is it blasphemous to ask how you think a Roadini would compare to a Crust Malocchio?

[eddietheflay]

Seems the Crust would be more road racy and the Riv more long, relaxed and multi purpose. I know we're not supposed to talk about weight but I can't help wondering if there's much difference one vs the other. Just wondering.

[Bill Lindsay]

In the subject line the question was asked "is it blasphemous to ask how you think a Roadini would compare to a Crust Malocchio?"

No, I don't think it's blasphemous to ask that.  I think they are very different bikes for sure.  

Then the OP goes on to say "I know we're not supposed to talk about weight but..."

I think you misunderstand.  Lighter is almost always better, all else being equal.  Everyone knows this.  If everybody had a gravity knob on their bike, we would all peg it to the minimum.  That's a fact.  Lighter bikes are easier to carry.  Some people prefer the feel of a lighter bike because they can "throw it around" more.  The thing that gets contentious is when people make statements like "That particular bike weighs X, therefore it is a heavy slow pig, and nobody can be happy riding that tank".  Or when people say "I have a 22-pound road bike and I love it but I can't keep up with the club rides, so I'm looking for a 18-pound road bike because it'll go 5MPH faster".  

It's fine to want a light bike, or to be curious about what a bike weighs.  When I do a "light build" I weigh every part, because I want to know.  I know that whatever it weighs, it's going to go a teeny tiny bit faster than if it were heavier.  The exchange rate is 12 pounds per MPH.  Some people get mad that the exchange rate is 12 pounds per MPH.  They want to claim "no way.  I upgraded my road bike and dropped the weight by 1.5 pounds and now it's WAY faster".  The pointless discussion argument is claiming light weight --> much faster.  Just leave it at "I want a lighter bike because I feel like it". It's fine to decide "I don't want to buy a Roadini because I don't feel like buying a >20 pound road bike".  

Anyway, the reported weight of the Malocchio is very low.  They claim frame and fork combined are under 6 pounds.  Even with a headset it may still be a hair under 6 pounds.  My Rivendell Legolas weighed 6.30 pounds frame+fork+headset, and that's about as light a frame as Rivendell can make.  My Roadini weighed 7.75 pounds for frame + fork + headset.  

If you feel like building up an 18-pound road bike, it'll be a lot easier to accomplish on a Malocchio than a Leo Roadini.  Aside from their weight, I think they are very different bikes.  Most people see "different" and want to decide which is better.  I see "different" and use it as an excuse to buy one of each, and enjoy the differences :)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA 

[DavidP]

Ronnie Romance has some thoughts (including weight) over at ronsbikesblog.

I think you've basically summed it up. Though the Malocchio is more road racy when compared to the the Roadini, in the grand scheme it's geometry is still endurance biased. The tubing on the Malocchio is very lightweight.. I recently picked up a prototype 57cm frameset that weighs 6lbs (frame/fork/headset).

-Dave

[exliontamer]

I'm currently selling a pre-production XL Malocchio & have actually ridden both...and am looking for a 57cm Roadini. They are very different. The Malocchio is incredibly lightweight. My XL, which is technically a 63cm frame, weighs 6.3 lbs for the frame, fork, and headset with spacers. I can say from the experience of owning a lot of XL steel frames that it's at least a pound lighter all together than any classic lightweight steel bike I've owned in that size (62cm & up).

As to the ride the Malocchio rides like a straight up road bike (my points of comparison are my old RB-1 & my old Bianchi Reparto Corse with EL/OS). It just happens to fit 42s (at least the pre-production model does) & is aluminum light. I feel like people trying to pigeonhole the Roadini has been beat into the ground so I'm not going to compare the two other than saying they ride very different. The Malocchio is very responsive & the Roadini (to me) rides like a springy Riv. 

As to one being more or less multi-purpose? It really depends on what you want to do and how you like a bike to fit & feel. 42 width tires can take you a lot of places.

[eddietheflay]

Truth be told I prefer as much stack as possible due to needing bars significantly above saddle height. I could do that with the Crust but my stem might look like it's touching the sky. Of course as mentioned above I know I like light better but the Riv geo is better for my fit and aesthetic preferences. Headtube on Crust is typical old style short and I think (while not quoted by Riv) that the Roadini is taller.

[DavidP]

Yes, much - https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5bb29e327581960016665a32,6207ee4bee32e9001d9b652c,

[exliontamer]

The Roadini stack is much higher than the Malocchio which is the combination of mostly Roadini's head tube angle, seat tube angle, top tube slope, and head tube length. I don't think the Malocchio is abnormal but it gets into preference. It's a common setup with Rivs but not everyone likes drops to be level with the saddle. Here's a photo of the setup I had with an 81cm saddle height.

[eddietheflay]

Yes that geo diagram is what my fit requirements are all about. 

[Piaw Na]

Tire size should be the determining factor. If you don't need anything more than 35mm on the rear the lighter bike is better. I'm a big fan of low BBs, and the 700c version of the Malocchio fits the bill, but I think I'd be unhappy about not being able to run 700x40mm Terra Speeds, so overall I'm happy I went with the Roadini.

I'm also bothered by the non-matching front and rear brakes --- it's clear that they screwed up on the manufacturing on the Malocchio, which also means that I'm not so sure I'd trust them on the rest of the bike being to spec. Then again, the slipping seatpost on the Roadini bothers me too --- nobody's perfect.

On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 12:27:08 PM UTC-7 eddietheflay wrote:

[Tim Tetrault]

I enjoy Bill's thoughts especially here; everyone is a "weight weenie" (or should feel free to be) in their own way.

I have a Sam H., it's on the heavy side, but I'd love to swap out for some Paselas (vs. Marathons) and a lighter carry-along lock (I have an Abus Bordo) just to see how the fun factor changes. 

Tim

[Bill Lindsay]

Weight Weenie update.  A frame set on my wish list for future fun builds included a classic Vitus 979.  

I had one as a teenager and did a pretty aggressive weight weenie build on it.  One of the weight weenie maneuvers was to run the smallest frame size I could conceivably ride, and that made the bike not very fun to ride, so I barely rode it.  The Vitus 979 size was a "54".  That was more like 55.5 cm center to top.  

A few years later while working at Missing Link we got a Vitus Carbone in on trade in.  I scooped up the bike, sold off most of the vintage parts on a new secondhand sales platform in 1999 called ebay.  I then did a weight weenie commuter build on it, and had it a hair under 14.5 pounds.  I commuted on that bike a lot and it was tons of fun.  I can't remember how exactly it left my possession.  

I just picked up a 979 in a more grown up "58" which should fit me like an adult bike should.  For fun I weighed it, and the frame is 1532g (3.38 lbs) and the fork is 531g (1.17 lbs).  That's 4.55 lbs frame + fork.  We'll see what kind of build I can pull together on this platform.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[eddietheflay]

I ended up buying a 59cm Malocchio. I chose mythological light weight over build aesthetics. Due to old neck bones I need bars above saddle and with the Crust's short headtube I require lots of quill. I found a filleted Nitto Faceplater that is a thing of beauty and gets the bars exactly where I need them...but alas not as aesthetically pleasing as let's say the geometry of a Roadini might offer. That being said I may be experiencing new bike-itis but a swear the Crust rides really really nicely. Shod with 35mm Panaracer Slicks the ride just seems light and springy. Granted, no science here but I have owned more than my fair share of bikes (70) over the last 20 years and the Crust appears to be a good one.

I'd like to see a Columbus Spirit tubed frameset just like the Malocchio with tigs, slanted top tube, threaded fork, and a nice powder coat at a reasonable price. Kinda like a BMW 2002 from the olden days.