650B -Grand Bois Cypres tire
John McMurry
based on theory. I was wrong.
http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/msg/ca91f41f70f6d57a
I now have a few hundred miles on a pair of 584X32mm (actual 30mm)
Grand Bois Cypres tires (same wheels, bicycle, etc.) and can
positively say, with back to back comparison, that there is a
noticeable difference in feel between the similar Maxy Fasty tires.
The most accurate comparison I can provide is: The Maxy Fasty's feel
like riding over suede whereas the Cypres' feel like riding over
velvet.
Of course, the Cypres' lighter casing and thinner tread is a trade off
for durability. That analysis is for each rider to determine on their
own. For me, that means riding the MF's for utility, errands,
commuting, and shorter rides; and saving the Cypres for my longer,
weekend rides.
Just wanted to set the record straight and acknowledge my previous
error.
John McMurry
Burlington, VT
GeorgeS
clincher I've ever ridden. Seems to me comparable to the way a good
more robust tubular like a Clement Paris-Robaix used to feel. But
that's so long ago and my memory is so bad that my credibility is, as
they say in court, "suspect." In any event, I really like the tire.
They are definitely not as puncture resistant as the tires they
replaced - RuffyTuffys. Several flats in 200 miles. Small bits of
glass. For now the trade-off is worth it.
GeorgeS
Rocky.Bondad
my wife's Bleriot. She mainly rides on the weekends and I want to get
her nice comfy fast tires. I hear so many great reviews for both
Grand Bois tires.
Jan Heine
Regarding Bicycle Quarterly's tire tests, the statistical analysis of
our results showed that the differences we found were real, not some
artifacts of changes in conditions or in rider position. Anybody who
wants to criticize the results of the tests needs to look at the
statistics and figure out how they were flawed.
Both the Grand Bois and the Maxy-Fasty were tested several times, and
always came out the same. I am confident in our results, just as I am
confident in the test results that showed that higher pressure (beyond
a certain point) does not provide a worth-while increase in speed.
Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
140 Lakeside Ave #C
Seattle WA 98122
http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
Gino Zahnd
than one flat for every 100 miles I rode with that tire. In my book,
that is completely unacceptable.
On the other hand, I've been riding the Hetre on my Saluki for >500
miles now, and have yet to flat, even with a good amount of mixed
terrain riding in thorny Chico and Mt. Lassen/northern Sierras. Aside
from the better durability, I'll also stick my neck out and say that
the Hetre is hands down the most comfortable tire I've ever ridden.
It's fast, quiet, and durable. If you can stomach the cost of the
Hetre, they're certainly at the top of the 650b tire heap.
Gino
Chico, CA
Patrick in VT
wrote:
I'm a hair under 160 and switch between the hetre and cypres fairly
often - at my weight, both tires feel decadent. in other words,
saying that the hetre is more comfortable than the cypres ain't saying
much, esp. if the majority of riding is being done on paved roads.
On my rando bike, I save the cypres for brevets and ride the hetre for
everything else (although i did do a 350k and 400k on the hetre this
year - it performed better than I thought, but the cypres is still my
favorite when speed is a factor).
Something else to consider - the hetre has a much longer life than the
cypres. If she starts riding more than just mostly weekends, you
might want to go with the hetre.
pali...@his.com
Also, the Hetre is a better tire for dirt road riding.
David Estes
{snip}
And I can keep going when the pavement ends.
Jan Heine
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA
pali...@his.com
>
> On smooth paved roads, the difference between the Hetre (650B x 40 mm
> actual) and the Cypres (650B x 30 mm actual) is minimal. Once the
> roads get rough, the Hetre absorbs bigger bumps (expansion joints,
> frost heaves, chipseal, potholes) better. On unpaved roads, the Cypres
> is fine, but the Hetre is better, especially on deep gravel.
>
> Regarding flats, Gino had bad luck in his area with the Cypres. I get
> around 2000 miles between flats here in Seattle, compared to about
> 3000 miles for a Rivendell Rolly-Poly. It all depends where you ride
> and how you ride. From what I hear, the Hetre does appear more flat-
> proof. I haven't had a flat on mine yet, but I have only ridden them
> about 3000 miles. Speed-wise, there probably is little between these
> tires, especially once the Hetre's thicker tread wears down a bit.
How did you like Peter Weigle's (alias "JP Wiggle, the Barber") shaved Hetres?
Steve Palincsar
> In my experience, the Cypres was very prone to puncture. I had more
> than one flat for every 100 miles I rode with that tire. In my book,
> that is completely unacceptable.
>
> On the other hand, I've been riding the Hetre on my Saluki for >500
> miles now, and have yet to flat, even with a good amount of mixed
> terrain riding in thorny Chico and Mt. Lassen/northern Sierras. Aside
> from the better durability, I'll also stick my neck out and say that
> the Hetre is hands down the most comfortable tire I've ever ridden.
> It's fast, quiet, and durable. If you can stomach the cost of the
> Hetre, they're certainly at the top of the 650b tire heap.
