Is it worth it? Am I crazy?

[Jamie D.]

Hi Everyone!

Sorry for this long first post, I hope you can help me navigate stepping into the Rivendell universe in a rational way.

I'm just getting back into cycling again after a long absence. Previously I lead a no-car-multi-bike lifestyle for over a decade.

I'm drawn towards the Clem Smith Jr. – the accounts I've read here range from something like riding Falcor through time and space to an existential crisis from owning 'The Cadillac of Bicycles'.

My main mode of transportation was previously a Bilenky cargo bike. I loved/miss the upright posture and extra long wheelbase hence my interest in the Clem.

I live in a small Philly row house with some challenges (I did not have the Bilenky at this house):

• To get into my house I have to get the bike up 4 stairs and in my front door which opens into a wall. I have to zig-zag bikes around this short wall to get them into the house.

• I store all my bicycles in my basement which is a 90 degree turn from the basement door to the relatively steep stairwell. To get bikes down the stairwell, I prop them up vertically on the rear wheel and walk them down the stairs in front on me holding the handlebars and strategically using the rear break.

• To get them out of the basement, I have a ramp that locks into the stairs. I shimmy the bike onto the ramp, put my left hand on the seat post, my right hand on the right handlebar grip and push the bike in front of me up the stairs and turn the bars at the precise moment navigate the 90 degree turn out of the basement door.

My PBH is 85cm and saddle height 74cm so I could fit a 52 Clem but it sounds like a 59 Clem would be more ideal.

There's a chance I would not have to take the front wheel off of the 52 to get the bike down the basement but it would likely require be turning the bars slightly which could be more sketchy.

I would definitely have to take the front wheel off the 59 to get the bike down the basement. I might even have to take it off to get in the front door.

What would you do if you were in my shoes? Is the Clem worth the hassle? Is sizing up to the 59 worth the extra hassle? Am I nuts for considering the Clem in general?

Thanks for any insight you many have!

[Joe Bernard]

I have a 79pbh and 52 Clem L, it's wonderful. But huge and heavy. My opinion is you'd love the ride but the storage hassle would wear you out pretty quick. 

Joe Bernard 

Clearlake CA 

[Will Boericke]

I'd get a minivelo, like Velo Orange's.

Will

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

In younger years I had the same challenge: storing bikes in a basement and shlepping them in and out with similar turns and zig-zags as you describe. Don't underestimate the issue of bar width when making your decision. The Clem is best with something like a Bosco, so going in and out of doorways is more of a challenge. Not sure of your age but at my age I would not want to be pushing a big long bike uphill with or without the front wheel. And if the front wheel is off - that's two trips. Of course, fenders are a no-go if you need to keep it vertical. Baskets, racks etc complicate things for sure. Like Joe said, the ride is not the issue - it's everything you would want in a longbike. If there is a way to simulate the task I would try that first. Anyone in Philly you can borrow one from?

Marty

On Monday, December 9, 2024 at 2:38:26 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Minh]

I live in the 2nd story of a brownstone in brooklyn, and while it sounds like getting my QB into my apt is a little less difficult, I can relate to the 'is it worth it' question.   In the end that's up to you but, I would strongly echo Marty's suggestion of finding a bike to test, or taking measurements of existing bikes to see which ones can approximate things.   because if you really measure wrong it could mean something dramatic like needing to take off the front tire, or turning the handlebars etc.  

good luck!

[Benjamin Wildflower]

Hello fellow Philadelphia-rowhome-dweller. I have a 59cm Clem I love very much and which is very cumbersome in and out the door. Message me directly to take it for a test ride to your home and in and out of your basement and back to my home and report your results to the group. Look! We’re doing science!

-Ben the car-free dad in Kensington

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[NYCbikeguy]

Hi Jamie,

As a fellow bike guy who has some experience with cramped/unusual living spaces, I'd say that it's not really worth the hassle of getting a clem at this time in your life since it's either going to be unridden due to the physical barriers that make it difficult for you to pull the bike out, or it's going to get vandalized or stolen if it's locked outside (which I'm sure you're not even considering). I owned the 52cm Clem L and it was a hassle getting through the double doors of my current apartment entrance. Granted, I have a Gus in 57 that's just as big and long and I still ride it, I just can't imagine making those maneuvers you described with a big bike like the clem or gus on a daily basis. 

With that said, I don't think you're crazy. Maybe just not the right time.

Best,

IY

[Jason Fuller]

At your height I don't think a 52 would feel too small - they're big long bikes after all - and based on what you describe i'd consider being able to roll around on the back wheel without removing anything to be a requirement, practically speaking.  A 55 Platy might be short enough too?  Other than that, I suggest running Albatross bars or similar modest ~55cm width bars, to me that'll make a huge difference vs wider bars in terms of maneuvering. Big wide bars can be comfy but would be a nightmare in your case. 

Nice thing about the Clem is lifting by the bottom of the "top" tube is nice and ergonomic 

[Jamie D.]

Thanks for the input so far everyone!

Ben, I'm pretty sure we already know each other and would love to take your Clem for an experimental test ride and trip down the basement in the name of science. I'm going to send you an email.

