Wheels for Bombadil and touring - suggestions needed

[Rene Sterental]

Hello again!

I spoke with Rich at Rivendell today, regarding a wheelset for my future Bombadil. He suggested XT hubs with either Mavic A319 rims or Velocity Dyads, in either a 32 or 36 hole configuration. I didn't ask him for what kind of spokes he'd use. The wheelset with the A319s is $430 and the wheelset with the Dyads is $400. He said the XT hubs were the best for the money, unless I wanted to pay several hundreds more.

Checking online, I can see the A319 is 25mm wide, good for tires up to 50mm; the Dyad is 24mm wide, so I guess it's about the same.

Does anyone have any feedback or suggestions? Should I go 32 holes or 36 holes? Mavic A319 or Dyad?

Any other hubs that would be significantly better than the XT hubs?

Thank you,

René

Orth...@yahoo.com

[cyclotourist]

We have a Dyad on our tandem and it's held up wonderfully.  I'd go with 36h for touring and trail use.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy

[Earl Grey]

Hi Rene,

could you tell us total maximum rider and luggage weight, what size
tires you'll run on road and off, and whether you'll be riding really
bad roads (I have dented two massive Araya rims on Ithaca potholes
[commuting after dark in the rain with mediocre lights]). Are you the
kind of guy who doesn't ever want hassle with his wheels for thousands
of miles, or are you happy to replace a rim if you hit a truly nasty
pothole in exchange for a slightly more responsive ride?

Cheers,

Gernot

On Nov 10, 12:47 pm, cyclotourist <cyclotour...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We have a Dyad on our tandem and it's held up wonderfully.  I'd go with 36h
> for touring and trail use.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Rene Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello again!
>
> > I spoke with Rich at Rivendell today, regarding a wheelset for my future
> > Bombadil. He suggested XT hubs with either Mavic A319 rims or Velocity
> > Dyads, in either a 32 or 36 hole configuration. I didn't ask him for what
> > kind of spokes he'd use. The wheelset with the A319s is $430 and the
> > wheelset with the Dyads is $400. He said the XT hubs were the best for the
> > money, unless I wanted to pay several hundreds more.
>
> > Checking online, I can see the A319 is 25mm wide, good for tires up to
> > 50mm; the Dyad is 24mm wide, so I guess it's about the same.
>
> > Does anyone have any feedback or suggestions? Should I go 32 holes or 36
> > holes? Mavic A319 or Dyad?
>
> > Any other hubs that would be significantly better than the XT hubs?
>
> > Thank you,
>
> > René

> > Orthie...@yahoo.com

[Garth]

Rims are a toss up ..... though I prefer A719's to A319 or Velocity.

Hubs better than XT's? Define "better" I suppose. The thing with
these hubs is the cone races are not replaceable.... making them
throwaways if the races are compromised.
I was burned once by the races of 105 hubs failing and won't use
Shimano throwaway hubs again.

Better hubs cost much more..... they are not for the budget
conscious. . . . but will last indefinitely as all parts are
replaceable. White and Phil Wood hubs come to mind.
You can buy 2 sets of cheap XT hub'd wheels though for the price of
one full retail PW cassette hub.
It's too bad there isn't much in between these high priced hubs and
the cheap Shimano hubs..... the only other cartridge bearing hubs
being Velocity's.

There's no right or wrong choices ..... just choices. This is life.
I don't bother with cassettes anymore though, and stick with Phil FW
hubs for their simplicity and choice of FW mechanism. This isn't for
everyone though, as I have a stock of FW's to last
for quite some time.

[newenglandbike]

Any time you have the option, given your choice of hub, get 36
holes. For the negligible rotating weight added by the 4 extra
spokes, the wheel gains *lots* of strength. This means less wheel
maintenance -> better peace of mind -> funner riding! :D

> Orthie...@yahoo.com

[Rene Sterental]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

To answer some of the questions, and clarify a mistake:

- Rich's options are for Dyads vs. A719s, not A319s; my mistake last night.

- I'm currently 265 lbs and have no idea how much or when I'll be packing whenever I manage to be able to go on a camping trip, or tour. However, even at my highest of 285 lbs, I have never damaged a wheel, either on the road or off-road. For years my mountain bikes ran the original Mavic CrossMax wheels with their lower spoke count and they never went out of true. On my carbon road bike, I've ridden Bontrager Race-X Lite for years with no problems at all, and I'm communting on Mavic Open Pro 32 wheels, also with no problems whatsoever. I must be what some people call a "light" rider... :-)

- I agree on the 36 spoke wheels for the Bombadil, and I guess it'll come down to price and overall budget when I narrow it down to the XT hubs vs. Phil Woods' hubs. My guess is that the XT hubs will give me very good service for what I'll be doing and that getting the PW hubs, while nice, will not be indispensable for me.

- The question on tires is a very good one, as I am completely beffuddled by all the 29" tire choices out there. On my AHH I'm running Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 35 tires and I like them a lot. It's the first time I've ever owned Schwalbe tires. On my mountain bike, I am now running Specialized 26" tires, a 2.3 Eskar Control on the front and a Captain Control 2.0 on the back and I like them a lot. I run them tubeless, and am considering whether to try and go tubeless on the Bombadil as well.

- These same tire choices are available as 29" options, and I feel inclined to go with them but can't say they are really the best option for the Bombadil. Since I'm getting the size 60, according to the Rivendell specs, I can run up to 2.3 tires with no issues.

