Hunqapillar or Appaloosa?

[Michele]

Trying to decide between the Hunqapillar and the Appaloosa, and I'd love some insights from current owners. Obviously, the Hunq is more expensive and has a longer wait time, but functionally, where does each frame shine? What would make you choose one over the other?

[Deacon Patrick]

What type of riding do you do? In general, because of the cost and wait time deltas you mention, the Appaloosa would be my default, with the sole exception of if you are going to do a LOT of single track and/or bikepacking on single track, where the beefier frame and slightly shorter chain stays shine. I have a Hunqapillar and essentially everything I can do on it I believe I could do on the Appaloosa equally well (and perhaps better for a large chunk because of the longer chain stays. I ride unloaded and loaded on paved, dirt, and single track and love it.

In essence, you can only go right with either choice!

With abandon,

Patrick

[Philip Kim]

more road/dirt roads - appaloosa

more rougher single track, heavier loading - hunqapillar

even if I were 51% pavement and 49% dirt, i would choose the appaloosa. it can fit a pretty big tire.

[Joe Bernard]

As Deacon Patrick says, the Hunqapillar is billed/built as a full-on mountain bike, while Riv places Appaloosa as a touring bike halfway between Hunq and Hillborne. I've owned an Appaloosa (sold for financial/life-went-crazy reasons, no problem with bike) and it's a spectacular road-and-trail bicycle.

I'd wait and pay for a Hunqapillar for these reasons: Love the color, love the name/headbadge/decals, ride lots of singletrack. Otherwise Appaloosa is the one.

[Garth]

 Which-ever one fit me best.  As for intended use, it's a bike, it rides just like a bike, and it IS a Bike !   Whoa !!!! Yes !  They both go anywhere you go, I mean, the bike doesn't ride itself does it ? 

Does the bike say .... " I don't really want to go on that trail today< I might get dirty and I just showered .... I don't like that road riding thing with those tires, they are so not me  ...... those tires make me look fat ..... those bars make me look like a dork with wings . "  You know, stuff like that ?

smile !

[drew]

I believe that the Appaloosa started as a middle ground between hunq and hillborne, but by the time it was made it had been made burlier and lies between a hunq and an Atlantis. At least that's my recollection of the chronology.

I have a hunq, which will soon be traded for an Atlantis. It is a great bike. Best I've ever owned.

I've come to think of rivendell as a line of do-it-all bikes. There is a lot of overlap between models and the bikes do not excel at any one specific thing, other than ride quality, comfort and beauty. I mean this in the most positive way. I think that even a hilsen with big tires could do 99% of what most people use their hunqapillars for.
So I guess what I mean is that, if you want a mountain bike or a racing bike, I wouldn't get a rivendell. You'd be missing out on what those bikes offer in their specialty and missing out on what a riv offers outside of that specialty.

I would assume that they are functionally equivalent. So I would make my choice based on handlebars and wheel size.
I am a medium sized guy and have found my one complaint about the hunqapillar to be 29er tires on a medium sized bike. I could run a small 700c tire on the bike, but that would feel sacrilegious to me.
As far as handlebars go, I don't know that id want to try to run drops on the Appaloosa. I know people do it and like it, but that bike was designed for upright bars. The hunq does drops just fine. In the opposite way, I had a hillborne that I felt was too short in the top tube for upright bars.

Lastly, If like me, you have more idealistic views of your riding than actual, id recommend rectifying the two before purchasing. I thought I would be doing lots of off road riding and touring... I wish that was true. In actuality, in Los Angeles, 75% of my riding is on roads.

