Re: [RBW] Digest for rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com - 25 Messages in 5 Topics

[Matthew Z.]

When did the Flying Pigeon become commercially viable Stateside? Was blindsided by a bit of email about the Flying Pigeon.  

Although I have to admit, I'd love to see Grant, et al produce a Rivendell-designed wine carrier. Although I doubt it would survive the sort of spirited riding many of us enjoy. 

http://www.theflyingpigeon.com/

Don't have the link on me, but he last picture, with the bottle actually touching the downtube, is quite amusing. Wine and glass shards pelting your shins, anyone?

Cheers,

Matthew Z

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2011-08-23 at 12:24 +0800, Matthew Z. wrote:
> When did the Flying Pigeon become commercially viable Stateside? Was
> blindsided by a bit of email about the Flying Pigeon.
>
>
> Although I have to admit, I'd love to see Grant, et al produce a
> Rivendell-designed wine carrier. Although I doubt it would survive the
> sort of spirited riding many of us enjoy.
>
>
> http://www.theflyingpigeon.com/

They started the blog July 2011.

[PATRICK MOORE]

They were offered by someone in the US a few years ago, too; perhaps
by the same company, pre-blog and pre-cute-insouciance video.

I rode many miles on Indian equivalents -- my third bicycle, given to
me on birthday 11 or 12, was a Hero. I may miss something, but it
seems to me that these bikes are mere evolutionary dead ends,
remaining alive for reasons of technological, industrial and market
inertia, and that the Raleigh Sports-type models that replaced them
are far, far better in every way except perhaps in the ability to
traverse bad or non-existent roads -- tho' if BQ is right (and I am
not convinced), their larger wheels have no advantage here. (The
Sports is also a dead end but not in design but in materials and
technology; an aluminum version with modern components would be far
less deadly to ride than a Sport. I've owned many Sportses.)

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--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW
patric...@resumespecialties.com

A billion stars go spinning through the night
Blazing high above your head;
But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.
(Rilke, Buddha in Glory)

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 09:30 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
>
> I rode many miles on Indian equivalents -- my third bicycle, given to
> me on birthday 11 or 12, was a Hero. I may miss something, but it
> seems to me that these bikes are mere evolutionary dead ends,
> remaining alive for reasons of technological, industrial and market
> inertia, and that the Raleigh Sports-type models that replaced them
> are far, far better in every way except perhaps in the ability to
> traverse bad or non-existent roads -- tho' if BQ is right (and I am
> not convinced), their larger wheels have no advantage here. (The
> Sports is also a dead end but not in design but in materials and
> technology; an aluminum version with modern components would be far
> less deadly to ride than a Sport. I've owned many Sportses.)

The blurb says upgraded and improved over the old, one of the upgrades
is tire size another cable brakes. So I'm not sure how much of these
criticisms of traditional roadsters still apply here.

I didn't dig into detail, but I don't think there's any way to use 28 x
1 1/2" tires with any kind of cable operated brakes (other than drums)
so I'm guessing they've gone to a 700C hybrid tire. They've also
upgraded saddle and handlebars, so I think that leaves the geometry as
the roadster residue.

So, how relevant is roadster geometry? For an urban commuter on the
Dutch model, short distances w/dress clothes, I think the roadster
position is a real winner. No need for extra shoulder room in your
blazer or tweed sports jacket to allow for the cycling position here!
Also, for most riders (Young Patrick in India notwithstanding) the
roadster position highly discourages "enthusiast" riding; relaxed, cool,
calm, [literally]laid back all fit, and that's exactly the approach you
need when riding to work in your dress clothes.

[Joe Bernard]

"Evolutionary dead ends" though they may be, they're pretty cool. I have an Electra Amsterdam 3-speed, which I suppose is a little more "evolved", but it's still a big, heavy, truck-of-a-bike like the Pigeon. I love it, and lately ride it more than my "modern" bikes and recumbent trike. There's something about that big saddle, upright bars, and full fenders and skirts that makes you want to tool around town at a snail's pace in regular clothes.

 

Points for the homepage video: "Girl in red shoes" never fails. ;-)

 

Joe Bernard

Fairfield, CA.

[Seth Vidal]

Perhaps - but I rode one of the pigeons a couple of years back and it
was not a ride I would wish on others.

