Help with Serial Numbers
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gregb
Nov 13, 2010, 11:40:08 AM11/13/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
I (finally... sheesh I am lazy!!) looked at the serial number on my
Riv. AR 25 M if I am reading it correctly. I think that means it was
the 25th allrounder made? puts it at about 1994? What else could I
learn about this (newish to me) bike. I am considering having it cut
in half to put some S&S couplings in it which will necessitate a
repaint of the beautiful near mint JB paint job... (I would have this
done by the folks at R&E in seattle where we are likely getting
another Riv'ish touring bike so we can have his and hers travel tour
bikes for an italy trip.)
I would love to hear your collective wisdom on the subject. I have
been lurking in this group for a while now- but you all talked me into
actually riding this bike when I first got it and was chicken to take
the pristine beauty out in the rain.
Riv. AR 25 M if I am reading it correctly. I think that means it was
the 25th allrounder made? puts it at about 1994? What else could I
learn about this (newish to me) bike. I am considering having it cut
in half to put some S&S couplings in it which will necessitate a
repaint of the beautiful near mint JB paint job... (I would have this
done by the folks at R&E in seattle where we are likely getting
another Riv'ish touring bike so we can have his and hers travel tour
bikes for an italy trip.)
I would love to hear your collective wisdom on the subject. I have
been lurking in this group for a while now- but you all talked me into
actually riding this bike when I first got it and was chicken to take
the pristine beauty out in the rain.
Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
Nov 13, 2010, 3:36:21 PM11/13/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
Before you go through the considerable expense of adding couplers,
consider that in the world of airline luggage fees today, you are as
likely as not to be charged $200 per bike per trip even with coupled
bikes that don't exceed normal luggage size limits. The rules on this
are seemingly unclear, and perhaps irrelevant. Seems that to many
airline check-in employees, bike = fee regardless of the size of the
case.
consider that in the world of airline luggage fees today, you are as
likely as not to be charged $200 per bike per trip even with coupled
bikes that don't exceed normal luggage size limits. The rules on this
are seemingly unclear, and perhaps irrelevant. Seems that to many
airline check-in employees, bike = fee regardless of the size of the
case.
Mojo
Nov 13, 2010, 4:25:00 PM11/13/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
If memory serves there were just a few frames completed in 1994 and
all the 94-95 (-96?) were wateford built. JB didn't start painting
Rivendell frames until later, I will stab a guess at 1998 or 99. My
1996 A/R was Waterford built&painted, my 2001 Road was Curt built JB
painted.
all the 94-95 (-96?) were wateford built. JB didn't start painting
Rivendell frames until later, I will stab a guess at 1998 or 99. My
1996 A/R was Waterford built&painted, my 2001 Road was Curt built JB
painted.
carne...@bellsouth.net
Nov 13, 2010, 4:41:41 PM11/13/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Doesn't the M mean it was match built, 1999 - 2000 or so?
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Marty
Nov 13, 2010, 5:37:00 PM11/13/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
Add a few photos to the All Rounder Flickr group when you get a chance
gregb. We love to see Rivs! BTW - did I read an earlier post of yours
that suggested the bike is built around 27" wheels? That seems odd.
http://tinyurl.com/2cnxwba
Marty
gregb. We love to see Rivs! BTW - did I read an earlier post of yours
that suggested the bike is built around 27" wheels? That seems odd.
http://tinyurl.com/2cnxwba
Marty
Eric Norris
Nov 13, 2010, 7:01:24 PM11/13/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I agree with Jim. Unless you plan to travel a *lot*, the cost of setting a bike up with S&S couplers is very high, both in dollar and effort. When I traveled to France, I put my Quickbeam in a hardshell bike case (Air France didn't charge for bikes in '07, not sure if they do now), and when I got to my destination it was very easy to reassemble and get my bike roadworthy. From what I have heard, packing and unpacking a coupled bike is more difficult, something like a puzzle.
If you don't want to wheel a full-sized bike case around the airport, you can also UPS it to your destination. I did this a few years ago when I flew to Portland. UPS shipping was less than a domestic carrier would have charged, and the bike was waiting for me when I arrived at the hotel.
