silver shifter slip under load

[Sam Perez]

hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost shift under load.

thanks

[Jay Lonner]

Are these OG Silvers or Silver Mk II? I several sets of the originals (and the the Suntour Sprints they were based on) and the weak point in the system is the little plastic washer that sits right under the bolt. If that’s cracked or missing you won’t be able to snug things down enough. Luckily Riv sells (or used to sell, haven’t checked recently) replacements that appear to be made of a more durable material. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Oct 6, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Sam Perez <sam.per...@gmail.com> wrote:



hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost shift under load.

thanks

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[Sam Perez]

It's the original silver shifters , they were in storage and not used untill now. The washers seem okay but I'll look into the new ones .

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[Clayton Scott]

Maybe add a little blue loctite or beeswax to the bolts.

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 2:09:27 PM UTC-7, Sam Perez wrote:

It's the original silver shifters , they were in storage and not used untill now. The washers seem okay but I'll look into the new ones .

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 8:56 AM Jay Lonner <jay....@gmail.com> wrote:

Are these OG Silvers or Silver Mk II? I several sets of the originals (and the the Suntour Sprints they were based on) and the weak point in the system is the little plastic washer that sits right under the bolt. If that’s cracked or missing you won’t be able to snug things down enough. Luckily Riv sells (or used to sell, haven’t checked recently) replacements that appear to be made of a more durable material. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Oct 6, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Sam Perez <sam.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:



hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost shift under load.

thanks

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[J L]

Some derailers have a stronger return spring than others. I would put it further down the list, though.

[Patrick Moore]

I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons -- where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very hard to find locknuts don't fall off.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez <sam.per...@gmail.com> wrote:

hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost shift under load.

thanks

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic tension washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but not the washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.

[Nikko Mendoza]

Hey Sam, 

I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L mentioned (spring return) . 

My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuuuuuper hard to do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty hard and I feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but then I do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser than it was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you think the problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the spring return of the front derailleur? 

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Onward, 
Nikko Mendoza
nikkog...@gmail.com

757-618-1124

[Sam Perez]

I'm begining to think the xt rear derailleur has a big part in it. It's a thick steel  mt bike frame  I'm sure flex has a minor part bc I tried to slowly crank up a hill without leveraging the bars as to not flex the bike, and the silver shifter slipped to the next gear. After a few shifts it only loosened. I just got home from the hardware store. Gonna apply locktight. My silver shifter is the first model so the washer i have is the one that they later improved on. I don't know where to get a list of deraliurs with strong springs or if there is a list of deraliurs that are not as compatible with silver DT shifters. I'll report back after some rides.

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[Patrick Moore]

Sam: FWIW, I used my Silvers, original version, with an old 8-speed-era XT rd as well as several others; I didin't notice that slippage was worse with the XT than with the Dura Ace or Microshift or LX reverse pull, but at any rate, blue Loctite kept the lever firm with all these derailleurs.

(And, just in case, blue also fixed any slipping problem with XT, LX, and Dura Ace front derailleurs.)

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[Sam Perez]

Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used. Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a possible slip symptom. 

Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.

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[Bill Lindsay]

It sounds like it may be worthwhile for you to have a good mechanic inspect your setup.  Diagnosis shouldn't take long for a good mechanic. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Garth]

   FWIW, I've noticed on my 9sp 12-36 cassette the middle cogs in particular have to spot-on with the chain in order to hold the gear. Contrast that to my Sachs 7sp FW that offers a whole lotta leeway in that regard. The cassette cogs are so contoured/shaped to facilitate ease of shifts with their indexed shifters. With a friction shifter such isn't necessary or helpful, even maddening at times as you have experienced Sam. 

  Since I ride bike with both cassettes and freewheels it sometimes takes some "time to remember" the seemingly wacky nature of shifting cassette cogs compared to freewheel cogs. 

  The Sprint shifters never were very good at holding the gear without the assistance of a thread locker. Back when they came out in the 80's I always preferred Campy DT shifters as they held their tension. Contrast the Sprint with SunTour's original thumbshifters, which are excellent at holding the gear with only modest tension of the bolt, never ever requiring thread lockers. The difference between the two is the innards, the thumbshifter having a larger radius ratcheting mechanism inside, and the thumbshifters have metal washers, no plastic is to found anywhere in those. 

