Joe Appaloosa, MIT Atlantis versus Jones SWB

[Jonathan D.]

I was curious if anyone has ridden both a Jones DWB is LEB and can compare to a Joe or MIT Atlantis. The new SWB complete is $1800 and seems to share some design philosophy. Jones on the podcast sounds like Grant talking about bike design. Debating how I can fit this in my bike collection and what I would sell and where there would be overlap. Thinking of selling my Sam to buy a Jones.

http://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-swb-complete-bicycle/

Podcast

https://www.behindthehandlebarspodcast.com/podcasts/2018/4/18/ep-31-jeff-jones-jones-bikes

[Tony DeFilippo]

Jonathan,

Not sure about the 'DWB or LEB' but I own a Clementine and a Jones Plus (original, now called LWB). I also have a Saluki which is my daily rider.

In my opinion the SWB vs a MIT Atlantis/Appaloosa is a closer comparison than it may look. There is allot of riding philosophy that lines up really neatly between both companies. The starting points are just very far apart. Riv starts with the original BOBish/somewhat retrogrouch aesthetic with a commitment to an all rounder that can be built to suit, Jones comes from a competition minded, or at least very high level mountain biking with a bike designed from the tires up as a fully integrated package that happens to accel at many forms of bike activity.

But to really boil it down I'd say if you have a use or like the idea of 3" tires and disc brakes go for the Jones, if you aren't sold on those two elements or can't live without the sweet Riv aesthetics go with the Riv. Both bikes certainly will do way more than what most of us are capable of anyway.

Or go my route, keep the Sam (Saluki in my case) set up more pavement oriented and get the Jones as your off pavement primary... Then ride both on everything and have fun.

I will say that a Jones with 2.35" slicks would probably be my desert island/one bike if I ever had to choose. Especially with the unicrown fork so I could run a front basket... Oh and at $1800 complete the SWB Jones is practically in Clem territory price wise.

Tony

[Jonathan D.]

Thank you Tony. And please excuse the typo. I meant LWB and
SWB and auto correct must have changed it. Jones discussion of the benefits of long chain stays seem to mirror Grant.

I like the observation of approach. Jones comes from design from suspension mountain biking and Grant from road racing with a retro grouch aesthetics. They seem to converge in the same space for design with a few variations, disks being one.

[Chris Lampe 2]

I think RBW's introduction of the Wavie bar brings the Jones/Petersen convergence even closer.  I just got a Jones H Bar and really like it and the Wavie looks to have a similar grip angle.  I was amazed at the difference the Jones bar made in slow speed maneuvering and I think the very similar Wavie will be a big hit with Riv owners.   

[ian m]

I have a Clem and Jones Plus. When I lived in California and rode trails that were beautifully groomed a bike like Clem was just fine. Then I moved to PA and all my local trails are gnarly, root filled, technical singletrack that are designed with modern mountain bikes in mind. Sure, I could ride the Clem on them but with how slow I'd be going I might as well just hike. So I started looking for a 21st century MTB and found Jones bikes. The design philosophies of the two companies are so similar I felt like I couldn't go wrong with a Jones. And I'm glad I got one because it's a blast. It rolls over anything, feels stable on everything but still very maneuverable, and good disc brakes offer one finger braking and total relief from the exhausted and cramped hands and wrists I used to get from underbiking on tough singletrack.

[Jonathan D.]

Ian - how would you describe the ride feel between the two on pavement?

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I have a Joe A and the older version of the Jones diamond Ti frame with the truss fork - so not the LWB..  Although I love both of these bikes, the Jones is a superlative ride.  I have the "smaller" slick tires (2.5?) Schwable Marathon Supreme and Alfine 8 drivetrain on the Jones.  Talking to Jeff Jones is also a treat.  He takes the time to answer all your questions.  Not that Riv doesn't.   It's one of my keepers.

On Sunday, July 15, 2018 at 11:29:40 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:

[ian m]

My Jones is a dedicated off-roader. I'm running 3" knobbies tubeless with 10psi in front, 12psi in back, and the bounce when pedaling on pavement is pretty extreme.

[Jonathan D.]

Chris. Just curious why you think it is a superlative ride? Any comparisons in terms of ride and feel?

[T Cal]

I have a relatively new Ti jones plus lwb diamond frame with truss fork and rohloff hub. I already owned several rivs: QB, ram, Clem L, appa/mystery bike, Sam Hilbourne. My Sam is setup as the most off-roadish of the five. To me, the Jones rides quite different and has very different capabilities. It is more versatile and at least as comfortable. The jones climbs anything and goes over everything. In June I did a week+ mixed terrain backpacking trip in England. The jones was fantastic. Any of my rivs would have worked less well - much less well on some parts. I love the rivs, but the Jones, to me, is a different animal.

[T Cal]

Oops - should be “bikepacking”

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Jonathan, I am a big fan of the Ti bikes I own (Seven, Blacksheep and the Jones).  In all of these bikes I feel a smoothness when I ride that isn't always present in others.  I certainly like steel and have never owned a carbon fiber, so that is my universe of experience in frame materials.  I think the Jones is well proportioned to me in reach and general set up so that helps too.  Just a combination of a lot of different factors that come together in this particular bike that makes it a real treat for me to ride.  Sorry if that all sounds very vague.

[Belopsky]

Jones was awesome on trails, I had the LWB one. It wasn't as whippy as my now Santa Cruz. I bet a SWB would be fun.

I had a Clem. Stable. Boring. Got me to work just fine.

Atlantis was decent, stiff and overbuilt for my use and weight. I do miss it. It fit well.

[Jonathan D.]

Thank you for the feedback.  I wish the Jones was easier to test ride, but not many shops carry it.  However, my in-laws do live near Talent so I might have to swing by.  The more I ride the Joe, and now that I have Boscos on it, the more I like the fat tire, long chainstay design.  Of course the Joe has 52, with the Jones a "short" 48. $1800 seems really reasonable, though shipping is quite a bit extra. The Jones seems like a good Rivish mountain bike with discs.

[Chris Lampe 2]

I believe the  complete Jones bikes have chainstays that are 44.5 cm long.  Hopefully Jeff will offer the LWB model as a complete.  

[ian m]

The chainstays aren't the defining characteristic of Jones geometry! On the LWB with truss fork the HTA is 67.5 and the fork has 76mm offset. Looks like short wheel base HTA is 69 and unicrown fork offers 55mm offset. So you're still getting a long wheelbase that offers stability but more from the fork and headtube than the chainstays. Same principle, different handling. Slack HTA keeps the reach short without needing Boscos and gives you a lot of room for leaning forward or standing while climbing and keeping the front end planted, but the body position closer to rear wheel makes it easy to lift the front end to clear obstacles. I'm sure it would make a good all-rounder and great bikepacker but personally IMO everything about it screams optimized for spirited trail riding.

[Jonathan D.]

Ian. Thank you for the explanation. It sounds like a perfect compliment to the Joe. I’ll just need to raise bike funds to buy one. Or if anyone wants to trade a Sam for a Jones, let me know.