[Richard Rios]

I'd ask if you are the type who likes to have one or multiple bikes. If one go Appa. If you like to have bikes that are more specalized get the Hunqa. I'm sure both are great and can be used as allrounders as most Rivs can. But if ya buy kinda smack dab in the middle like with an appa, if you ever go to buy a new bike you will be looking for ways to differentiate it or asking yourself just why did you get the new one. I ran into this with my Atlantis and Clem. Buy Rivs towards the ends Hunqa and Roadini. With that kinda setup most all middle ground is covered. or buy one in the middle and strech towards the ends and don't worry about what you are missing because it wont be much as far as general fun and fitness riding go...

best,
Richard

[Chris Lampe 2]

The Appaloosa was definately described as being in between the Hunqapillar and the Hillborne and the Appaloosa brochure states it's almost a clone of the Atlantis, with a few geometry differences.  I do remember reading that the 2017 Appaloosas have a heavier fork than the 2016 models.  I think it's equal to an Atlantis.

Having said all that, I'm working on the same Hunq vs Appaloosa decision so I e-mailed Riv and the tubes on the Appaloosa were much stouter than I expected, based on the descriptions I had seen.  I don't remember the numbers but the tubes were thicker than .9/.6/.9.   I assume the tubes are Oversize.

I think it's fair to say the Appaloosa is quite stout and I doubt it gives up much to the Hunqapillar in durability or stiffness. 

[adam leibow]

I have a hunqapillar and I really like it but I do really enjoy the larger size and long chainstays of my cheviot. So maybe if I were to do it all over again I would just get the Appaloosa in a larger size and be done wit it. 

[Andrew Huston]

"Lastly, If like me, you have more idealistic views of your riding than actual, id recommend rectifying the two before purchasing"

as quoted by Drew above, is advice I needed a long time ago. Many bikes were bought and sold before my Appaloosa. I wish it were more trail oriented personally. The long wait time on the hunq seems it may make the decision easier. Didn't a recent email state that no new orders were being taken due to long backups for Atlantis/hunqs?

[Deacon Patrick]

To be clear on the chain stay length difference between the two effecting trail riding, of the 50 miles or so of single track I ride regularly, I'd say there are about ten spots of technical rocks and/or roots that a longer chain stay would make (I imagine) challenging. Say 30 feet of trail per spot, so it would effect a tenth of a percent of my trail riding. I'd call that a non-factor. That's roughly the amount of extra trail I have to walk instead of ride because I'm running Snoqualmie tires instead of Racing Ralphs, and I happily do that till winter (which arrives in September here. Grin.) 

With abandon,

Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

I hadn't read that about the fork, but interesting if true. The one thing that seemed slightly out of place to me on my joe was the slender-looking fork on such a stout frame.

[Keith Muller]

Michelle,

I own a Hunqapillar, an Atlantis, and an Appaloosa. My Hunqapillar is by far my favorite bike. The Hunqapillar has a longer top tube so it works better with flat or swept-back bars. The Appaloosa has a little shorter top tube, but it's also a bike that works well with flat or swept-back bars.

Personally I like the nicer details and look of the Hunqapillar, but it's also $1000+ more than the Appaloosa.

If budget is a concern, get the Appaloosa. If not, go for the Hunqapillar. Both will ride well. I've done many of the same things with both bikes and have never thought to myself that I missed out by not being on the other bike.

At the end of the day, they are both bikes. You'll be happy either way. Just make sure what ever bike it is, that you like the color.

Cheers,

Keith

[Jay Connolly]

No question that the fork is more burly on the 2017s. I had that straight front Grant.

If the trails and light and relatively smooth, the Appaloosa would bike fine. I like the widest possible tires for rough trails. On a recently camping trip, I took the Appaloosa and suffered a little over about 10km of rocky trails. I should have dropped the pressure in the tires, which would have improved things, but a genuine MTB would have been a better choice for the day. If that sort of riding (rough, rocky trails) will be rare for you, the Joe will be just fine. If it's more regular, then I'd go with the Hunq.