[lconley]

Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose, but something to check if the shifter is not at fault

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[lambbo]

Nikko, I've had the same problem with my Silver 2 Shifters...very handsome but (besides immediate rusting on the bolts) they just don't really work - I have to tighten them so much that they're hard to shift, and then they slip back again a few shifts later.  I don't have this problem with my old Silver shifters, set up downtube.  

[Patrick Moore]

I've experienced finicky chain tracking myself on the middle cogs, but I've found one can replace the troublesome cogs with others of the same size that aren't as finicky. Even better, my most recent cassette, built out of real Miche 10-speed cogs (instead of 7, 8, and 9 speed leftovers from my cog box) keeps the chain tracking wonderfully even when shifting with the far lower MA Suntour bar cons; perhaps this is because I tried the trick (per Bike Radar) of using an 11 speed chain on the 10 speed cassette.

That said, IME, otherwise HG cogs work very well with friction; at least as well as non HG cogs, and I think, overall, better.

Perhaps try the trick of using a chain 1 generation thinner than your cassette.

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[Patrick Moore]

Again, blue Loctite solved the slipping problem with my first gen Silver BES.

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[Patrick Moore]

BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.

[JohnS]

I second the N+1 for the cassette cog count to the chain. I have a Shimano 9 speed cassette and a 10 speed SRAM chain ( PC-1031), work very well together with my Suntour down tube shifters. RD shifter stays put, but the FD shifter comes loose with frequent shifting. I just keep tightening the D ring, may switch to the Silver DT shifters. We'll see.

JohnS

[Eric Marth]

Nikko – I'm having the same problem with a set of Silvers I installed today. Anything improve your shifting? 

[Eric Marth]

Installed Silver (v1) shifters on Shimano pods last night/this morning. I had a problem very similar to what Nikko described above. The lever for the rear derailleur worked like a dream. But the one operating the front mech was difficult to use. 

Surly LHT, Albatross bars, Shimano pods. Front derailleur is a Shimano Tiagra FD-4503.

After some trial and error I have them working nicely. The Shimano levers I removed worked just fine. I installed the new Silvers using instructions for SuperMix Shifters from a 1999 Riv catalog: Snipped and modified the shifter boss stop, mounted lever and washers, applied beeswax to the wing nut. Installed cables as normal. The lever for the rear worked just fine. The lever for the front was very difficult to operate. At first I thought I couldn't move it at all. 

I took the troubled lever off. With a closer look I noticed the shifter boss wasn't sitting perfectly flat. The channel I cut there needed to be a bit wider to clear the nub in the shifter pod. So I filed that down some more. And I had incorrectly run the cable at the pinch bolt. I had been going under the tab, I needed to go over top the tab (consulted installation manual and some forums). This changed the leverage a bit to my advantage. 

While doing this I also replaced the cable and housing. I didn't see anything troublesome in the cables and housing so far as crimps, dimples or kinks. I applied some additional beeswax to the threads of the wing nut. Reassembled. 

Now the shifter is working as expected. 

[Nikko in Oakland]

Shoulda updated y'all!! 

> And I had incorrectly run the cable at the pinch bolt. I had been going under the tab, I needed to go over top the tab (consulted installation manual and some forums). This changed the leverage a bit to my advantage

Yes, I actually did the saaaame thing. Once I run over top the tab instead of under, it started working as expected. Finally took a longer ride yesterday with the shifters and it's a bit stiff, but I think that's just me getting used to it vs having them on the downtube. I feel like it was just a rookie mistake on my behalf, but happy with them now. 

[dougP]

I have the new version 2 Silvers on my Atlantis.  The right one works fine but the left one seems overly fussy.  I'm wondering if the FD has more resistance or a stronger spring than the RD?  Naturally, I've checked out all the usual suspects & everything is good.  Installed new cables with the new shifters so no problems there.  I have to crank the D ring so much it discourages front shifting.

Still tinkering,

DougP