650A vs 650B, Honjo hammered fenders
fug...@gmail.com
good reasons. What do you think ?
Also, which Honjo hammered fenders fit 650A, where to get them ?
Thanks, Doug
Doug Van Cleve
No first hand experience with either wheel outside a of Raleigh Sports
that I rebuilt the 650A wheels for with alloy rims. If you think the
arguments for 650A make sense, then go with it. Any 650B fender
should work fine on 650A, the difference is only a few mms.
Doug
Steve Palincsar
> Hi, I'm getting a Bleriot built. My builder suggests 650A for some
> good reasons. What do you think ?
What tires do you want to use? What size(s) do they come in?
> Also, which Honjo hammered fenders fit 650A, where to get them ?
Jitensha and Velo Orange sell Honjo fenders to fit 650B. Since there's
all of 3mm difference in radius between 650A & 650B, for most purposes,
including fenders, you could think of them as the same.
--
Steve Palincsar
pali...@his.com
Alexandria, VA, USA
Tom Lettington
Bill Connell
>
> >Hi, I'm getting a Bleriot built. My builder suggests 650A for some
> >good reasons. What do you think ?
> >Also, which Honjo hammered fenders fit 650A, where to get them ?
> >Thanks, Doug
>
> Can you share with us what those "good reasons" are?
I don't know Doug's reasons, but i remember Matthew at Kogswell
pushing for 650A when his P/R model was first in the works. If you're
going for a more utilitarian build, the rims and tires are cheaper,
and there's no difference when it comes to brakes and fenders because
the sizes are so close. There are higher quality 650B tires and rims
available, and that's the way to go if you're more particular about
the tires you use.
--
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN
Jon Cameron
Someone commented that there was only three millimeters difference
between 650A and 650B. My understanding is that 650A has a BSD of
571mm while 650B has a BSD of 584mm. That's a thirteen millimeter
difference, not three.
I'd really like to hear those "good reasons" mentioned by your
builder, because I'm not at all convinced. The Bleriot is designed
around 650B as the wheel size. There are currently a significant
number of tire sizes and shapes available for it, with more on the
way. If your builder is VERY familiar with 650B and still has good
reasons for recommending 650A please tell us. My suspicion is that
while he or she is probably very well intentioned, they may not be at
all familiar.
In today's race centric cycling world, 650A has become all about time
trialing. You'll find a very limited selection of hard skinny tires
for this size. Again, it's all about racing against the clock. Between
the smaller rim BSD and the really small tires, any of the current
range of fenders will be radiused for a much larger diameter and will
leave huge gaps between fender and tire.
If your intent is indeed to ride time trials, then perhaps one of the
many time trial bikes available would better suit your need. If, on
the other hand you want a "country bike", then the Bleriot is perfect,
as long as you use the correct size wheels. And that is 650B. I have
lots of bikes.....and my Bleriot is the one I ride most. 650B. Jon
Cameron.
Doug Van Cleve
You're confusing 650C and 650A. 650C = 571mm and is primarily used
for small road bikes and tri bikes. 650A = 590mm and is used on
utility bikes and some Japanese rando bikes.
Doug
Ryan Watson
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008, Jon Cameron wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Someone commented that there was only three millimeters difference
> between 650A and 650B. My understanding is that 650A has a BSD of
> 571mm while 650B has a BSD of 584mm. That's a thirteen millimeter
> difference, not three.
650B=584mm
650A=590mm
That 6mm difference, but only 3mm in radius (which is what matters for
fenders/brakes)
Personally, I like the idea of 700D (right in the middle at 587mm and
will fit both sizes)
You can ride your fancy-pants Grand Bois 650B, but still pick up a cheap
650A at the local bike-n-lawnmower shop in an emergency!
P. Lynn of CTA was considering having Velocity do a run of 587 bsd rims
for such dual-size applications. Otherwise, there are old Araya RM20s out
there and they're usually cheap.
