Raingear

[Deacon Patrick]

I have a single layer ventile jacket. It's great for rain/wet snow 2 hours or less, but soaks through after that (like yesterdays 6 hour ride). I'm looking for ideas that meet these criteria:

-- Highly breathable. No less breathable than ventile.

-- At least as hearty against brush, briers, and branches as ventile.

-- Hood option, ideally removable/stoable.

-- Shell only for year-round use.

I"m considering Hilltrek's Greenspot Double Ventile, but it is pricy. http://www.hillgear.com/acatalog/copy_of_Cycling_Double_Ventile_Jacket.html

Other ideas?

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[Norman R]

I don't know ventile, but I'd like pit zips.

[Deacon Patrick]

In my experience if a jacket needs ventilation zips it isn't breathable enough even with them.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Garth]

 In the world of performance fabrics ..... that jacket is not all that expensive Patrick !!! 

You're gonna need a full on waterproof jacket for 6 hours in the rain !

You may look into Mountain Hardwear jackets made with DryQ fabric which from what I have read is really EVent fabric of some sorts. EVent being one of the best for the balance between waterproofness and breathing.  No water resistant jacket breathes great under exertion from my experience, except very lightweight thin softshells, which are not waterproof.

Here's an example of a decent MH jacket , they are sold in the UK also.
http://www.rei.com/product/845438/mountain-hardwear-trinity-jacket-mens
http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Trinity%E2%84%A2-Jacket/OM4501,default,pd.html&colorID=438

Paramo jackets might work for you too, they are in the UK too.
http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYLIGHTJACKETQUITOUNISEX
http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/search/index.php

[Garth]

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETPASCOMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETHELKIMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETPAJAROMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETHALCONMENS

http://paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETALTAIIMENS

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Garth. For clarity's sake, I'm in Colorado, USA, not the UK. Ventile jackets are made there. I will check out the links you sent.

With abandon,

Patrick

[bwphoto]

There was a pretty extensive discussion on rain gear back in September here's the link: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topicsearchin/rbw-owners-bunch/rain$20jackets$20rain$20gear/rbw-owners-bunch/IBOM1NYLOzY

I used to work in the outdoor industry and have to say that after testing everything from Marmot to Patagonia and mountain Hardware I really never found anything that would keep me dry in sustained rain. Most of the membrane type fabrics work on the principle of pressure differential between the outside and the inside, so if it is hot and humid and raining and you are naturally hot inside the fabric will only breath if the outside pressure is less than the inside. This kind of rules out warm weather use and explains the clamminess felt inside a jacket while riding or running or even walking. So if you are like me and you sweat prolifically at just about any temp then membrane s don't work well over time.

The other issue is most of them have  DWR (durable water repellant) coating applied during manufacture which helps the water bead, but that coating doesn't last and will wear off depending on use and storage. It can be reapplied with Nikwax but I have not seen much success with its' durability.

Laminated membrane fabrics really excel as wind barriers that's why they are the material of choice for climbers and others.

Laminated membrane based fabrics work fairly well in light rain in cool temps, like winter in Oregon and Washington,  but as soon as the air inside of the jacket starts warming and the difference between the inside and outside starts to increase outside the jacket the membrane can't breath because there is to much pressure outside to allow the moisture on the inside to pass through.

I've found for me (the sweat king) the best solution is either fleece or wool mid layer combined with a thin base layer under a well vented semi breathable jacket, as long as I have air flow that can help dissipate the moisture wicked by the other layers I can stay relatively dry and warm as long as those fabrics wick well.

Finally, the other thing to remember is that laminated membranes do delaminate making them pretty much useless. Most companies will replace delaminated garments as long as they haven't been abused. It is also possible for delamination to occur when a garment is stuffed in bike bag or left in a hot car.



Based on the info in the September discussion it looks like the rain jackets made by J&G  Clothing  might be a good option.

[Tim McNamara]

Raingear simply doesn't work at keeping you dry if you are doing something like riding up a hill.  There is no point in worrying about staying dry because it's not going to happen.  You are either going to get wet from rain or wet from sweat.  The main thing is to avoid hypothermia if it is cool and wet, especially when descending.

My single layer Ventile jacket is one of the best "breathing" jackets I have used, but it is a showerproof rather than rainproof jacket.  The Greenspot jacket is double layered Ventile- less breathable but resistant to water intrusion longer.

As for "rain" jackets, my Showers Pass is the best I have used.  It is well ventilated and made from eVent material.  It won't keep you dry for 6 hours in a downpour, but then in those cases you should probably be indoors.  ;-)  In a long soaking rain with little wind, I would prefer my Carradice rain cape.  The ventilation is about as good as it gets and just the tops of my arms and shoulders get damp with sweat.

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[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, bwphoto. I suspect I'll stick with my single ventile layer and possibly get the double layer down the road. It's breathability, high water resistance (at single layer, cant' speak to double layer yet), heartiness, and complete lack of crinkling (a big deal for my brain) make it the best option. My experience matches yours -- I've gotten wet in longer rains no matter what I'm wearing (Actually less wet with my ventile than all others), and that includes high tech fabrics in cold temps, so there is a pressure differential. Ventile is the best thing I've used (and I've tried nearly everything, as of 5 years ago). When it's 70 or warmer and raining, what's the point of a rain coat? I just wear my shirt and shorts and delight in the wet. It's the all day rains of spring and fall that are near freezing that are the deadliest weather, but some great times to be out camping.

With abandon,

Patrick 

[Deacon Patrick]

Thanks, Tim. Do you, or anyone else on the list, have experience with how much more double ventile works than single?

What sent me searching is not anything directly from yesterday, but had I been out camping yesterday, I would have loved to be less damp when I stopped cycling. My core was lightly damp, my arms wringably damp but not soaked and I was toasty warm.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Lyle Bogart]

Deacon, I'm coming late to this thread but I'll add my thoughts anyway. I've used many different shells for a variety of activities such as cycling, running including mountain and trail running, climbing, skiing, and on and on. I've really enjoyed this jacket:

http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Waterproof-Breathable-Rain-Jackets.html

I've used it cycling, running, and bouldering in the high desert area of Arizona when I worked on the Navajo Reservation, Cycling, rowing, and running in the Pacific Northwest, and now out here in mid-coast Maine. It is tough as nails, very well thought out, and due to the benefits of the long pit zips and vented back, I've stayed dry enough (whatever that means), neither soaked from within or without. 

Made in the US for what that's worth and a decent price as well.

Cheers!

lyle 

--
lyle f bogart dpt

156 bradford rd

wiscasset, me 04578

207.882.6494

206.794.6937

[Deacon Patrick]

Thank you, Lyle. Could you do me a favor and tell me how much noise it makes compared to a cotton chambray shirt? I generally avoid nylon because it makes more noise than that.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Garth]

 Seeing what you prefer Patrick, I also saw this jacket and others , made with cotton .
http://www.thewashingmachinepost.net/vulpine/rainjacket/review.html
http://road.cc/content/review/69458-vulpine-cotton-rain-jacket
http://www.vulpine.cc/Shop/Rainwear/ICAT1011/MENS-ORIGINAL-COTTON-RAIN-JACKET/ITM1005
http://www.vulpine.cc/Shop/Rainwear/ICAT1011

[Lyle Bogart]

Deacon,

I doubt it's as quiet as a cotton chambray shirt, but it is as quiet as an old 60/40 cotton/nylon jacket I have. I absolutely cannot abide a noisy jacket. . . 

Cheers!

lyle

[Deacon Patrick]

Very helpful, Lyle. May be worth a shot. Thank you!

With abandon,

Patrick