A well traveled topic: 650b or 700c Hilsen?

[Justin August]

H folks-
For reasons that are personal and non-important I'm looking at upgrading my Bleriot to a Hilsen. The practical aspects are the addition of DT shifters and my Bleriot always feels just a bit too small. I'm debating between the two Hisens 58 and 59 due to tire size. I have a fixed gear 650b city bike that I love and enjoyed the 650b on longer rides with the Bleirot. Perhaps I'm worrying too much but does it make sense to have my only (for now) two bikes be this tire size? Wouldn't. Diversity be a better thing? I feel lost!

-justin

[jimD]

I celebrate diversity. My Saluki is 650B and the Riv custom 700C. I find subtle differences between the two wheel sizes but nothing dramatic. So having the diversity has persuaded me that there isn't
anything 'magic' about wheel size. Tire diameter and inflation pressure seem far more dramatic to me.
Others feel differently and favor one wheel size over the other.

If you go the diversity route you get to experience both sizes and formulate your own beliefs.

With diversity comes complexity.
If you want a generator hub you have to choose between wheel sizes. You need different replacement tubes. You can't swap wheels from one bike to the next.
All food for thought.
-JimD

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[William]

Remember you can run skinny 700c wheels on a 650B Hilsen

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/5467655268/in/set-72157624977899459

[Smitty-A-Go-Go]

Between the wife, the kids and my bikes we have 5 different wheel diameters in the garage and that's after I converted a 27" wheeled bike to 700c. There are often times when it would be easier to have more of the same wheel size for parts compatibility + interchangeability. Consistent rear spacing would make things easier at times too but that's for a different thread. 

[Liesl]

I have two 650B's – a Saluki and a ProtoBleriot set up as a
singlespeed. I do like having a dynohub wheel that can go back and
forth between the two. But I must say that don't like the persistent
tire limitations. There are only so many 650B tires. I had a heck of
time finding a skinnyish (meaning 36 or less) knobbyish tire for
winter use – try looking for a 650B that fits this bill. Not too
many. But look for a 700? lots. Even look for a 27". Lots. Don't
get me wrong; as a shorter person, I am in love with with my Saluki
and Proto. But my next bike(s) will have common wheel sizes for the
petrapocalypse.

yours, liesl

[rob markwardt]

I've got 27", 700c, 650B, and 26 inch bikes. Love them all but will
let you know if I find the "MAGICAL" size..will keep searching.

[Bob]

Should be function over form, but I think frames approaching 60cm look
best with 700c wheels, and I like the larger wheel anyway. My wife's
little Surly looks great with 650Bs.

[PATRICK MOORE]

27" tires: what good ones are there in the 28 to 32 mm width? I am debating whether it's worth building a new set of 700C wheels for the trike or whether simply to replace the aging IRC 27 X1 1/8" tires. I want light, fast road tires. Any ideas, class?

Riv content: I've moved from 559 X 23 mm to 559 X 32 mm on my Riv commuter.

BTW: here is why you need a trike to carry loads. Not mine; from Trikes and Odd Bikes blog. 

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Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
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[Eric Norris]

Paselas come in 27", and they're usually quite cheap (probably because of the limited demand).

–Eric N

Sent from the iPhone 4S

On Nov 25, 2011, at 7:41 AM, PATRICK MOORE <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

27" tires: what good ones are there in the 28 to 32 mm width? I am debating whether it's worth building a new set of 700C wheels for the trike or whether simply to replace the aging IRC 27 X1 1/8" tires. I want light, fast road tires. Any ideas, class?

Riv content: I've moved from 559 X 23 mm to 559 X 32 mm on my Riv commuter.

BTW: here is why you need a trike to carry loads. Not mine; from Trikes and Odd Bikes blog. <image.png>

[William Pustow]

Kind of assumed it wasn't yours by the wet roads, green leaves.