 

I'm open to more suggestions, there is still some time before I have to make the final choices... :-)

 

Thanks again!

 

René

Orth...@yahoo.com

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Rene Sterental <orth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for all the feedback.
>

> - The question on tires is a very good one, as I am completely beffuddled by
> all the 29" tire choices out there. On my AHH I'm running Schwalbe Marathon
> Supreme 35 tires and I like them a lot. It's the first time I've ever owned
> Schwalbe tires. On my mountain bike, I am now running Specialized 26" tires,
> a 2.3 Eskar Control on the front and a Captain Control 2.0 on the back and I
> like them a lot. I run them tubeless, and am considering whether to try and
> go tubeless on the Bombadil as well.
> - These same tire choices are available as 29" options, and I feel inclined
> to go with them but can't say they are really the best option for the
> Bombadil. Since I'm getting the size 60, according to the Rivendell specs, I
> can run up to 2.3 tires with no issues.
>
> I'm open to more suggestions, there is still some time before I have to make
> the final choices... :-)

Buy a set of 35mm paselas and toss them on the AHH - see if they
magically make things even better than they are.

It's a $40 investment for a full bikes-worth of the non-tg,
non-folding paselas and they are a fantastic tire.

-sv

[Rene Sterental]

Do you think they are that superior to the Marathon Supremes?

[CycloFiend]

on 11/10/09 3:48 AM, Garth at gart...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Rims are a toss up ..... though I prefer A719's to A319 or Velocity.
>
> Hubs better than XT's? Define "better" I suppose. The thing with
> these hubs is the cone races are not replaceable.... making them
> throwaways if the races are compromised.
> I was burned once by the races of 105 hubs failing and won't use
> Shimano throwaway hubs again.

One of the differences between the grades are the better ones use hardened
races. I know the 105's and earlier LX's did not use hardend races, but the
current LX's may have been upgraded.

Although, I'm not sure I've seen replaceable races on any hubs. Are you
referring to hubs which use cartridge bearings?

- Jim

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

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"My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away with it.
That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful reflective
suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to
see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it."
-- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac"

[Seth Vidal]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Rene Sterental <orth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you think they are that superior to the Marathon Supremes?
>

"superior" includes a lot of characteristics.

I rode marathon's on my atlantis and while they were very resilient I
didn't enjoy them at all. I put paselas on the bike one day, just as a
test and it was like I got a whole new bike.

so in terms of ride quality, yes, I'd say the pasela is superior.

-sv

[Justin August]

My brother has an wheelset of XT hubs laced to Dyads. They have not
gone out of true in...2.5 years of heavy commuting on rutted streets
in San Francisco and a winter in Michigan carrying a bit of weight. If
I were going to make a focused touring bike I'd get the Dyads.

On Nov 10, 12:43 am, Rene Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Orthie...@yahoo.com

[Bruce]

I've had great success with a set of Rich built wheels using Dyads also. (Different hubs)

---

From: Justin August <justin...@gmail.com>
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 5:51:44 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: Wheels for Bombadil and touring - suggestions needed

[Rene Sterental]

Thanks! Dyad rims it will be, most likely with XT hubs, but we'll see what else I can sell in the meantime... :-)

It's amazing how many parts and miscellaneous cycling stuff one accumulates over the years...

René

[Boogarich]

I also had the Marathon Supremes on my Atlantis. I had the 40mm size
mounted on Mavic A719 rims. The tires cornered well and had a smooth
ride but I was not completely satisfied with the overall feel/
handling. I changed to 35mm Paselas on Velocity Synergy rims and the
bike rode much better. I put the Supremes/A719 wheels on my Salsa
Fargo and they feel great. Go figure.

Rich

On Nov 10, 11:31 am, Seth Vidal <skvi...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Doug Van Cleve]

I would probably go with Dyads and 32 spokes front, 36 rear on the XT hubs.  Decently maintained XTs will probably last indefinitely (or so long as to make it a moot point).  Any cartridge bearing hub will eventually need the bearings replaced and I don't think it is typically a home shop job.  If you are going to frequently front load the bike, maybe go 36/36 on the spokes, but front wheels are stronger (no dish) and less stressed...

Doug

[cyclotourist]

Phil hubs are quite serviceable at home or on the road with a pair of 5mm hex wrenches.

DE

[Rene Sterental]

I'll put trying the Paselas on the list of things to do... :-)

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Seth Vidal <skv...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Doug Van Cleve]

Oops, I was thinking of the old(er) ones...

Doug

[cyclotourist]

I love Phil hubs.  Worth every penny for something that will last a lifetime (or two!).

Just a bummer that they do cost so many pennies!!!

[Foon]

I agree. However, in my experience, the pasela sidewalls are just too
fragile. They are a pretty nice ride for the money, and look nice
too. But I won't buy them again if I have other choices. I have had
few ruined too soon because of the sidewall.

The marathon supremes are great tires, much lighter and faster than
the regular marathons. But, they are quite pricey (twice of what
paselas cost me)

Foon

On Nov 10, 11:31 am, Seth Vidal <skvi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Rene Sterental <orthie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do you think they are that superior to the Marathon Supremes?
>
> "superior" includes a lot of characteristics.

> -sv

[Rene Sterental]

I like how the Marathon Supremes ride, very smooth, fast and with great grip. They inspire a lot of confidence, but I'm sure the geometry and handling of the AHH play a significant role there as well.

If I get the chance, I'll try the Paselas. Otherwise, I need to wear down those Supremes as they were quite expensive! :-)

René