--Eric
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
www.wheelsnorth.org
doug peterson
Nov 13, 2010, 10:13:09 PM11/13/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
Greg:
I'd give the S&S route a second & probably a third thought.
Domestically, you can Fed Ex or UPS a bike for a lot less than the
airlines charge. I recently sent a 58 cm LHT from Flagstaff, AZ to St
Paul, MN for around $65. Internationally, you have to figure out
where you're going, then research the airlines serving that
destination. There really are no rules you can depend upon.
The problem with the airlines is it's a moveing target & subject to
the whims of the check-in agent. I've traveled with people with S&S
coupled bikes in the S&S case who've not been charged. I've also
heard from others who've been hit full retail at the gate. You never
know. The S&S system is elegant but does require more bike dis-
assembly than expected. At the other end, it takes just as long to
get a coupled bike together & re-adjusted as a regular bike.
I bought my Atlantis in 03 and fully intended to get a coupled bike.
Rivendell would have done it but cautioned me on the pros & cons. It
just wasn't as cool in reality as it seemed. I travel a lot and have
never regretted just getting the standard model.
dougP
I'd give the S&S route a second & probably a third thought.
Domestically, you can Fed Ex or UPS a bike for a lot less than the
airlines charge. I recently sent a 58 cm LHT from Flagstaff, AZ to St
Paul, MN for around $65. Internationally, you have to figure out
where you're going, then research the airlines serving that
destination. There really are no rules you can depend upon.
The problem with the airlines is it's a moveing target & subject to
the whims of the check-in agent. I've traveled with people with S&S
coupled bikes in the S&S case who've not been charged. I've also
heard from others who've been hit full retail at the gate. You never
know. The S&S system is elegant but does require more bike dis-
assembly than expected. At the other end, it takes just as long to
get a coupled bike together & re-adjusted as a regular bike.
I bought my Atlantis in 03 and fully intended to get a coupled bike.
Rivendell would have done it but cautioned me on the pros & cons. It
just wasn't as cool in reality as it seemed. I travel a lot and have
never regretted just getting the standard model.
dougP
EricP
Nov 14, 2010, 9:11:21 AM11/14/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
Another one who would suggest holding off on the S&S couplers. Have
loaned my Brompton folding bike to a friend. He was recently told
$200 each way to fly with the bike. The Brompton bag is within airline
limits. Both size and weight.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN
> > the pristine beauty out in the rain.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
loaned my Brompton folding bike to a friend. He was recently told
$200 each way to fly with the bike. The Brompton bag is within airline
limits. Both size and weight.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN
>
> - Show quoted text -
NickBull
Nov 14, 2010, 10:37:05 AM11/14/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
A bit of a counterpoint on S&S. I've never regretted getting my bike
with couplers ...
I've never been charged extra for my S&S coupled bike. No one has
ever even asked what's in the box. They ask if there is anything
fragile, and the answer is "no". I realize this is a "YMMV" type
thing -- I know one person who has had a problem on one flight, though
elevating the issue to a supervisor resolved the problem and he didn't
have to pay extra. I've taken five trips with my bike, the most
recent in August.
The first time you pack it, it's a bit of a puzzle, but there are
photos on the web of other people's packing jobs, and once you get
something that works, take photos of your own packing job. For me, I
have to remove the handlebars (which means taking the cable off the
front brake and disconnecting the bike computer with a disconnect I
installed), unscrew the DaVinci couplers on the three cables running
to the back of the bike and disconnect the two sets of wiring (for
taillight and cadence), remove pedals, take the fenders off,
disconnect the S&S couplers, partially deflate the tires, unscrew the
rear derailleur, wrap everything in the S&S packing neoprene, and put
it all in the box. It takes about 45 minutes. Putting it all back
together takes about the same. I've never even had to adjust the
derailleurs afterwards -- the DaVinci couplers do not affect cable
length when screwed tightly before and after.
Packing stuff in a cardboard box for UPS takes me the same amount of
time and requires very nearly the same amount of disassembly -- you
don't have to unscrew the DaVinci's, disconnect the wiring, and
unscrew the S&S couplers, but that's a savings of only about two
minutes.