Does anyone have experience with both a Rosco MTB and a Clem Smith Jr? Or Maybe a Clementine and a Clem Smith Jr? The Rosco MTB seems like it would be a great compromise but really tough to find . I'm looking for something with MTBish capabilities and a Platty seems more road focused but I don't plan on tearing down any single track in the near future.

[jeffrey kane]

Bravo to Ben ion Philly - that's what makes this list exceptional;...

[Cormac O'Keeffe]

Based rom years of lugging bikes in and around cellars and corridors in Paris, mixte bikes are way harder to carry or lift than bikes with top tubes.

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[Kim H.]

@Jamie,

My 52cm Clem weighs around 30 lbs without my bags, water filled bottles and my rear rack. It is just shy of 80 inches long. It demands my attention in carrying it down four steps off of my front porch to go for a ride.

My PBH is 80.1cm. The bike fits me very well.

Kim Hetzel.

[Bill Lindsay]

It may be a small thing, but I found the Lift-a-Tube on a Rosco Bubbe Mountain Step-Through to be extremely useful for carrying the bike up and down stairs at the BART Station.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Roberta]

Hi Jamie. 

Try Ben’s Clem. ( ben—I thinkknow you— you have an adorable child and a green Clem that you share with your wife?) The Clem is very long but I bet you love the ride. If you also want to try 55 Platy you’re welcome to try mine for testing.  It will be less long and lighter than the Clem.    I’m in center city i’ve had similar issues getting my bike in and out of the house. 

Roberta

On Monday, December 9, 2024 at 1:15:39 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:

[Richard Rose]

Jamie(?). I am late to this conversation but I have some thoughts. I adore my 53 Clem - to the tune of closing in on 9,000 miles in three years. I cannot not ride it. I think the “Cadillac” of bikes is a huge disservice to the bike. It implied that the ride is smooth but not responsive. This is simply wrong in my experience. There is nowhere I would not take my Clem with the exception of serious singletrack. I have a Gus for that. That said, there is one other place I would not want to take my Clem - up stairs!  Mine is just a 52 & it’s unwieldy to move around tight spaces. I roll mine in & out of the garage & thats enough.:) Your description of moving up & down stairs in your Philly home sounds like torture to me. But I am old so…

My two cents.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 11, 2024, at 4:01 AM, Roberta <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jamie. 

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[lambbo]

Hi Jamie, 

I'm in Brooklyn, and have a Cheviot which I keep locked up outside on a street sign (8 years now).   New locks, including for your seat, wheels, stem, and any bolt you feel like locking, really are a game changer...I also have intentionally destroyed the aesthetic of my cheviot using paint stripper, brown paint, bits of other colors, and scratches on my seat, to deter thieves.    It looks like a huge, old, rusty women's bike to most thieves, not really a market for that.  

I can't say it will always work, but is has so far, and the amount of hassle I've avoided getting my bike in and out of my apartment over the years has kept me commuting on a wonderful bike.  If someone stole my bike tomorrow, I think the cost benefit would still be in my favor (it's also a used bike with used dynamo used everything for that reason, but still rides like a dream). 

The paint stripper and brown matte paint are probably the best deterrent, but the locks I use are Abus Bordo and a lot of hex locks on everything. 

Hope that's helpful,

Antone

[DavidP]

Antone - The amount of dedication and will power needed to go through with making a nice bike look bad as a theft deterrent will never cease to impress me.

Ride on!

-Dave (out in the 'burbs near Boston)

[Jamie D.]

Thanks for the continued and inspiring feedback everyone!

Roberta, that is so nice of you to offer, I will likely take you up on this at some point.

The metaphorical wheels are turning and now I'm considering a Platy... 

According to Bike Insights, the "Bike Length with Tires" for the 52 Clem is 77.35 inches and the 59 Clem is 81 inches.

Unfortunately Bike insights does not have this info for the Platy. 

Does anyone know the "Bike Length with Tires" (which I assume is the longest measurement from the outside edge of the front and back tire) for a 55 Platy?

[Patrick Moore]

Antone: Will you please post a photo of your Cheviot?

Long ago there was a “show us your beater commuter” thread on the boblist, with some very interesting results; I recall someone who had made a “pseudo-Ram” out of a cheap UJB by nicely taping the frame entirely in orange duct tape. Then there was Sheldon’s winter fixed gear mtb conversion commuter which he left outside in the snow, simply dribbling used motor oil onto the drivetrain every so often.

Question, aside: my daughter lives in Brooklyn, near Prospect Park. Is that general area largely safe for locked up bikes and human owners? Thanks.

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[Ginz]

It's worth it.  But as another Philly row house dweller and basement storer, try to negotiate storage *one* bike on the first floor. Just one.

[Franco Rinaldi]

My clem really changed my outlook on bikes. When i ride my clem it’s a meditation

Franco Rinaldi 

c:  646.403.0661 

-Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-

On Dec 11, 2024, at 3:15 PM, Ginz <the...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's worth it.  But as another Philly row house dweller and basement storer, try to negotiate storage *one* bike on the first floor. Just one.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d91b602c-881e-4de9-a1c2-5fd430bb45d5n%40googlegroups.com.

