either. It’s going to be pretty expensive though; I may need to forego the Riv experience and save like $500, plus travel expenses. But, it IS the Anniversary Bike, and maybe there’s an Anniversary Party, and can you really afford to miss THAT? Anyway, you and I are a pair. I’ll probably copy what you do. 😜

Sent from my iPad

> On May 9, 2019, at 2:04 PM, REC <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you purchase your bike or take delivery physically in ca you will need to pay sales tax. If you order it online and you have it ship to you, you will only pay sales tax if they have an employee in NV.
>
> I cannot imagine  you seeing and riding it in CA and not taking it with you when you’d leave!  You’d have Mixte withdrawal symptoms for a week until it shows up in NV
>
> I’d probably fly in to make my purchase decision and it would be so cool to go on rides with others from the board!!!!!!  They would all come out to visit with you.
>
> Roberta
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 9, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Back to the Anniversary Mixte again. I have all these plans and ideas for/about this bike, and one of them was that a bunch of us could arrange to pick up our bikes on the same day and do a group ride and take group photos, and wouldn’t we be darling?
>>
>> But it occurs to me that if out-of-staters pick up their bikes at Rivendell, we may have to pay CA sales tax. Does anyone know for sure? If I pay with my credit card via phone or website, and I pick up the bike in person, do I have to pay sales tax? That would be hundreds of dollars, I would imagine...
>>
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[Dave Small]

Hi Leah.  When I've traveled and bought stuff out of state, the rule has always been that if I take it with me, then I pay the tax, and if I have it shipped then I don't.  I doubt California would be any different.  It's always a question of how much to ship versus how much is the tax.  

I bought a bike once from an out-of-state dealer---my first Riv, in fact---and he was kind enough to drive it over the state line into my state so I could take delivery and not pay the tax.  Very kind of him.  I suggested that I pick it up from him in his state and we could say that he drove it over the line, but he wanted to do it the honest way.  Neither of those states was California, but again---I can't imagine that California would be any more lenient, although they might be stricter.  

Dave

[Leah Peterson]

There are enough of you that have the same understanding so I think it must be the bike should be shipped to avoid sales tax. But I like a combination of Roberta and Joe’s ideas - maybe a bunch of us can rendezvous at RBW for a party of some kind. We can ride our bikes, have a little jamboree with Listers, and board a plane and have our bikes shipped home. My understanding is it isn’t hard for Riv to ship a bike since it’s mostly assembled anyway. Roberta - there are very cheap flights from here to San Fran. Come see your sister and then the two of us will catch a flight to the Anniversary Mixte party that we have just invented. 

This makes me laugh. We have a slight hint of an anniversary bike of some kind on the horizon. Somehow, it has become a RED swoopy tubed mixte that we are all buying - sight unseen - and then there is going to be a fantastic gathering and riding ceremony where we will all swoop in and claim our special bikes at Riv’s HQ...which they know nothing about. Who needs marketing when you have customers with crazy ideas and overactive imaginations?

Sent from my iPad

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[David Bivins]

Think of it this way: if you go to another state and buy a widget, their tax will be on the receipt. There are exceptions (clothing under a certain amount in NYC for example), but it makes sense.

And Mark in Beacon makes an excellent point - the taxes may be helping Riv's home state. I'm in NY so I'm not familiar with the California budget, so let's not get political about it, because I can't hang.

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[Philip Williamson]

“Ready, smart, and darn pretty.” That’s my bike criteria too!
I have three dyno wheels and another hub in a box that I don’t even need. I’ve even turned the corner on battery taillights, but haven’t installed a dyno one yet. USB taillights fail me 5 or 8 times more often than a simple battery Pixeo. “Oh, they’re bright AF... YESTERDAY.”

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[James / Analog Cycles]

Late to the game here, but Sinewave headlights are perfectly suitable for singletrack use.  Combine with a Schmidt hub and you have a very reliable long term, hard wearing dynamo set up.  We use them on our bike packing mountain bikes.  Rock gardens, 2' deep puddles in class 4 roads, crashes off elevated bridges with a 30 lbs load, all fine.  

-James

On Wednesday, April 24, 2019 at 3:24:03 PM UTC-4, masmojo wrote:

Grant posted the drawing with no explanation and every time I look at it I scan the page looking for an explanation!? AND Nobody has mentioned anything about it .  . .
So . . . here I go . . .
Looks like the Gus Boots in side profile, until you realize it's got a twin curved top tube? Is it possible this is the "anniversary" bike?
Kinda what the internet calls an "Easter egg" these dayz? Maybe?