[Peter M]

Well just my two cents with the center pull saluki but I can run big
26" tires in the rough stuff by moving the brake pads diam compes down
to the end of the slot, looks a bit funny since I have a 58cm but
since the tires are so huge it compensates. I can also run 700c 28s
too but it takes a quick brake change to the mid reach grand compe
brakes but it only takes about 25 minutes. Since the 650b Hilsen and
Saluki are basically the same I would say the 650 Hilsen is a
versatile beast.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2011-11-25 at 08:41 -0700, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
> 27" tires: what good ones are there in the 28 to 32 mm width? I am
> debating whether it's worth building a new set of 700C wheels for the
> trike or whether simply to replace the aging IRC 27 X1 1/8" tires. I
> want light, fast road tires. Any ideas, class?

I think your best bet is the 27 x 1 1/4" Pasela.

[Steve Palincsar]

Here's my 60 cm MAP Randonneur:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157627155309179/show/
I think it looks just fine w/650B wheels. And note those wonderful red
Hetre tires: nothing even remotely like 'em in 622.

[Bertin753]

Here is the dilemma: I want to build a new front wheel with a dynohub; the question is, given that I have to pay for a new build in any case and that I aleady own both 630 and 622 rims, whether I ought to just do it all at once and switch to 622, a change which will give me far more tire choice. If it were simply a matter of replacing the existing tires, I'd probably just use 630mm Paselas.

OTOH, if there were a selection of top quality tires available in 630mm, that too would be a reason to stay with the existing size.

But for a long term investment, given that an investment has to be made, and, #2, given that there is only decent 630 tire and that even this may not be available forever, I expect that it would be prudent to switch to 700C. Right?

Patrick Moore
Typed with one finger on my
iphone

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2011-11-25 at 15:03 -0700, Bertin753 wrote:
> Here is the dilemma: I want to build a new front wheel with a dynohub; the question is, given that I have to pay for a new build in any case and that I aleady own both 630 and 622 rims, whether I ought to just do it all at once and switch to 622, a change which will give me far more tire choice. If it were simply a matter of replacing the existing tires, I'd probably just use 630mm Paselas.
>
> OTOH, if there were a selection of top quality tires available in 630mm, that too would be a reason to stay with the existing size.
>
> But for a long term investment, given that an investment has to be made, and, #2, given that there is only decent 630 tire and that even this may not be available forever, I expect that it would be prudent to switch to 700C. Right?

Assuming your brakes can accommodate the smaller wheel size, then
unquestionably the answer is yes. There are no tires in 630 to equal
the likes of the Grand Bois Cypres available today. The Pasela isn't
bad, but it's not "first chair quality."

[hobie]

I own a Saluki 650b and a Bombadil 650b. I prefer having one tire size. I know I have the correct size spare tube with me and having less of a choice in tires is something that appeals to me. I've tried 80% of the 650b tires out there and have my  favorites.Pacenti mtn. and Schwalbe Marathon.Also like the Fatty Rumpkin. If I was going to try that with 700c it would take forever and cost tons. There are alot of shitty tires out there. Maybe this is why Peter White prefers Schwalbe. The standards are high to make a good 650b tire because there are so few.   

[Bob]

Why I prefer 700c to 650b: I have a backup set of wheels that I can
pop on my bike that have Schwalbe ice tires (studded) mounted. What a
luxury to have those when I wake up with ice on the road.

While I'm sure somewhere in a parallel universe there are 650b
studdies, I have never seen them, and I sure as shoot wouldn't have
been able to order them from Amazon for a song, as I did.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 05:51 -0800, Bob wrote:

> While I'm sure somewhere in a parallel universe there are 650b
> studdies, I have never seen them, and I sure as shoot wouldn't have
> been able to order them from Amazon for a song, as I did.

Actually, studded 650B snow tires are available in this universe. Peter
White has the Nokian A10, $54 ea
http://peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

I'm not sure there are any studded snow tires, 622 or any other size,
available "for a song."

[Bob]

They've risen a bit:
http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Marathon-Winter-Studded-Allround/dp/B001K72VO0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322316544&sr=8-1

No 650Bs, though.

On Nov 26, 2:00 pm, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 05:51 -0800, Bob wrote:
> > While I'm sure somewhere in a parallel universe there are 650b
> > studdies, I have never seen them, and I sure as shoot wouldn't have
> > been able to order them from Amazon for a song, as I did.
>
> Actually, studded 650B snow tires are available in this universe.  Peter

> White has the Nokian A10, $54 eahttp://peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

[Bob]

For me, a "song" is the price of those studded tires versus going down
for sure on the ice, and sliding under an automobile wheel.