[Roberta]

The Platy is more than 70 inches wide, tire to tire. I don’t remember the exact measurements, but I can measure when I get home late tonight.  Leah, Bicycle, bell ding ding, has owned both Bikes and might have a unique take comparing the right quality. They are both nice riding bikes, but different.

I think as long as you have the opportunity to try both bikes the three of us should get together and you can try both bikes back to back. You might like the one ride much better than the other or you might say you like both of them and either Bike would make me very happy.  They do ride quite differently.  The good news is they both ride nicely and I don’t think either Bike would be a bad option.

 I think getting either one up and down from the basement won’t be really fun and I recommend Ginz’s recommendation of keeping one in the living room. 

Roberta

[Brian Campbell]

As someone who lived in a number of small row homes in Philadelphia, I know of what you speak and for me personally, this would fatigue me in relatively short order. 

In addition rain, snow and road slop being run through the house year round would be another thing that would make me tire of it.

I imagine the Clem would be a great riding bike on Philadelphia's not so perfect streets but the daily hauling of the bike and whatever you happen to be carrying on the bike, would feel like  a lot.

Maybe somewhere on the first floor could be designated as "bike parking" and you could rotate bike one bike at a time in and out of that spot?

I wish I had a better suggestion but as someone who hauled bikes, musical equipment in & out of those type basements/homes for years, I feel your pain.

Brian Campbell

Berwyn, PA

On Monday, December 9, 2024 at 1:15:39 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:

[Abbey Campbell]

Jamie—

I just built up a 55 platypus and it measures roughly 76.5 inches from edge of rear tire to edge of front. So, slightly shorter than the Clem.

Only ridden it once so far but the ride is great. But it is by far and away the longest bike I’ve ever had. I used to live in a 12 ft wide Baltimore row house with very tight, awkward basement access and I’m not sure I’d want to deal with it—saying this as a young, able-bodied person. I feel like for me, it’d mean I’d be looking for excuses not to ride the bike, and in the basement it would stay.

I always tried to plan a way to store a bike or two just inside the front door. Like on one of those swiveling mounts, or on a pulley system… but never got around to it, and instead just moved somewhere where storing bikes is easier lol.

-Abbey

On Dec 11, 2024, at 9:32 AM, Jamie D. <jamiedil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the continued and inspiring feedback everyone!

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[Mike Rossi]

I’m getting 76 inches on my Platypus with GravelKing SK 2.1’s. 

Mike

On Dec 11, 2024, at 4:47 PM, Roberta <rcha...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Platy is more than 70 inches wide, tire to tire. I don’t remember the exact measurements, but I can measure when I get home late tonight.  Leah, Bicycle, bell ding ding, has owned both Bikes and might have a unique take comparing the right quality. They are both nice riding bikes, but different.

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[John Dsvidson]

I’m a big strong man. But there is no way I would be trying to lug a Clem Jr up the stairs, and navigate a bunch of 90 degree turns. 

I ride a big one 64. And to me, it’s the bars that give me the most problems. They are comfy out on the ride. But difficult to even get in the house. Plus it’s a heavy bike.

Hope the best for you, but I would be very sure.

John

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[Jamie D.]

Wow, thanks again for all the insight and info everyone! It is truly so helpful.

I was floating a bunch of crazy ideas to my partner last night about storing the bike somewhere else in the house when I realized that if I'm i'm going to get Clem or a Platy I'm just going to have to find a place to store it outside.

My house is on a corner so I have easy access to my small backyard. Constructing a lockable shed in my small backyard seems like the best option. I'll just need to make it super secure and will likely use some of Antone's techniques for big city outdoor storage.

From what everyone is saying about the ride quality, I imagine the Riv would be the bike that get’s chosen the most which means it should be the most accessible.

This is the path forward!

[lambbo]

someone requested lockable riv pic - here it is loaded up with 50 lbs of wax 

[Patrick Moore]

That was I; thanks. Then the next question: What do you do with 50 lb of wax? And what sort of wax: paraffin? 50 lb of paraffin will wax a hellofalot of chains!

On Fri, Dec 13, 2024 at 12:26 PM lambbo <antone...@gmail.com> wrote:

someone requested lockable riv pic - here it is loaded up with 50 lbs of wax 

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[Danny]

Antone, thanks for the photo, that's one of my new favorite Rivs! Love the Paul bits on there that I'm sure go unnoticed.

Danny

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

That bike’s famous around these parts! High profile low-pro. A stunner in any state. I want to see the low trail version for extra kick.

-Kai

[Corwin Zechar]

Hi Patrick -

My daughter also lives in Brooklyn. She's across the street from Prospect Park. I've spent lots of time in many areas of New York City - including lots of time in Brooklyn. I would never leave a bike I wanted to keep outside in New York City. The weather is harsh. And often, if they can't steal the bike, they will take one or more parts and/or vandalize it. I have seen people hack through seatstays just to be nasty.

Regards,

Corwin