>
What's so hard to bear about the price of the Hetre? The Michelin
Pro3Race 700x23 costs that much, for less than half the material!
Gino Zahnd
plush 650b tires for less than $20 (CDLV). They don't offer the same
performance, but they do get you there in comfort, and last this side
of forever. It's mostly that context that I was speaking to.
Cheers,
Gino
Steve Palincsar
> Well if one were budget-minded or budget-impaired, one could purchase
> plush 650b tires for less than $20 (CDLV). They don't offer the same
> performance, but they do get you there in comfort, and last this side
> of forever. It's mostly that context that I was speaking to.
Well, here we are in complete agreement. CdlVs do last a long time and
hold up well in poor conditions, and they're a real bargain. I switched
my Saluki to Hetres, but the new P/R, which will be built as a
porteur/city bike is getting CdlVs.
franklyn
attention when people talk about 650b general purpose tires. I have
had them for 4 months and 1000 miles on my commuter and not a single
problem. They measure fairly close to the hetre in width on synergy
rims (40mm) and they are fairly silent, especially after the initial
period of wear. I have used it on a few mixed-terrain rides and they
grip fairly well in shallow gravel and semi-wet dirt paths. They are
not as fast as the hetres, but they are also plenty comfortable and
puncture proof. I got them for $22.50 a piece (not foldable) from
Universal Cycles in Portland. I love my Hetres and Cypres, but I love
the FR as a do-it-all tire
Franklyn
JL
switch between them and Hetres on my Saluki - depending oh how much
time I am spending off paved roads. They are similar enough in size
that either pair fits underneath my fenders with the same fender
line. Hetres are, hands down, the best tire I have ever used. The
FRs, for what they offer, are near the top too.
Jason
Timothy Whalen
Tim
Patrick in VT
> I ride the Fatty Rumpkins a lot on my Bleriot, agree with the coments about them, and have wondered about the Hetres. Which of the two is best for mostly dirt roads would you think?<
reasonably fast rolling road tire that also happens to excel on dirt
because of it's size. i suppose that statement works in reverse too -
it's a dirt road tire that also happens to excel on the road because
it rolls reasonably fast.
which tire is better on dirt? well, both are obviously comfortable at
40mm. although in my experience, the casings on the GB tires make
things more comfortable than other tires - just as Juan McMurry stated
above. both seem durable by all accounts. so, that leaves
performance - and i'd be surprised if the fatty rumpkin was as fast a
tire as the hetre over any terrain.
but on the dirt, i'm not sure this even matters. i guess it depends
on how comfortable and fast one needs/wants to be - certainly, it's
only a matter of degrees. small degrees. a 40 tire is comfy. and i
don't think many folks on this list are looking to race on dirt
roads.
in any event, my buddies ride anywhere between 28-35 on dirt roads,
which we spend a lot of time on. we're all comfortable, and we don't
need to slow down "when the pavement ends."
Seth Vidal
>
> On Jun 16, 8:58 am, Timothy Whalen <whalen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I ride the Fatty Rumpkins a lot on my Bleriot, agree with the coments about them, and have wondered about the Hetres. Which of the two is best for mostly dirt roads would you think?<
>
> what makes the hetre unique is that it can rightly be considered a
> reasonably fast rolling road tire that also happens to excel on dirt
> because of it's size. i suppose that statement works in reverse too -
> it's a dirt road tire that also happens to excel on the road because
> it rolls reasonably fast.
>
> which tire is better on dirt? well, both are obviously comfortable at
> 40mm. although in my experience, the casings on the GB tires make
> things more comfortable than other tires - just as Juan McMurry stated
> above. both seem durable by all accounts. so, that leaves
> performance - and i'd be surprised if the fatty rumpkin was as fast a
> tire as the hetre over any terrain.
>
It's interesting to me. The explanation that Jan gave as to why there
is no 700c version of the hetre is the lack of bikes that can take a
700x42 tire. Given that a lot of 700c riv riders can take a 42mm tire
I wonder if there is enough of a market to justify a 700c hetre. I
know I'd be willing to buy a pair if they were available.
oh and incase no one has looked it looks like the hetre now comes in
white, in addition to red and black.
-sv
Jan Heine
The explanation that Jan gave as to why there
> is no 700c version of the hetre is the lack of bikes that can take a
> 700x42 tire. Given that a lot of 700c riv riders can take a 42mm tire
> I wonder if there is enough of a market to justify a 700c hetre. I
> know I'd be willing to buy a pair if they were available.
because Grand Bois needed them for their custom bikes, and couldn't
find suitable products made by others. In Japan, there are few people
who ride a 700C tire wider than 30 mm, so there is no perceived need
for wider 700C tires. If you want wider tires, Grand Bois prefers 650B
wheels, just like most of the French constructeurs did. For the same
reason, there won't be Grand Bois 27" tires - that size is virtually
unknown in Japan.
Seth Vidal
>
> On Jun 16, 7:23 am, Seth Vidal <skvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The explanation that Jan gave as to why there
>> is no 700c version of the hetre is the lack of bikes that can take a
>> 700x42 tire. Given that a lot of 700c riv riders can take a 42mm tire
>> I wonder if there is enough of a market to justify a 700c hetre. I
>> know I'd be willing to buy a pair if they were available.