Jay

[Jay Connolly]

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 7:25:26 AM UTC-7, Jay Connolly wrote:
> No question that the fork is more burly on the 2017s. I had that straight front Grant.
>

> If the trails are light and relatively smooth, the Appaloosa would be fine. I like the widest possible tires for rough trails. On a recent camping trip, I took the Appaloosa and suffered a little over about 10km of rocky trails. I should have dropped the pressure in the tires, which would have improved things, but a genuine MTB would have been a better choice for the day. If that sort of riding (rough, rocky trails) will be rare for you, the Joe will be just fine. If it's more regular, then I'd go with the Hunq.
>
> Jay

[drew]

In that situation, what would the hunq offer that the Joe doesn't?

[Jay Connolly]

Wider tires.

Jay

[J Imler]

Would anyone speak to heel clearance on the Hunq? I've got a rear rack with side Wald baskets on my App and there's no issue at all with heel rub.

[Stuart Lovinggood]

I tried both on my visit to HQ, and ended up with an Appaloosa almost entirely because it was cheaper. Not that I couldn't save up for the Hunq but it's more money than I'm comfortable sinking into a bike at my station in life. But the Hunq had something in the ride quality that was doing it for me. It reminded me of my Bridgestone MB, which is an amazingly comfy bike in my mind.

Worth noting that if you are a taller person, you won't be able to hop on the 650b train on an Appaloosa. Hunqs can be ordered up to 59 size with 650b wheels. I ride 29x2.1 on my Joe and it's is a lot of tire to be pushing around everywhere I go. Like I said, I really like riding 26" on my MB-5.

[Kurt Manley]

I own a Hunq and had an Appaloosa based Proto-Riv and for me the Hunq was the right bike. But I loved the Appa a lot.
I wanted to be able to ride rougher single track with tight turns and was willing to give up the extra smoothness and stability on the longer bike for more agility so I went with the shorter Hunq.
I sold my Proto to a fellow lister and he puts his kid on the back and loads the front with his camping gear and rides around Oregon like that. I think it's the perfect bike for what he's doing. The longer bike was by far the most stable, comfortable bike I have ever ridden but that did make it a bit harder to maneuver through rough stuff off road. I still did it but a shorter bike is easier.
If it were me I'd figure out what type of riding I'd be doing most and base my decision on that. If you're doing rides that are mostly pavement or fire roads the Appaloosa is probably they way to go. If you're routinely hitting rougher singletrack the the Hunq might be your bike. The Appa will ride smoother.

The Hunq is no mountain bike though, it's fairly capable but I might buy the Appa and spend the money I saved on a Karate Monkey or similar for trail shredding

On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 10:56:36 AM UTC-7, Michele wrote:

[Kevin Lindsey]

I have a 54 cm Hunqapillar and carry the big Ortlieb bags on a Nitto Big Back rack.  My heels don't come anywhere near the bags.

Kevin

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Michelle! What an exciting dilemma you're in! 

That's me Kurt is talking about! I didn't even occur to me that I might have something to add to this post until Kurt added his two cents. I bought his Proto-appaloosa this spring and I've been loving it. I haven't ever ridden a Hunqapillar, but if anyone in Portland has a 62cm I'd love to take it for a spin! The bike I own is basically Appaloosa geometry with a Hunqapillar fork and diagatube. So far, I've mostly been commuting on it with a few mini-tours on mixed road/gravel here in Oregon. Its VERY comfortable. I was able to ride some rough gravel roads and you can just fly on descents. It feels like you're floating through all the bumps. You will notice that it takes a little extra leaning for tight corners. I have dreams of riding more singletrack, but I know the vast majority of my riding will be on the road or fire roads. Overall, I'd definitely recommend the Appaloosa if you're looking for an all-arounder (tour, gravel, commute, etc.). Here's a picture of the ride Kurt was referring to that I did with my son: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXLg4k-BB32/?taken-by=hunqaloosa So fun! 

The long chain stays tend to draw attention of others, so you'll likely get some comments and need to explain things for people. But the bike will stand out for lots of other reasons too. :) 

Cheers,

Tim O.

Portland, OR

[Patrick Moore]

About the photo: that's an elegantly loaded bike, perfect balance front to rear!

