Hozan Bottom Bracket Tapping Tool

[JohnS]

Anyone have experience with the Hozan BB tapping tool? My '82 Specialized Sequoia drive side treads have been cross threaded and need to be tapped. Park tool is too expensive for me. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354072136754?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110013%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIMRXI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D247483%26meid%3D265aab9e5c174a48a713dd81a11fcfd5%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D404170894444%26itm%3D354072136754%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPersonalizedV1_7%26brand%3DHOZAN&_trksid=p2047675.c101110.m2109&amdata=cksum%3A354072136754265aab9e5c174a48a713dd81a11fcfd5%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAAA8KvVpLM%252FL%252FYbyLgq7kTmGAaB383Ythl3%252BULNz4mWdQZjQUGEBVScEzldt9pDIEwjVC9sgwCeV0gMCq3ICdfjOxVov5C3psDxws5xIkFsJd%252Bofy%252FVssNxE9YaNOke2Niw2FTLCIMN3jpraIuhLLGVWQakcU7%252FnAeSW4OR0OgcLdP0nb94Y17R90GxjWo1PpW2LR2XFF5A4NVsqQlH2ZBBBTbJp2KMYAroLUIWVLPKGDkNuJgnWaX9dIe4yRn56VtU1hM99PVpuuDhd4m%252BuiA1R9j68SiVyItHNLsJfVSMlHG5JzoQ1Tddgih52SA1NrDosw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=5019983455

Thanks,

JohnS

[richd...@gmail.com]

How bad is it? Where are you located? Easier to get it done by a person who high quality taps and has done it a lot. Cheap taps are generally not worthwhile. If you are anywhere near Iowa, I’d do it for a coffee or maybe a craft beer!

Some  shops may have the better taps, but not the skill to do it well enough to help you. 

Another builder may charge $25-50 but well worth it vs buy iI UNI the taps. 

Rich-somewhere in the middle of Iowa. 

[Garth]

If you don't have the shop option, well join the club. Ever the diy'r myself, sure the Hozan taps will work and they are quality. While they don't have the handle to do both sides in parallel at the same time, as long as you know what you're doing the Hozan will work just fine. But still, mucho buckos for likely a single use... not so great of purchase.

Depending on what the extent of the thread wonkiness appears, the other more practical "use what's on hand" option is to make your own tap from existing steel BB cups. You basically use a dremel tool to cut some grooves into steel BB cups which will assist in straightening out the existing threads.

Two videos, one cycling BB specific, the other an auto mechanic. Both very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IrAGP22V34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RrLQY1PPaQ

[Eric Daume]

No experience with the taps, but in my experience I would pick a Hozan tool over a Park. Park tools just seem so-so to me. 

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[JohnS]

Rich, thank you for the offer, but I'm in eastern PA, so a road trip to mid-Iowa isn't in the cards.

Garth, thank you for the u2-video, that was very informative. I've got some extra BB cups that I can sacrifice to become tools, so I'll give that a try with a lot of caution.

Eric, I'll probably go with the Hozan tools if the home made version doesn't work out.

John

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:05:30 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

No experience with the taps, but in my experience I would pick a Hozan tool over a Park. Park tools just seem so-so to me. 

On Thursday, March 23, 2023, JohnS <shar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anyone have experience with the Hozan BB tapping tool? My '82 Specialized Sequoia drive side treads have been cross threaded and need to be tapped. Park tool is too expensive for me. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354072136754?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110013%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIMRXI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D247483%26meid%3D265aab9e5c174a48a713dd81a11fcfd5%26pid%3D101110%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D404170894444%26itm%3D354072136754%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DPersonalizedV1_7%26brand%3DHOZAN&_trksid=p2047675.c101110.m2109&amdata=cksum%3A354072136754265aab9e5c174a48a713dd81a11fcfd5%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAAA8KvVpLM%252FL%252FYbyLgq7kTmGAaB383Ythl3%252BULNz4mWdQZjQUGEBVScEzldt9pDIEwjVC9sgwCeV0gMCq3ICdfjOxVov5C3psDxws5xIkFsJd%252Bofy%252FVssNxE9YaNOke2Niw2FTLCIMN3jpraIuhLLGVWQakcU7%252FnAeSW4OR0OgcLdP0nb94Y17R90GxjWo1PpW2LR2XFF5A4NVsqQlH2ZBBBTbJp2KMYAroLUIWVLPKGDkNuJgnWaX9dIe4yRn56VtU1hM99PVpuuDhd4m%252BuiA1R9j68SiVyItHNLsJfVSMlHG5JzoQ1Tddgih52SA1NrDosw%253D%253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675&epid=5019983455

Thanks,

JohnS

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[Jeffrey Arita]

JohnS: Sorry, late to the party: yes, I've got a set of the Hozan's you mention.  They've worked well in many BB shells (I've caught and released a fair number of frames).  Yes, they aren't cheap but they do the job.  I was advised to use Tap Magic PROTAP cutting fluid whenever using taps/dies by folks on the iBobs.

