A23 vs. Synergy

[Brian Hanson]

Has anyone had a chance to build a wheel with the Velocity A23 rims vs. a Synergy rim?  I'm planning a front wheel SON wheel, and have been using Synergy rims to this point.  This will be for my Hilsen and will generally be pulling rando/road duty with Cypres or Jack Brown Greens.  

Brian

Seattle, WA

[Benz]

Hi Brian,

I've built up a set and a half of A23s and a couple of sets of Synergies. Both rim types are pretty straightforward to build and required similar amounts of attention to achieve the radial/lateral trueness. I build more for spoke tension evenness than rad/lat trueness and neither rims gave me problems other than the typical slight hop at the joint.

I prefer the Synergies because the available OC version reduces left/right spoke tension discrepancy thereby resulting in stronger rear wheels. Truthfully, I only ever had a rear wheel fail once in my entire cycling lifetime (>30 years), so this may be a technical advantage and not a practical one. The Synergies were also a tad easier to build due to the reduced turning friction from having eyelets (even if the spoke/nipple and nipple/spoke-bed interfaces were oiled). Finally, and this is very important for me, tires are significantly easier to mount on the Synergies than on the A23s, often not requiring any tire levers at all for the Synergies (e.g., for both the GB Cypres and JB Greens, with Veloplugs).

[Brian Hanson]

Thanks, Ben!  That's exactly what I was looking for.  I do love the ease of mounting tires on the Synergies.  I'll stick with what works.

Brian

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[SteveD]

That's an interesting point about mounting tires on the Synergy OC. I bought a Synergy OC rear from Riv last month. When I went to mount the tire on it, I was very pleased with how easy it was to get on the rim. Actually a little shocked, thinking that the wheel was actually a bit smaller than the new front because that tire took a little technique and muscle to get on.

-Steve
Seattle

[William]

I just built a set of 650B A23s a few months ago.  I built three sets of Synergies over the last few years.  I was expecting to have increased friction at the spoke to rim interface, because that's just what happens with non-eyeleted rims.  I was very pleasantly surprised at how little friction there was.  I really could tell the difference at all.  

Regarding tire mounting, I agree that Synergies are far easier.  I am used to mounting and removing 650B tires from Synergy rims with no levers.  In the 650B community, this is often considered a shortcoming, because it is quite common to have a very difficult time seating a wide 650B tire on a synergy rim.  This has been attributed to the very deep well of the Synergy rim.  Workarounds include using a lot more rim tape, lucking out, or just accepting a lumpy tire.  Some folklore has suggested that Velocity has had both undersized and oversized runs of these 650B rims.  

The A23 has a far shallower well at the bead and a deeper channel down the middle.  To mount tires with your hands, you really have to get the bead down in that middle channel.  The huge upside is that it is virtually impossible for the tire NOT to run true.  I set up my A23 650B wheelset tubeless, so I used the very thin Stan's tape, and I agree the tire went on far tighter than on Synergy's.  Still no problem with my bare hands.  I considered that a very good thing.  

None of the above comments have anything to do with 700C Velocity rims.  I've never built a wheelset or ridden on Velocity 700c rims of any model.  In 650B, I think the A23 is a really great alternative to the Synergy, but I think they are both nice rims.  

On Thursday, August 9, 2012 9:09:20 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA wrote:

[ted]

I have had good luck getting Quasi-Moto tires to seat evenly on
Synergies by pumping em up much harder than I would ride em and then
bouncing em on the patio.

[jeffrey kane]

I had a pair of A23/650b wheels built by Anthony at Longleaf in June this year. The Hetres and A23's are a hard fit ... first time I tried I really suffered. Then I used a little dish-soapy water along the rim and bead and overinflated them until I literally heard the bead "pop" into place. No problems so far, well over a few hundred miles later (but I'm wondering how this is going to play out along the side of the road one day).

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2012-08-10 at 10:04 -0700, jeffrey kane wrote:
> I had a pair of A23/650b wheels built by Anthony at Longleaf in June
> this year. The Hetres and A23's are a hard fit ... first time I tried
> I really suffered. Then I used a little dish-soapy water along the rim
> and bead and overinflated them until I literally heard the bead "pop"
> into place. No problems so far, well over a few hundred miles later
> (but I'm wondering how this is going to play out along the side of the
> road one day).

You might want to simulate that situation in your house, under
controlled conditions before that roadside flat happens. You might
learn that the bead has stretched enough to make remounting easy, or you
may learn you need to carry a small vial of soapy water with you.
Either way, it's better to not learn it out on the road.

[William]

I agree with Steve.  If you have to go through unusual machinations to get your tire mounted or seated properly, then imagine doing those things on the road.  To me, that's a big bummer.  That is precisely the reason I was looking for an alternative to Synergies.  For me, tires consistently run lumpy on those rims.  I get them good enough at home, but if I flat on a brevet, especially at night, I count on the tire running lumpy for the duration of the ride, which is a bummer.  Not fatal, but a bummer.  

A23 rims with the thinnnest rim tape you can get are significantly harder to get the tire on, but still doable with my bare hands.  It's impossible for me to get the tire off without a single tire lever, but I don't think that's bad.  The tire seats perfectly with just pressure.  

I'd speculate that the A23 rim with cloth rim tape might be too tight.  Too hard to get the tire on, and maybe too tight to get a good seat.  Cloth tape is a lot thicker than Stans yellow tape.  Could that be part of the problem?

[jeffrey kane]

Valid points, Steve.

I didn't exactly employ variable elimination when I tried the soapy water either ... meaning it was also the first time I got the bright idea to over inflate, too. Heck, I'm not even sure I could overinflate as much with my road pump as I can with the floor pump I keep at home.

The Hetres in question are around 18 months old now and have seen around 3000 or 4000 miles. There's a 1/2" wide smooth spot in the center of the rear that no longer shows ribbed tread (but the front looks pretty newish, still). I'm thinking about picking up a new tire and putting it up front and rotating the front to rear so I guess that "at home" test might just be on the horizon. 

[Bruce Herbitter]

If you can find them the Velocity 650B Aeroheads are not hard to mount tires on (mine have Maxy Fastys on) and feature the off center rear spoke pattern that folks like on Synergy rims.

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