Cheers,
Ryan
Jon Cameron
Oops, my bad. I'm used to calling 650A EA3. I also have an old Robin
Hood Sports English three speed from 1957. Love that bike too, but
still don't think the tire selection available today is anywhere near
as good as what we currently find in 650B. Apologies to all for my
earlier mistake. Jon Cameron.
On Feb 23, 10:12 am, "Doug Van Cleve" <dvancl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey John,
>
> You're confusing 650C and 650A. 650C = 571mm and is primarily used
> for small road bikes and tri bikes. 650A = 590mm and is used on
> utility bikes and some Japanese rando bikes.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > Someone commented that there was only three millimeters difference
> > between 650A and 650B. My understanding is that 650A has a BSD of
> > 571mm while 650B has a BSD of 584mm. That's a thirteen millimeter
>
> - Show quoted text -
CycloFiend
>
> In today's race centric cycling world, 650A has become all about time
> trialing. You'll find a very limited selection of hard skinny tires
> for this size. Again, it's all about racing against the clock. Between
> the smaller rim BSD and the really small tires, any of the current
> range of fenders will be radiused for a much larger diameter and will
> leave huge gaps between fender and tire.
I beleive you may be thinking about 650C/571 wheels, which live on these
days primarily as a Triathlete-bike wheel size. The 650A/590 is a larger
profile/utility type with a BSD of 590.
http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
On the more general topic boards, there's been a push to use BSD to avoid
this type of confusion.
-- Jim
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David Faller
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Atlantean
As to the advantages of 650A at this point in time, the only one I can
think of is the possibility of finding a tire in a pinch, at a bigger
bike shop or even some big box stores. Of course, such tires are
usually in the $8 tire category, but that can be a whole lot better
than no tire. I looked over at Harris, and there is an encouraging
selection of tires there for 650A, which is quite a change, but still,
if I were remodeling an old English 3 speed or such like, I think I'd
go with the 650B rims just for the better selection of rims and tires.
As noted already, the difference in rim size is trivial for the most
part, except when it comes time to actually mount a tire!
Ryan Watson
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008, Atlantean wrote:
>
> As noted already, the difference in rim size is trivial for the most
> part, except when it comes time to actually mount a tire!
As illustrated here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7556426@N06/2241689325/
Ryan
Steve Palincsar
> on 2/23/08 8:06 AM, Jon Cameron at j.came...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
>
>>In today's race centric cycling world, 650A has become all about time
>>trialing. You'll find a very limited selection of hard skinny tires
>>for this size. Again, it's all about racing against the clock. Between
>>the smaller rim BSD and the really small tires, any of the current
>>range of fenders will be radiused for a much larger diameter and will
>>leave huge gaps between fender and tire.
>
>
> I beleive you may be thinking about 650C/571 wheels, which live on these
> days primarily as a Triathlete-bike wheel size. The 650A/590 is a larger
> profile/utility type with a BSD of 590.
571 also happens to be the preferred size for women-specific-design
frames that need something smaller than 622 (aka 700C). Contrary to the
expectations of some who believe 559 is the One Universal Size and all
we need to supplement 622, it never caught on for smaller size road
frames, and I've never heard a convincing explanation why.
Ryan Watson
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> 571 also happens to be the preferred size for women-specific-design
> frames that need something smaller than 622 (aka 700C). Contrary to the
> expectations of some who believe 559 is the One Universal Size and all
> we need to supplement 622, it never caught on for smaller size road
> frames, and I've never heard a convincing explanation why.
571 bikes usually can be easily converted to 559 which gives you room for
more rubber and/or fenders. It's like a 650B conversion for small riders!
Ryan
Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
on the Bleriot, especially for a budget build, especially for
widespread tire availability (as noted). Also, you can do 40h 590
wheel on a Sun CR-18, but I'm not aware of a decent 40h 650B rim
(yet).The argument that the only 590 tires are low-end is wrong.
Schwalbe in particular makes a wide variety of 590 tires. I have some
great Conti Top Touring tires (sadly discontinued) in that size on my
3-speed. As if that wasn't enough, there are more sidewall colors
available in 590. Plus, it's unique, and that's worth something. You
can't swing a dead cat without hitting a 650B bike anymore.