It was difficult to lift the bike up at all. Now i'll admit to not
being the brawniest guy but lifting it up stairs shouldn't involve
hernia surgery.

Add to that rod-brakes and I think I'd rather spend the money for a
flying pigeon on any number of other bikes.

-sv

[PATRICK MOORE]

To reply to Steve, I think that the Sport is a design improvement,
with riding position better even for urban riding. And of course the
rod brakes not only don't work well even when new (wonder how salmon
pads would help) but they mean that you can't get any stem extension
or much handlebar shape variation. But yes, the Dutch bike with
coaster brake rear is OK for slow, short, urban distances. Still, the
Sport is better for this, too, IMO.

Rod brakes: in India the roadside cycle wallahs would "adjust" the
rear (as always the most problematical) by taking a big pair of pliers
and bending a kink into the long, dt rod to take up slack. You can
guess what this did to improve things.

Still, like the Hindustan Ambassador, ancient and outmoded
technologies do serve their purposes for reasons of economy and
primitive industrial infrastructures. There are certainly no tooling
costs left to amortize! What little information I could find in a
quick search indicated that a basic roadster, new, ought to retail for
not much more than $60.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2011-08-24 at 11:48 -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:

> > So, how relevant is roadster geometry? For an urban commuter on the
> > Dutch model, short distances w/dress clothes, I think the roadster
> > position is a real winner. No need for extra shoulder room in your
> > blazer or tweed sports jacket to allow for the cycling position here!
> > Also, for most riders (Young Patrick in India notwithstanding) the
> > roadster position highly discourages "enthusiast" riding; relaxed, cool,
> > calm, [literally]laid back all fit, and that's exactly the approach you
> > need when riding to work in your dress clothes.
> >
>
> Perhaps - but I rode one of the pigeons a couple of years back and it
> was not a ride I would wish on others.

I have no experience at all with the FP, all my roadster experience is
with a Raleigh DL-1 (which was the original from which the FP was
copied). The ride is certainly different, and definitely not for
everyone or for every circumstance. But I think every avid cyclist
should ride a roadster at least once, because this is our history. At
one time, this is what bikes were. It makes you appreciate the modern
bike all that much more.

>
> It was difficult to lift the bike up at all. Now i'll admit to not
> being the brawniest guy but lifting it up stairs shouldn't involve
> hernia surgery.
>
> Add to that rod-brakes and I think I'd rather spend the money for a
> flying pigeon on any number of other bikes.

You missed the note that they switched from rod brakes to cable brakes.
Other than that, yes roadsters are heavy. So too are Dutch bikes. And
no, these are not the bikes you want for carrying up stairs! (Although,
if you run the risk of a hernia lifting a bike like this perhaps you are
lifting wrong.)

[PATRICK MOORE]

I almost bought one of those; they were on sale outside a lbs for
$250 but I waited too long.

No, no, the Amersterdam is half the heft of a Flying Pigeon, almost
literally -- at least, the two that I saw and rode were aluminum;
perhaps they have a steel version?. I was very pleasantly surprised at
how light they were for they type; aluminum versus pot steel. (My
daughter has a 24" women's 3 speed model, too.)

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[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Steve Palincsar <pali...@his.com> wrote:

>> It was difficult to lift the bike up at all. Now i'll admit to not
>> being the brawniest guy but lifting it up stairs shouldn't involve
>> hernia surgery.
>>
>> Add to that rod-brakes and I think I'd rather spend the money for a
>> flying pigeon on any number of other bikes.
>
> You missed the note that they switched from rod brakes to cable brakes.

Odd - the video that was pasted had all rod brakes.

> Other than that, yes roadsters are heavy.  So too are Dutch bikes.  And
> no, these are not the bikes you want for carrying up stairs!  (Although,
> if you run the risk of a hernia lifting a bike like this perhaps you are
> lifting wrong.)

Having had hernia surgery 2 yrs ago and talking to my doctor about it
- that was a bit of a joke. The way you avoid getting a hernia is to
have different parents.

-sv

[Joe Bernard]

I have a steel Amsterdam, the alu versions are quite a bit lighter. I would estimate my bike-weight at 40lbs., certainly still a good 10 lbs. lighter than a Pigeon, but yes, a bear to heft upstairs. I do it sometimes, but don't make a habit of it.