I can relate to this. For me there are pros and cons. For example, the Clem I bought a few years ago was intended to be an analog mountain bike. I found the long chainstays to be a liability for east coast single track. This is especially the case with tight turns and the need to carry the bike. If I had to do it all over for the type of MTB riding that I have available to me I would go for a bike with shorter stays and a lighter frame. That said, I love the longer chainstays on my Sam as compared to a regular road/gravel bike. Definitely noticeable on the descents. I ride my Sam on dirt roads quite a bit and the long stay really shines in that situation.
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On Mar 7, 2024, at 1:36 AM, Mike Godwin <spoke...@gmail.com> wrote:
Eric D asked what model Treks. Good question, as I just walked in on the sout side of the store and exited on the north side. The bikes are lined up in the 2-stack wall-mounted stands. Flat bars, sloping top tube, tall headtube, flat black with large diameter tubes, disc brakes, nothing I am going to do a double take on, for sure. But since the shop is on the other side of town and it is fun to look at the Paramount, and Cinelli, and Colnago in there, might as well take a gander at the long chainstay bikes. I can always ask about the mt bike rentals too. FYI, Foothill Cycles on Foothill in SLO towards the campus side of town.
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Like Tim, I got an early Clem, thinking it would be an updated, proper-fitting version of an analog 80s or 90s mountain bike - because that's how it was initially concieved and described by Grant. But I admittedly struggled on trails, just as you describe. So it kind of morphed into something else, for other kinds of riding.
On Mar 7, 2024, at 9:08 AM, Hoch in ut <cack...@gmail.com> wrote:
I should have clarified. I have never ridden a Jone LWB. I owned the original Jones 29 spaceframe for a number of years. That was a fun bike.
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1964 58 cm Jack Taylor Sports 45.0
1966 56 cm Raleigh Sports 3-speed 45.0
1973 56 cm Raleigh RRA 42.5
1978 58 cm Raleigh Pro V 42.0
1972/73 56 cm Schwinn (Panasonic) World Voyageur 44.0
1973 58 cm Schwinn Paramount P15 45.0
1977 58 cm Trek TX500 44.5
1972 58 cm Masi GC 42.0
1983 58 cm Masi GC 42.0
mid-1990s 58 cm Davidson Discovery 44.0
1996 58 cm Mercian 44.0
1996 58 cm Waterford 1200 42.0
Russell Duncan
Saratoga, WY
What I’m reading is that most of you concur that Grant is not right all the time (with regards to bike design). Big companies are not right all the time. He’s right some of the time, as are the big companies. Answer, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
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The controversial 29er geometry approach that we were scorned for back in '05 seams to be more and more common as we enter 2010. We are OK with that because it means big wheels have come into their own, and the bigger companies are catching on. We stand by our WetCat design and haven't changed a thing. Here's the pitch from "back in the day".
When refining our exclusive WetCat Geometry, We peed in the eye of tradition and ignored the number-obsessed skeptics.
Our long wheelbases, steep seat tubes and slack head tubes made us true blasphemers in the frame design world. As the critics baulked, we honed our angles and tube diameters, to fully utilized the big wheels we are so faithful to.
Now, with so many podium finishes under our belt, and a legion of happy Vassago riders, we confidently say;
So what can WetCat do for you?
Climbing
Climb the nastiest technical sections like a wet cat climbs the drapes a grandma's house. (what you never did that?)
Traction to spare, and a neutralized rider position will have you cleaning sections you never expected, and have your buddies buyin' you rounds when the pedalin's done.
Descending
Stability is your best friend when speed is what you're looking for. The centrifugal force of fast spinning big hoops and the long, steel frame offer confidence to rival a full squishy bike at speed.
Comfort
9 to 5 is just plain wrong. For those of you who's therapy is an nice epic ride on a Sunday morning, we have your prescription. Between the balanced geometry and the unrivaled ridability of steel, a vassago will keep you cumfy in the saddle as long as your legs can keep pushing.
Balance
Where it all comes together. Our unique frame geometries all work together to provide a perfectly balanced 29er that feels like no other 29er you've ridden.
Forget the many tallish, slow handling 29ers that are becoming all to common. We center the riders weight between the wheel centers for a distinctive feel of riding IN the bike, not ON TOP of big tall wheels.
Test ride a Vassago and then test ride anything else with twice the price tag. You'll see what we mean.
Generally speaking, we have noticed the media and thus the general opinion is that the shorter the chainstays, the better. Like we have said all along, our dedicated approach to designing 29ers tells us this is bullocks. While short stays are great on a 26" bike and enhance the characteristics of that type of bike, our bikes are built to climb. Since most of your time, blood, sweat and tears involved in a day long epic are spent climbing, we focus on that.
The WetCat geometry further enhance the climbing benefits of the 29" wheels by aligning the rider's COG (center of gravity) inside the rear axle line when on a steep accent.
To use another motorsport analogy, dirt bikes are converted to hill climb monsters by adding more power and stretching the rear wheel further out. When applied to mountain bikes, this means a more relaxed climbing position that takes the focus off of balancing the bike and lets you put all your energy into putting the power down.
The secondary benefit of using longer stays that you can get away with on 29ers is the all day comfort factor. Proper butting profiles in a longer steel chainstay offers a level of compliance like no other
All those wanting Rivendell to re-release bikes they made 10 years ago do NOT have to turn in their Riv card, but they ARE outing themselves as PAWNS of the T&D IC. Resist the pressures of the Time and Date Industrial Complex!
On Mar 7, 2024, at 6:12 PM, Hoch in ut <cack...@gmail.com> wrote:
Keith, I’m assuming you’re in the western Wyoming area?
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On Mar 8, 2024, at 8:50 AM, Chris Halasz <cha...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'll chime in that while the very long (54cm?) chainstays on some of the frames introduce some storage concerns, they (the Platypus, for instance) ride very, very nicely.
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Eric D asked what model Treks. Good question, as I just walked in on the sout side of the store and exited on the north side.
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