Build kits!

[Leslie]

Check it out!

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm

[John Bennett]

Thanks for noticing, Leslie. These are the components that work so
well together on our frames (and we recommend them time and time
again), so we thought we would make it easier for everyone by offering
them as kits. We knocked a little of the collective price to make it
more attractive, too.

Cheers,

John at RBW

[William]

It's a great strategy to streamline the bike selling process.  It saves the Riv-person some time, and it saves the customer a ton of anxiety if they don't come into the transaction with a bunch of preconceptions.  Clearly this won't be the choice of somebody who has really specific ideas about exactly what they want, or of cheap bastard parts hoarders that do their own builds (william looks in mirror).  When I've sent acquaintances to Riv, I've always told them 'trust the people, they won't steer you wrong'.  Now, I can tell them to trust the build kit, and trust the people.  With this, it's possible somebody could walk in, having never looked at the website, ride a couple bikes, make a choice and completely spec their build in under an hour.

[Manuel Acosta]

I like this. Being a stubborn, self-doer of sorts, I dislike not
working on my own bike. I believe that we are all makers of our own
destiny and we should be have some physical aspect of building or
maintaining our own bikes. That way if something breaks or falls off
you know it's your fault.

[dougP]

John:

Wonderful concept but one bit of whining about the 9 speed cassette:

11-32 instead of the 12-36?

I hate to come on like I'm grading papers but IMHO 11t cogs are
useless but a 36t has real value. Sometimes its the little stuff
that's the difference between good & great.

dougP

> >http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[James Warren]

+1

That 36 is a great gear. Makes me more inclined to ride instead of drive.

 

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jimcw...@earthlink.net

- Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.

[Darin G.]

Are these only available with albatross bars or am I missing
something?

On Jan 26, 11:14 pm, James Warren <jimcwar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> +1
>
> That 36 is a great gear. Makes me more inclined to ride instead of drive.
>
> On Jan 26, 2012, at 9:20 PM, dougP wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > John:
>
> > Wonderful concept but one bit of whining about the 9 speed cassette:
>
> > 11-32 instead of the 12-36?
>
> > I hate to come on like I'm grading papers but IMHO 11t cogs are
> > useless but a 36t has real value.  Sometimes its the little stuff
> > that's the difference between good & great.
>
> > dougP
>
> > On Jan 26, 12:08 pm, John Bennett <johnat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks for noticing, Leslie. These are the components that work so
> >> well together on our frames (and we recommend them time and time
> >> again), so we thought we would make it easier for everyone by offering
> >> them as kits. We knocked a little of the collective price to make it
> >> more attractive, too.
>
> >> Cheers,
>
> >> John at RBW
>
> >> On Jan 26, 9:48 am, Leslie <leslie.bri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Check it out!
>

> >>>http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm-Hide quoted text -

>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
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>
> James Warren

> jimcwar...@earthlink.net

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I often read that the 11t is useless, but of course, that depends on your chainrings. With a modern mountain triple or mountain double, the biggest ring is 39, 42, or 44t. I'm setting up my Goodrich with a 42/28 crank and a 11-36 10sp cassette.

[William]

I agree with Jim.  Anything higher than a 4-to-1 is useless to me, to be sure, and even a 4-to-1 is only useful when I am in a major hurry on descents and insist on pedaling beyond 35mph.  On one bike which has a 50/34 up front, the 12 cog on a 12-27 cassette is useless, but on another bike that has a 44/30 up front, the 11 cog on an 11-26 cassette is nice to have sometimes.  

On the uber-low-end, I think a 24 in front and a 32 in back (which is the lowest gear in the standard kit) is plenty low for everything but ultra loaded touring (in the very low 20s in gear inches).  So spec-ing an 11-32 on a 'make it simple' build kit for an alba-bar-Rivendell is not a horrible decision at all.  The person who knows they need gear inches in the teens is probably not getting the standard kit anyhow.  That's my opinion, anyhow.  I seriously doubt many of the buyers of that standard kit will be dissatisfied that their bike wasn't geared low enough.  

[Joe Bernard]

Agreed. The build kit is for the guy/gal who wants a nice complete bike from Rivendell. Once you're specing specifics like the cassette, you're out of the "just put one together for me" game.

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

As somebody who's worked with customers on builds, MOST people don't have super specific preferences - they just want a configuration that will work and have an overall aesthetic, possibly with a few minor personal touches. The advantage of having a "kit" is that it shortens the phone conversations considerably. When I do this, at least with some customers, I often feel like I have to sell them on every little part.
Me: "I suggest the SRAM chain."
Customer: "Would I be better off with a Shimano chain?"
Me: "Well, Shimano is fine, but we usually use SRAM."
Customer: "Oh, well, I've always used Shimano."
Me: "I will be happy to use a Shimano, if that's your preference, but SRAM has that cool master link, so we like it."
Customer: "Jeez, now I'm torn."

Obviously, some, even most, are calling me because they like the bikes I have built in the past, and are happy to trust my knowledge on their own bike build. But the indecisive micro-manager type above absorbs a huge amount of time, and all too often, can't pull the trigger when it's time to give me a credit card number. The kit approach may not satisfy the micro-manager, but it at least gives him a foundation of info to consider before he picks up the phone.

With the posted kit, the customer can call the order in and say, "listen, this kit looks good and I can easily see the price, but I REALLY need the 12-36 cassette, and can I upgrade to indexed shifters?" I can't say for sure, because I don't work there, but I'm guessing Riv is willing to make small, simple substitutions like that (with appropriate upcharge, if needed), as long as they don't cascade into a major revision of the kit. Sometimes, a single substitution is not as simple as it sounds. That guy who is "awfully fond of STI" (there must be a script for how to say these things) and Phil Wood freewheel hubs is probably in for a disappointment.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Just so's y'all know, Miche makes outer Shimano compatible cogs in
teeth up to 16. Switch out that pissant 11 for a manly 16 t outer. I
use 15 and 16 t outers on the Fargo wheelsets -- 15 for the skinny 40
mm tires and 16 for the fatties. Of course, even these serve mostly as
spacers for even bigger cogs: the 67" cruising gear on the Big Apple
wheelset is the 46/20.