>
> The Grand Bois tires, like all Grand Bois products, were introduced
> because Grand Bois needed them for their custom bikes, and couldn't
> find suitable products made by others. In Japan, there are few people
> who ride a 700C tire wider than 30 mm, so there is no perceived need
> for wider 700C tires. If you want wider tires, Grand Bois prefers 650B
> wheels, just like most of the French constructeurs did. For the same
> reason, there won't be Grand Bois 27" tires - that size is virtually
> unknown in Japan.
I understood the reason, I was just wondering if there was enough of a
market among rivendell (and probably kogswell and surly) 700c riders
to justify making a 700c hetre.
I hope I didn't come across wrong, I don't doubt your explanation, I
was just hopeful that perhaps someone on this list had enough of a
connection to someone at grand bois to float the idea of a 700c hetre
by them.
Nevertheless, thanks,
-sv
Jan Heine
On Jun 16, 8:45 am, Seth Vidal <skvi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope I didn't come across wrong, I don't doubt your explanation, I
> was just hopeful that perhaps someone on this list had enough of a
> connection to someone at grand bois to float the idea of a 700c hetre
> by them.
tires are planned. The molds for the existing tires need to be
amortized first. If something comes along, I suspect it'll be a 650B x
38 mm, which is a true hole in the current lineups of tires.
Rick
enjoying them through some mixed trail/road business and my regular
commute. Had to remove the fenders, mine were cut to accomodate the
CdlVs, and were a smidgen too small for the fatty's. So for right
now, the bleriot is in its top-down summer mode, unless I do something
rash and snag some new fenders that would take fatty's/hetres.
On that front, I'm guessing my options include VO zeppelins and the
larger Honjos Jitensha carries?
pali...@his.com
>
> I've had the fatty rumpkins on for a couple of weeks now and have been
> enjoying them through some mixed trail/road business and my regular
> commute. Had to remove the fenders, mine were cut to accomodate the
> CdlVs, and were a smidgen too small for the fatty's. So for right
> now, the bleriot is in its top-down summer mode, unless I do something
> rash and snag some new fenders that would take fatty's/hetres.
>
> On that front, I'm guessing my options include VO zeppelins and the
> larger Honjos Jitensha carries?
Yes. Also BQ carries the 58mm Honjos, including a hammered version
that Jitensha doesn't have. Here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/?start_tab=sets are some photos
of my Saluki with the 58mm Honjos from Jitensha (these are the fluted
ones) including detail of the mods I had to make to get the fenders to
fit at the chainstays. You'd have to do something similar with the
Bleriot.
pali...@his.com
I was afraid of that. Copied the wrong flickr URL. You'll find this
will work a lot better:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157617915097787/
My apologies.
clevewheel
a roll of one inch Gorilla tape and applying it to the inside of the
tire in the same way you'd apply the now very expensive Panaracer
Flataway. I have it on my Hetres and it's doing a fine job.
clevewheel
lack of experience regarding the narrower tire. The Hetre has changed
the way I ride in that it gives so much more stability. Descent is no
longer a white knuckle affair, but a joy. It is a very fast tire,
depending only on the engine. I don't know what the trail is on the
Bleriot, but putting a wider tire on it will change the steering - I
think for the better - but you should ask Jan Heine, who has far more
experience and understanding of the matter than I.
On Jun 11, 8:18 am, "Rocky.Bondad" <fundamental.bicyc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
GeorgeS
tapes? Do they change the feel of the tires? What's the tradeoff?
Thanks.
GeorgeS
>
> - Show quoted text -
pali...@his.com
>
> I highly recommend the Hetre, although I have to admit to complete
> lack of experience regarding the narrower tire. The Hetre has changed
> the way I ride in that it gives so much more stability. Descent is no
> longer a white knuckle affair, but a joy. It is a very fast tire,
> depending only on the engine. I don't know what the trail is on the
> Bleriot, but putting a wider tire on it will change the steering - I
> think for the better - but you should ask Jan Heine, who has far more
> experience and understanding of the matter than I.
>
The Bleriot is the same setup as the Saluki. I recently put Hetres on my
saluki and I'm thrilled with the result. Handling is the same as it
was, only the ride is far more plush. This is particularly noticeable
as the pavement quality deteriorates or the pavement disappears.
Also, the tire feels noticeably faster than the Col de la Vie or the
Ourson.
Rick
though, so there is an additional complication. Nice lighting set up,
by the way.
> > Yes. Also BQ carries the 58mm Honjos, including a hammered version
> > that Jitensha doesn't have. Here
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/organize/?start_tab=sets are some photos
> > of my Saluki with the 58mm Honjos from Jitensha (these are the fluted
> > ones) including detail of the mods I had to make to get the fenders to
> > fit at the chainstays. You'd have to do something similar with the
> >Bleriot.
>
> I was afraid of that. Copied the wrong flickr URL. You'll find this
> will work a lot better: http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157617915097787/