Is that a custom frame bag, or is the perfect fit just serendipity?

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[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

Thanks! It's a custom frame bag that my mom made for me. She's the coolest. :)

On Thursday, August 3, 2017 at 9:46:19 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

About the photo: that's an elegantly loaded bike, perfect balance front to rear!

Is that a custom frame bag, or is the perfect fit just serendipity?

On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 5:53 PM, Tim O. (Portland, OR) <timothyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Michelle! What an exciting dilemma you're in! 

That's me Kurt is talking about! I didn't even occur to me that I might have something to add to this post until Kurt added his two cents. I bought his Proto-appaloosa this spring and I've been loving it. I haven't ever ridden a Hunqapillar, but if anyone in Portland has a 62cm I'd love to take it for a spin! The bike I own is basically Appaloosa geometry with a Hunqapillar fork and diagatube. So far, I've mostly been commuting on it with a few mini-tours on mixed road/gravel here in Oregon. Its VERY comfortable. I was able to ride some rough gravel roads and you can just fly on descents. It feels like you're floating through all the bumps. You will notice that it takes a little extra leaning for tight corners. I have dreams of riding more singletrack, but I know the vast majority of my riding will be on the road or fire roads. Overall, I'd definitely recommend the Appaloosa if you're looking for an all-arounder (tour, gravel, commute, etc.). Here's a picture of the ride Kurt was referring to that I did with my son: https://www.instagram.com/p/BXLg4k-BB32/?taken-by=hunqaloosa So fun! 

The long chain stays tend to draw attention of others, so you'll likely get some comments and need to explain things for people. But the bike will stand out for lots of other reasons too. :) 

Cheers,

Tim O.

Portland, OR

On Wednesday, August 2, 2017 at 4:09:02 PM UTC-7, Kurt Manley wrote:

I own a Hunq and had an Appaloosa based Proto-Riv and for me the Hunq was the right bike. But I loved the Appa a lot.
I wanted to be able to ride rougher single track with tight turns and was willing to give up the extra smoothness and stability on the longer bike for more agility so I went with the shorter Hunq.
I sold my Proto to a fellow lister and he puts his kid on the back and loads the front with his camping gear and rides around Oregon like that. I think it's the perfect bike for what he's doing. The longer bike was by far the most stable, comfortable bike I have ever ridden but that did make it a bit harder to maneuver through rough stuff off road. I still did it but a shorter bike is easier.
If it were me I'd figure out what type of riding I'd be doing most and base my decision on that. If you're doing rides that are mostly pavement or fire roads the Appaloosa is probably they way to go. If you're routinely hitting rougher singletrack the the Hunq might be your bike. The Appa will ride smoother.

The Hunq is no mountain bike though, it's fairly capable but I might buy the Appa and spend the money I saved on a Karate Monkey or similar for trail shredding


On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 10:56:36 AM UTC-7, Michele wrote:

Trying to decide between the Hunqapillar and the Appaloosa, and I'd love some insights from current owners. Obviously, the Hunq is more expensive and has a longer wait time, but functionally, where does each frame shine? What would make you choose one over the other?

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[Michele]

Hey Stuart, can you explain a little more about your wheel size preferences? I noticed that Riv seems to change wheel size based on frame size, presumably to keep proportions. I also know there's a trend toward 29ers but you seem to prefer the smaller wheel. Just wondering why, that is, how does it affect your ride?

[Michele]

Thanks Patrick and others for the feedback -- it's enormously helpful! Right now my riding is mostly paved and dirt trails with some big hills and occasional rougher trails mixed in, but over time that may change to add some commuting and light touring. I definitely want the option of larger tires for comfort and some off road capability, but I also want the bike to feel fun and spirited. 

[iamkeith]

I dont think anybody suggested this yet but if, and ONLY if, one of the Clem Smith Jr. frames fit you well, that could be a best of both worlds option. It has the longer top tube similar to the hunq. (better for flat or swept back bar options, less toe overlap issues if riding on trails or slow speeds, and more confident steep, rough descents because endos are less likely), with long chainstays like the joe (stability, comfort, better climbing on smooth - as opposed to rough or technical - trails).