On conversions of older frames there are instances where a 590 would
work with XL reach brakes while a 584 would not.
Our shop sells more 650B bikes, wheels, tires, etc than most, but I
think 650A has its place (it should be admitted that my coworkers
think I'm a nut).
Steve Palincsar
> I've long thought 590 (aka 650A aka 26x1-3/8) made sense as an option
> on the Bleriot, especially for a budget build, especially for
> widespread tire availability (as noted). Also, you can do 40h 590
> wheel on a Sun CR-18, but I'm not aware of a decent 40h 650B rim
> (yet).
Why would you need that 40h rim? Loaded touring? Certainly, for
ordinary run of the mill purposes including riding gravel roads, for one
of the "0.1 tons and above" club, a 650B x 32 spoke rim is entirely
adequate. I've got 12,000+ miles counting my two 32-spoke 650B bikes,
and I've never had a broken spoke.
If, as they say, 32 spokes on a 26 inch rim == 36 spokes on a 700C rim,
then 40 spokes on a 26 inch wheel would have to be approximately the
equivalent of 48 on a 700C; that's tandem territory. And honestly, if
you're spec'ing parts for a 650B tandem, the obvious tire of choice is
the Grand Bois Hetre, wouldn't you agree?
> The argument that the only 590 tires are low-end is wrong.
> Schwalbe in particular makes a wide variety of 590 tires. I have some
> great Conti Top Touring tires (sadly discontinued) in that size on my
> 3-speed. As if that wasn't enough, there are more sidewall colors
> available in 590. Plus, it's unique, and that's worth something. You
> can't swing a dead cat without hitting a 650B bike anymore.
I never thought I'd hear /that/ argument!
> On conversions of older frames there are instances where a 590 would
> work with XL reach brakes while a 584 would not.
>
> Our shop sells more 650B bikes, wheels, tires, etc than most, but I
> think 650A has its place (it should be admitted that my coworkers
> think I'm a nut).
Oh, I certainly agree. The Raleigh Sports and Superbe 26" 3-speeds are
wonderful bikes for their purpose. I like them as much as Sheldon did.
It's their size, and I'm all for seeing them on the road forever.
Steve Palincsar
> Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
>
>>I've long thought 590 (aka 650A aka 26x1-3/8) made sense as an option
>>on the Bleriot, especially for a budget build, especially for
>>widespread tire availability (as noted). Also, you can do 40h 590
>>wheel on a Sun CR-18, but I'm not aware of a decent 40h 650B rim
>>(yet).
>
>
> Why would you need that 40h rim? Loaded touring? Certainly, for
> ordinary run of the mill purposes including riding gravel roads, for one
> of the "0.1 tons and above" club, a 650B x 32 spoke rim is entirely
> adequate. I've got 12,000+ miles counting my two 32-spoke 650B bikes,
> and I've never had a broken spoke.
<smack upside the head> Of course! You need a 40 hole rim because for
probably the first sixty years of the 20th century, the standard setup
for English 3-speeds was a 40-hole rear hub, and a 32 spoke front hub.
That makes perfect sense for those bikes, because they have a very
pronounced rearward bias in terms of load, due to their upright riding
position, and because the Sturmey Archer hubs for them typically came in
40 hole versions. So sure, you need such rims in the EA3 size.
But would you ever really set up a Bleriot quite that way?
Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
Bleriot instead of 32h or 36h. The point is that you can do it with
650A, but you can't do it with 650B (there is a 40h 650B rim, but it's
pretty bad).
David Estes
DE
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA
PATRICK MOORE
Hi,
Someone commented that there was only three millimeters difference
between 650A and 650B. My understanding is that 650A has a BSD of
571mm while 650B has a BSD of 584mm. That's a thirteen millimeter
difference, not three.
650A -- 590 mm. 650B -- 684 mm. 650C -- 571 mm.
650As come on 3 speed type bikes (exceptions, I know, there are exceptions).
My custom Riv Roads are designed for both 559 and 571 wheels.