I got the couplers installed when the frame was made, and it cost me
$600 extra. At today's prices for taking a bike on the plane -- some
airlines charge $200 each way -- it paid for itself a while ago.
It's true that the airline rules are a moving target, so there is some
risk that a new S&S job won't payoff. But that's true with the
folding route as well. The airline person who wants to charge extra
for "a bike" even though it is in the legal size limit can do that
just as well for a folder as for a disassembled S&S bike. And if the
airlines change the legal size limit, it could just as well impact
folders as it does the S&S bike. UPS might start charging more for
larger-size boxes like bikes, as they did recently in Australia (?)
where even bicycle wheels are "oversize" if I recall. I guess life is
a crapshoot and there's just no certainty about anything :-)
Nick
with couplers ...
I've never been charged extra for my S&S coupled bike. No one has
ever even asked what's in the box. They ask if there is anything
fragile, and the answer is "no". I realize this is a "YMMV" type
thing -- I know one person who has had a problem on one flight, though
elevating the issue to a supervisor resolved the problem and he didn't
have to pay extra. I've taken five trips with my bike, the most
recent in August.
The first time you pack it, it's a bit of a puzzle, but there are
photos on the web of other people's packing jobs, and once you get
something that works, take photos of your own packing job. For me, I
have to remove the handlebars (which means taking the cable off the
front brake and disconnecting the bike computer with a disconnect I
installed), unscrew the DaVinci couplers on the three cables running
to the back of the bike and disconnect the two sets of wiring (for
taillight and cadence), remove pedals, take the fenders off,
disconnect the S&S couplers, partially deflate the tires, unscrew the
rear derailleur, wrap everything in the S&S packing neoprene, and put
it all in the box. It takes about 45 minutes. Putting it all back
together takes about the same. I've never even had to adjust the
derailleurs afterwards -- the DaVinci couplers do not affect cable
length when screwed tightly before and after.
Packing stuff in a cardboard box for UPS takes me the same amount of
time and requires very nearly the same amount of disassembly -- you
don't have to unscrew the DaVinci's, disconnect the wiring, and
unscrew the S&S couplers, but that's a savings of only about two
minutes.
I got the couplers installed when the frame was made, and it cost me
$600 extra. At today's prices for taking a bike on the plane -- some
airlines charge $200 each way -- it paid for itself a while ago.
It's true that the airline rules are a moving target, so there is some
risk that a new S&S job won't payoff. But that's true with the
folding route as well. The airline person who wants to charge extra
for "a bike" even though it is in the legal size limit can do that
just as well for a folder as for a disassembled S&S bike. And if the
airlines change the legal size limit, it could just as well impact
folders as it does the S&S bike. UPS might start charging more for
larger-size boxes like bikes, as they did recently in Australia (?)
where even bicycle wheels are "oversize" if I recall. I guess life is
a crapshoot and there's just no certainty about anything :-)
Nick
gregb
Nov 13, 2010, 4:50:18 PM11/13/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
I am actually clueless re: year etc. Any of your guesses are better
than mine!
CycloFiend
Nov 14, 2010, 1:14:52 PM11/14/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I would expect it was a Match-built frame. Hence the "M".
RBW was not started until 1995, and it was a couple years before the A/R
came out. I have a still-dormant page on "Generation 1" production frames
which is here - with some notes from posts in threads on the matter. There
is a scan of the A/R page from Reader #5 - which was in 1999.
http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1
- Jim
--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net
Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
Current Classics - Cross Bikes
Singlespeed - Working Bikes
Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com
"Then I sat up, wiped the water out of my eyes, and looked at my bike, and
just like that I knew it was dead"
-- Robert McCammon, "Boy's Life"
Ryan
Nov 14, 2010, 5:49:14 PM11/14/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
AR serial number from 1997 Waterford-built - J97045. Colour- Sherwood
forest with cream headtube and my name on the rear of the top-tube in
case I get amnesia:).Ordered in August of 1997, built in September,
paid up and received in December 1997.Built up in May 1998.Shortly
after mine was built up in 1998, I think Riv was using match and also
talking about customs - different tubing and engaging Joe Starck to
build frames and Joe Bell to paint them.