I've found some BB shells to be ever so slightly undersized, while others simply have some grease/crap/corrosion in the threads.  Just 3 days ago I bought an old Trek Multitrack bike (I think '96 MUSA frameset).  Tore it down and it became obvious the owner kept it housed in a garage.  Everything removed easily and the BB shell was pristine (quite unusual).  Chasing the threads I could simply turn the Hozan taps by hand (I normally have to use a pretty big adjustable wrench).  YMMV.

I normally start at the BB shell and then work around all the other threaded bits on the frame and fork (M5s for braze-ons, M6's for cantilever studs, M10 on the derailleur hanger).  Generally makes reassembly straightforward and drama-free (boring).

Good luck,

Jeff

Claremont, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

I would think that if you brought a frame to a shop with the right tool, that shop should be able to chase your fixed cup in under 15 minutes.  At $2 a minute, that should be $30 or less.  I can't imagine that you could make a suitable home made tool for under $30 of headache.  There's got to be a good shop in the eastern half of PA.  

I'd love to have a set of quality BB chasing (and facing) tools in my possession, but haven't pulled the trigger on the expense.  For work of that type, I pay Mike Varley, which is a 80-minute drive, but it's always worth the trip.  

BL in EC

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 10:25:21 AM UTC-7 JohnS wrote:

[JohnS]

Jeff, good point, a BB tapping tool would come in handy for the types of bikes I work on, just to chase the threads and make it that much easier to work on them.

Bill, I considered a LBS but talked myself out of it for a few reasons. There use to be one about a mile from my house, super convenient, knew the staff, very helpful. Unfortunately a few years ago it became a Trek shop, different management, different vibe. More recently they moved, so I don't even think about them any more as an option. Also this time of year is when people take their bikes to the shop for a tune up, so I would have had to wait. Better to buy or make a tool to solve the problem.

I was successful after making a couple variations of the thread chasing tool as was shown in the u-tube video Garth provided. It did take a time and a dental pick to get the threads cleaned out. They weren't crossed threaded after all, just something which was very hard, maybe thread lock or dried grease/gunk, I'm not sure which. The first iteration was to use the Dremel cut off wheel to make slots across the threads of a sealed BB cartridge. That cleared the threads on another frame, but did not budge the Sequoia's threads. I figured the threads were too soft for the task, so I did the same to loose ball BB cups since they are a harder steel. I also bolted the drive side cup onto a 1/2 threaded rod so that I could turn it with a wrench (see picture). I installed the left side cup to help the tool stay aligned with the threads. This worked very well with a lot of oil and back and forth turning of the tool. I was able to turn it in almost all of the way in. I then removed the tool and checked the threads. This is when I saw the hardened material in the threads and started to use the dental pick to scratch it out. I then used the tool a couple of more times to get all of the material out. Now I can thread a cup or sealed cartridge in by hand.

The project is a '92 Specialized Sequoia, lugged frame, great shape, purchased from list member Eric L a couple of weeks ago. Converting it from 27" to 700c will allow 32mm tires and will replace my Surly Pacer as my club ride bike. A classic sport/touring rig. Riv content: somewhere, someone said, Grant was quoted as saying it was the best bike he had ridden, or something along those lines, at the time of the interview.

Thanks again Garth for the video, it really helped!

JohnS

[Jeffrey Arita]

JohnS - outstanding work and gorgeous frame!

Way to use what you got!

Best regards,

Jeff

Claremont, CA

[George Schick]

If that BB cartridge shown at the bottom of your photo is what came out of the Sequoia it almost looks like someone used some kind of tar or roofing caulk to lock the BB in place.  Bad idea.  I'm glad you were able clear up the threads pretty easily.

[lconley]

I have an old Sakae loose bearing bottom bracket with steel cups from a long gone Raleigh sitting around that I could not bring myself to throw away because it was basically still good. Now I know what I am going to do with it.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[Garth]

That's wonderful news John , way to go !

[JohnS]

Thank you Jeff. I'm using Groit's Garage paint cleaning clay to pull the dirt/grim out of the paint, I'm about 1/2 way through that process, need to spend some time at the BB. Then it will be a polish to smooth out small scratches followed by one or two coats of wax. Should look like the steerer tube's paint when I'm done. Some chips but not bad for being 41 years old. Also need to do a frame saver treatment before building it up.