Best of all, it has the same or even better tire clearance than the hunq. That (plus the fact that i had one on order from the overlapping anouncement and presale) is what is important to me and kept me from buying a joe when THEY were announced. I really like the ability to use a 2.3 to 2.5" tire AND fenders, and don't see a downside to them. I think the joe could fit without fenders but would be really tight even then.

I really like the long chainstays, but part of that may be because i have many bikes at the opposite extreme, and enjoy the variety. I wouldn't call the clem "spirited," but it is shockingly fast compared to what you would expect. Kind of like a speed skate compared to a hockey skate, with the long front AND long rear, all effort seems to be translated to forward motion. Standing and rocking the bike in a sprint feels a bit awkward and doesn't really work, but that's the only time i wish it felt quicker or more "spirited," and that may be a bit of a false sacrifice anyway.

The recent newsletter seemed to suggest (without offering explanation), that production of the clems is coming to an end, in case that is a motivator.

All that said, I'm planning on trading my clem for a hunquapillar as soon as i can afford it. As Garth said, your absolute #1 criteria should be fit, and it will trump (gotta find a replacement term here... supercede? override?) all other details or deficiencies if you get a good one. I happen to fall squarely between sizes on both the clem snd joe (along with most newer riv models), and everything is a compromise. However - at least at this moment in time - the Hunq is offered in many sizes, just like the older models were, one of which should fit anyone very well. Also, the 2017 size additions have slightly longer chainstays than the older ones. FWIW.

[Marc Irwin]

I love my Hunq, that's really all I got.

Marc

[Surlyprof]

Michele,

My riding sounds very similar to yours.  I do it all on a 56 canti-Hillborne which I think is great for the roads and lighter trails, but becomes less desirable as things get rough and technical.  Part of that is the lighter, more flexible build (country bike vs mountain bike), part of it is due to the lower bottom bracket and part of it is due to the wheel size (for me).  Ever since I tried out a 650b Clem at Riv HQ, I felt that 650b is the perfect wheel size for someone of my size.  I am 5'10", 165# and 86 pbh.  Something about 650b felt like the perfect blend of stable and nimble.  The 700c wheels on the Hillborne feel great on the road but feel a little cumbersome on trails.  Additionally, I used to ride 26" wheeled MTBs and always found them to be a little twitchy.  With all this in mind, I have convinced myself that a 650b Hunq would be my dream bike (although I'd be hard pressed to ever let my Hillborne go).  For me, that would be the decisive issue.  Although the Appaloosa rode like a dream, the Hunq can be had in 650b.  The 56cm demo at Riv HQ right is drool-worthy!

Either way, you can't go wrong.  Both great bikes.

John

[Justin, Oakland]

650b would be my deciding factor as well. At a 5'11 ish guy I hate the feeling of my 29er (so much I converted to B plus!) and the "tall" feeling on 700c bikes.

Gimme that sweet spot in the middle.

-Justin

[Patrick Moore]

Very interesting. I'm not at all saying someone shouldn't prefer this wheel size to another, but I will put forth my own experience: I ride very light 559 wheels on the road (370 gram rims, 175 gram tires -- these are Ksyrium weight - Ksyrium ,since those were the last hot rod wheelset I bothered to compare to) and segue very easily to 29er wheels on my Matthews, though admittedly, my Velocity Blunt SSes are road rim light, and the 360 gram F Freds, tubeless, are road tire light. I never had a problem transitioning from the 559 road wheels to my 800 gram Snocat Sls and my 800 gram Big Apple Liteskins.

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[maxcr]

The proto-appa lives!

https://bikepacking.com/news/readers-rig-tims-rivendell-protovelo/

Really cool to see all the different versions of an awesome and versatile bike! Very nice Tim.

Max