Singing . . .

[Philip Williamson]

As an investment, it makes sense to build the dynamo wheel in 700c,
since you can use it more easily on your other bikes, and it would be
easier to sell. I would build the new dynamo front wheel with 700c,
and rebuild the rear wheels later. You could use a puffier tire in
front to keep everything level. Kind of weird, sure, but not as weird
as having a trike. :^)

I just built a 700c dynamo wheel I can theoretically move between 4
household bikes (two have dynamos already). The one I want to use it
on... well, I should have used a much wider rim.

Philip

On Nov 25, 2:03 pm, Bertin753 <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here is the dilemma: I want to build a new front wheel with a dynohub; the question is, given that I have to pay for a new build in any case and that I aleady own both 630 and 622 rims, whether I ought to just do it all at once and switch to 622, a change which will give me far more tire choice. If it were simply a matter of replacing the existing tires, I'd probably just use 630mm Paselas.
>
> OTOH, if there were a selection of top quality tires available in 630mm, that too would be a reason to stay with the existing size.
>
> But for a long term investment, given that an investment has to  be made, and, #2, given that there is only decent 630 tire and that even this may not be available forever, I expect that it would be prudent to switch to 700C. Right?
>
> Patrick Moore
> Typed with one finger on my
> iphone
>

[PATRICK MOORE]

Hey, I heard that!

Patrick "weirdo" Moore, about to go off on a Rio Grande trail trike ride in sunny, low-40s, blustery ABQ, NM, where trikes are perfectly acceptable, thank you very much.

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Philip Williamson <philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

You could use a puffier tire in front to keep everything level. Kind of weird, sure, but not as weird
as having a trike. :^)

[velomann]

I keep thinking of making the conversion to 700 on my commuter/
distance bike (86 Nishiki Riviera GT). My wife's Bridgestone T700 also
currently runs 27's. But I keep finding really nice inexpensive (read:
free) 27" wheels, so... I started running Paselas last year and really
liked the feel but had flatting issues. I switched to 27 x 1-1/4
Pasela Tourguards this year and love them. So long as I can find them
and they keep going on sale, I see no compelling reason to switch
these bikes to 700c. And a 650b conversion - on these bikes - is not
in the cards as they both sport cantilever brakes.

Mike

>  image.png
> 1985KViewDownload

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sat, 2011-11-26 at 10:51 -0800, velomann wrote:
> I keep thinking of making the conversion to 700 on my commuter/
> distance bike (86 Nishiki Riviera GT). My wife's Bridgestone T700 also
> currently runs 27's. But I keep finding really nice inexpensive (read:
> free) 27" wheels, so... I started running Paselas last year and really
> liked the feel but had flatting issues. I switched to 27 x 1-1/4
> Pasela Tourguards this year and love them. So long as I can find them
> and they keep going on sale, I see no compelling reason to switch
> these bikes to 700c.

In which case I doubt you will ever make the conversion.

[PATRICK MOORE]

Thanks; many suggestions for the Paselas. I found the Tourguards rather doggy but the 559X32 non-Tourguards were OK. We'll see -- perhaps I'll just postpone building any new wheels this year and buy a set of regular Paselas after Xmas on sale; perhaps next year for 700c wheels plus Grand Bois Cypres or the other model whose name I now forget -- plus dynohub front.

Speaking of tires: the tires now on the KR are belted ("aramid") IRC 630X28s and dammit if I didn't get four (goathead flats just now in ~27 miles on a circuit of the Rio Grande path; all in the rear. Not only am I dragging another wheel around back there but the right one sits off to the side where debris -- and goatheads -- congregate. Fortunately I carried three tubes and a full size pump, and leak #4 was a slow one that allowed me to get the five miles home before the tire got soft. 

Fortunately, though, the goatheads seem to be worst south of Central; in the NW quadrant where I do most of my riding, path and streets, I've not been nearly so plagued for a long time.