Wonderful bike, great investment (and I don't mean to ebay to someone
else:)
On Nov 14, 12:14 pm, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
forest with cream headtube and my name on the rear of the top-tube in
case I get amnesia:).Ordered in August of 1997, built in September,
paid up and received in December 1997.Built up in May 1998.Shortly
after mine was built up in 1998, I think Riv was using match and also
talking about customs - different tubing and engaging Joe Starck to
build frames and Joe Bell to paint them.
Wonderful bike, great investment (and I don't mean to ebay to someone
else:)
On Nov 14, 12:14 pm, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> on 11/13/10 8:40 AM, gregb at gbberk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I (finally... sheesh I am lazy!!) looked at the serial number on my
> > Riv. AR 25 M if I am reading it correctly. I think that means it was
> > the 25th allrounder made? puts it at about 1994? What else could I
> > learn about this (newish to me) bike. I am considering having it cut
> > in half to put some S&S couplings in it which will necessitate a
> > repaint of the beautiful near mint JB paint job... (I would have this
> > done by the folks at R&E in seattle where we are likely getting
> > another Riv'ish touring bike so we can have his and hers travel tour
> > bikes for an italy trip.)
>
> > I would love to hear your collective wisdom on the subject. I have
> > been lurking in this group for a while now- but you all talked me into
> > actually riding this bike when I first got it and was chicken to take
> > the pristine beauty out in the rain.
>
> I would expect it was a Match-built frame. Hence the "M".
>
> RBW was not started until 1995, and it was a couple years before the A/R
> came out. I have a still-dormant page on "Generation 1" production frames
> which is here - with some notes from posts in threads on the matter. There
> is a scan of the A/R page from Reader #5 - which was in 1999.
>
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1
>
> - Jim
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> > I (finally... sheesh I am lazy!!) looked at the serial number on my
> > Riv. AR 25 M if I am reading it correctly. I think that means it was
> > the 25th allrounder made? puts it at about 1994? What else could I
> > learn about this (newish to me) bike. I am considering having it cut
> > in half to put some S&S couplings in it which will necessitate a
> > repaint of the beautiful near mint JB paint job... (I would have this
> > done by the folks at R&E in seattle where we are likely getting
> > another Riv'ish touring bike so we can have his and hers travel tour
> > bikes for an italy trip.)
>
> > I would love to hear your collective wisdom on the subject. I have
> > been lurking in this group for a while now- but you all talked me into
> > actually riding this bike when I first got it and was chicken to take
> > the pristine beauty out in the rain.
>
> I would expect it was a Match-built frame. Hence the "M".
>
> RBW was not started until 1995, and it was a couple years before the A/R
> came out. I have a still-dormant page on "Generation 1" production frames
> which is here - with some notes from posts in threads on the matter. There
> is a scan of the A/R page from Reader #5 - which was in 1999.
>
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1
>
> - Jim
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
Rene Sterental
Nov 14, 2010, 8:36:16 PM11/14/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I had a Gunnar in my pre-Rivendell raya with couplers. Traveled with
it 4 times in two years and had no trouble at all. Got pretty good at
packing/unpacking with practice but the first time it was a nightmare.
it 4 times in two years and had no trouble at all. Got pretty good at
packing/unpacking with practice but the first time it was a nightmare.
The bike didn't fit that well, sold it right after I got my AHH and
most of my business trips are too short to make the whole thing
worthwhile. I do dream of a folder bike but am yet above the max.
weight limit and then again, I cannot ensure I'd travel with it more
often except when going on vacation.
What I do now on my longer business trips if I can stay an extra day
is rent a bike/bike tour of the city I'm visiting. It's a fantastic
way to sightsee the place and enjoy yourself.
Best business bike trip I took on the Gunnar: Chicago where I got to
ride the trail along Lake Michigan.
If you can afford it, get the couplers. They don't affect the bike and
it's always great to have them if you really need them. Me, I haven't
really missed them.
Well, maybe once in the past year... :-)
René
Sent from my iPhone 4
gregb
Nov 15, 2010, 8:02:22 PM11/15/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
Marty... I was just wrong. 26" wheels and a old brain.
G
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