George, no the cartridge BB was from another bike, bearings have a lot of play so I was only using it to figure out spindle lengths. Always fun trying to get the shortest spindle to work with a frame and crank to achieve a low Q factor. The bike came with a full Dura-Ace groupo from '92, including the BB which I'll try to reuse. Unfortunately the crank and cogs are too high of a gearing for me. I'll need to use my favorite of 46/34 chainrings and 11/34 cassette so I can climb the hills in my area.

Laing, see, being a pack rat has it benefits.

JohnS

[Will Boericke]

It seems unnecessary at this point, but I wanted to weigh in on BB solutions: I've had great success with threadless "repair" bottom brackets.  I have the Velo Orange one in a Raleigh Twenty that's been great but have used others in other bikes.  Which is good because VO no longer sells it.

Will

[JohnS]

Good point Will. I have one of them from a project which I didn't use it for. It would have been plan B had the it not gone well with cleaning out the BB threads.

Thanks,

John

[E Lee]

Good stuff John. Looking forward to seeing the completed build.

Erik Lee

[robert morrow]

Hey John, I have used the Park BB facing and tapping tool numerous times as a mechanic in High School and college a million years ago as well as recently. It is a great tool. Follow the directions and you will get square faces and clean threads every time. Unfortunately, it is crazy expensive, I think like $600. or so. I have owned 6 Riv bikes and, while I love both their esthetic and the ride, clean threads are not Riv's strong suit at all...a small, out of character and annoying lack of attention to detail, especially at their price point. I have used it in your situation as well. I had gotten an old Bob Jackson frame which had BB threads crossthreaded. Park tool worked great. Good tools matter and good tools are expensive. For a one-time issue, I would seek out a good LBS (talking like old time pro shop, NOT Bike Doctor...Blenky in Philly comes to mind) for this task.

All that said, while most of my tools are Park because they're old, I have some Pedro and Hozan pieces that work fine. But you can't beat Park tool for a tool requiring the kind of precision you want for this task. FWIW

Rob

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of JohnS <shar...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 1:25 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] Hozan Bottom Bracket Tapping Tool

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e75e9353-2a18-4342-bca5-fcf03c3f66den%40googlegroups.com.

[Nick Payne]

Hozan make both piloted and non-piloted BB taps (part numbers C-405 and C-402 respectively). The piloted taps are far superior, as they ensure that the left and right BB threads are co-axial and square to each other.

You can find pretty cheap piloted taps for chasing BB threads on Aliexpress (eg https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803775069380.html). Probably OK for home use, but I have no idea of the quality.

Nick Payne

[JohnS]

Thanks Eric L, everything else came off the bike easily, so go figure. Making progress slowly.

Thank you Rob and Nick, my homemade tools are ok for now, but I should really get a quality tool next time I have this problem.

John

[Garth]

Cyclus BB threading tools from Europe are sold at various Euro retailers and of reliable quality and depending on where purchased from say $85 and on up. They make at three different versions, all with handles. With cartridge BB's however, having the two sides perfectly aligned isn't critical as it is with cups and cones. In fact it has no bearing on it's function, pardon the pun. So for straightening/cleaning out threads the Hozan or home made tools without handles do just fine. We're not referring to cutting new threads here, they're already cut from the factory, hence, a run through is sufficient. 

[Nick Payne]

On Friday, 31 March 2023 at 12:22:28 am UTC+11 Garth wrote:

With cartridge BB's however, having the two sides perfectly aligned isn't critical as it is with cups and cones. In fact it has no bearing on it's function, pardon the pun. So for straightening/cleaning out threads the Hozan or home made tools without handles do just fine. We're not referring to cutting new threads here, they're already cut from the factory, hence, a run through is sufficient.

If you're using a crank that uses external bearing cups, such as some of the Silver cranks that Rivendell now sell, it's important to have the L and R threads and faces of the BB shell perfectly aligned. And you might be surprised at how much a BB shell that comes from the factory with perfectly aligned threads and faces will be distorted during framebuilding, with all the heat going into slightly over half of the diameter of the shell. I've had custom frames from well-regarded framebuilders that have needed quite extensive chasing/facing to get the BB threads and faces back to alignment.

I thought it slightly ironic that the best prepped and aligned frame that I've purchased in the last quarter of a century or so was an off-the-shelf Mason aluminium frame that I bought last year. The BB threads and faces had been machined post welding and painting, as had the headtube facing, and all the threaded fittings on the frame for mudguards, racks, etc, had been cleaned and greased as well. I also think it's just about the nicest-riding frame I've ever ridden.

Nick