Patrick "that's how I can climb all those hills in the big ring" Moore

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For professional resumes, contact
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[PATRICK MOORE]

One more comment, tangential: I just resurrected the Big Apple
wheelset today and did a windy out and back. I am very pleased with
the superbe rolling qualities of the two Schwalbe models I've used,
559X1.35 Kojaks and the 60 mm Big Apples. After riding the Fargo with
Ritchy semi-cross tires for months -- very light tread on the surface
-- the BAs just rolled superbly.

[Peter Pesce]

The build kits seem to be a logical extension of the typical build sheets listed with some models. It's easy for customers to know the exact cost, and IF it saves RBW some time there's a discount in it too. I think after one or two substitutions it might become a typical custom build anyway, though Riv has skwdys been ultra reasonable and may be reluctant to bump people out of the package deal.
I hope this strategy expands their market a bit. Certainly all of us here on the forum want to pick everything down to the ferrules, but many people don't, and may have been put off by the too-many-options approach in the past.
Maybe Riv should build up their last few SimpleOne frames as complete bikes and see if that helps their appeal.
I'd be curious to know how many bikes Surly sells "complete" vs frame-only?

Pete
SingleSixtySidepullSam...and QB.

[dougP]

"Useless" was the wrong term; should have said "...more use out of a
36 large than an 11 small...". Since the kit includes Riv's standard
Sugino crank with 46t big ring, even the 12 is sorta downhill-with-a-
tailwind or getting chased by a big dog type of gearing. I also
recall something on the Riv site about them liking the 12-36 because
you could stay in your middle ring a bit longer.

Anyway, it is a bit of hair splitting when you're talking about a kit
system meant to simplify the parts spec'ing. Heaven knows Rivendell's
spec'd parts a lot more real world useful than a lot of the stuff from
the mega factories.

dougP

On Jan 27, 12:57 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

Re: surly completes vs frames

When Surly gets a batch of bikes and frames in, typically they have MANY more bikes than frames on-hand. I don't have exact numbers, but I think it's not far off to say they stock 5x as many completes as frames.

[Leslie]

On Friday, January 27, 2012 11:31:24 AM UTC-5, Darin G. wrote:

Are these only available with albatross bars or am I missing
something?

They are now showing Noodles, Albatross, and Moustache bars; pick the bar, pick the wheelsize, and Bob's your uncle...

 :)

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

Any idea why the 8 speed Noodle kit is $120 more than the 9 speed
Albas?
As far as I can tell everything else is the same.

Jay

[Leslie]

The regular Noodles are more than the regular Albas; then the 46 and 48 are heat-treated Noodles and have an additional upcharge more.  The brakes change out, the levers change out, the tires change out;  those are the things that caught my eye toggling between them.   I've not gone through and tallyed up each variant, but...  it could be, the higher price packages is closer to the normal pricing (but w/ the $100 savings), and then they managed to get enough of some things in the other package to cut the price another hundred, and passed those along, too...  (don't know, just guessing...)

[Dave Rivbike]

the 8sp was a typo. all kits are 9.
noodles and tiagra brake levers cost more than the alba/mtb levers

[Jay]

If this had been available in the summer I would have probably done
it.
Since it wasn't, I spent a lot of time working with an excellent LBS
to spec my Sam - mostly because Riv was a lot more $ for the same
stuff.
This way would have come out about the same price, less effort and
probably a few smarter decisions on parts.

Maybe for the next one.

Jay

> > >http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/build-03.htm-Hide quoted text -

[Jay]

Any idea why the 8 speed Noodle kit with should be $120 more than the
9 speed Albas?
As far as I can see everything else is the same.

Jay

On Feb 3, 4:14 am, Leslie <leslie.bri...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jay]

It still doesn't make sense to me.

Albas $60 + grips $24 + tiagra levers $55 = $139
Noodles $81 + shimano levers $33 = $114
Everything else looks the same.

I'm just asking out of curiousity and because I happened to notice.
I'm quite happy with the pick it yourself build home brew build kit on
my Sam.
If these kits were available when I build mine this probably would
have driven me nuts, since I wanted the Noodles. As it is I think I
may have been better off with Albas, but that's another story.

Jay

[Leslie]

We're comparing our prices, not their costs; different items might have lesser margins than others... Might be, the Noodle sets are inline w/ where they should be, and they can discount the Albatross sets more... I don't know, just guessing. I'm not worrying about it, I tend to pick other stuff myself, but see these as great ways to simplify a build for the majority of customers...

[kwhiner]

Ditto to both William's and Bernard's comments!

How hard would it be at some point in the future to swap-out the
cassettes to fit the needs of a particular ride/event.

I personally wouldn't have a need for an 11T cog, but I'm using 110/74
style cranksets and generally 8 speed clusters.

[dougP]

Swapping cassettes is quite easy. There's a lock ring that holds the
cassette on the hub and you just need a tool that Riv sells. Dave
says (above)all the kits are 9 speed but 8/9/10 all fit the same hub
so if you have 8s cassettes you like they'd pop right on. Not sure
about chain compatibility between 8 & 9 though. My stuff is all 8s
but I've used 7s & 9s cogs within home grown cassettes that work fine,
even index.

dougP

> > of the "just put one together for me" game.- Hide quoted text -