Rivendells with tubulars

[Bill Lindsay]

A discussion a while back touched on a couple people revealing that they run sew-ups on their Rivendell.  Show a photo of your Rivendell with sew-ups!  

Here's my 57cm Legolas.  I briefly reconfigured it as a 2x road bike, but it's in-process getting switched back to a cyclocross racing set up.  No, I will not be racing cyclocross any time soon, but I will be using it for rides of that kind.  

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53661740502/in/dateposted/

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be interested to hear how users of both compare the ride and "feel" of tubulars to clinchers with tubes and tubeless clinchers.* Is it true that modern supple clinchers can roll better than equivalent tubulars? With tubes or only tubeless?

* I realize that "wired on" is the correct term but this isn't the CR list.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Bill Lindsay]

"interested to hear how..."  to what end?  Just so you have something to read?  So you can pick up a smart comment to re-use in another forum later?  Just as an academic consideration about "Bicycle"?  Or for some practical application that you are personally considering?  Are you thinking about setting up "that Libertas"  with tubulars?  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[exliontamer]

That's a very cynical & aggressive response to that question. 

[Bill Lindsay]

I don't think it's cynical or aggressive, I'm just trying to get the context of Patrick Moore's tubular-curiosity.  

Lots of people read the RBW group because it's something to read that generates interesting stuff.  The majority of the users are lurkers and that's perfectly OK

Lots of people pick up info on one Google Group board and then insert it into another where they think it can be helpful.  That's also perfectly OK

Some people are just lifelong learners and want to learn everything there is to know about bicycles, even the stuff they'd never buy.  That's also fine.

Some people want to gather info about a specific project on the horizon, and having that target in mind can help focus the exchange

Finally, Patrick Moore has been sitting on a frame set, with a 5-year-long narrative of intents to build it.  That's the only machine in his possession that I know of that could feasibly "take" sew-ups.  I excitedly asked about that.  

I think those are five very different and perfectly reasonable motives, and could help generate responses that get the asker what they want.  Maybe you picked up cynicism or aggressiveness because you suspect Patrick Moore and I are strangers.  That is not the case.  We go back over a decade.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Yeah, Bill is always mean to me; I'm used to it.

Bill: Idle curiosity, that's all. I read Jan Heine somewhere saying that very good modern clinchers are actually faster than good tubulars and I wondered if anyone has ridden both and can compare them from personal experience. There was a time when I toyed with the idea of trying tubulars, perhaps on that very Libertas, but I'm so happy with the great clinchers from Schwalbe and RH and Soma that I really don't have much motivation to do that.

Libertas: Still need to take it to my brother's house to get a better idea of how fat a tire it will take in the different diameters.The frame is no good to me for the use I'd last planned for it -- an allrounder beater that can ride on the firmer (= shallower sand) ditchbank roads, which requires a minimum of 38 mm and better 42. The frame cannot take 622X38s in front or rear; it won't take 559 X 50s, and I have to figure out if it will take 584 X 42s or even 38s. 

I may do a little impromptu vise-work on the inside of the rear stays ....  we'll see.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5186b2bf-6735-49e8-be87-b80450de43b1n%40googlegroups.com.

[exliontamer]

I was reading it as attacking a stranger for their curiosity. Definitely wasn't aware of the friendship so sincere apologies for casting aspersions.

[Bill Lindsay]

Idle curiosity: that's fair.  My executive summary on that front would start with you asking a different question:

If Patrick Moore asked: "Do y'all think I should experiment with tubulars on "that Libertas"?"

then I would answer: "No, I don't think Patrick Moore should experiment with tubulars on that Libertas.  They are not objectively "way faster" or "way smoother" than the best modern clinchers" 

What Patrick Moore actually asked in the initial response was two-fold:

Is it true that modern supple clinchers can roll better than equivalent tubulars? I believe that they can

With tubes or only tubeless?  I believe with tubes and without sealant is currently considered "the fastest".

I could write many pages about my story of sew up use over the last 40 years, but I'll cut to the chase that my use of sew ups today in 2024 is purely because it's cool.  I've got three sew up wheel sets in my garage at the moment, ready to be put into action.  Even the new pink Roadeo has a sew up option.  Sew ups on a cyclocross race build is just cool.  It's not better.  It's not faster.  It's just cool.  The particular reason I put sew ups on my Legolas was practical:  I was building my Roadeo, experimented with a wheel set which was supposed to generate better braking, which instead generated horrible braking.  I could "fix" the Roadeo by inheriting the clincher wheels from the Legolas.  I found cyclocross sew ups on eBay for crazy cheap.  So the Legolas became more cool (in my eyes) and the Roadeo was permitted to become a bicycle.  I've only ridden the Legolas ~20 miles on pavement since the sew ups went on.  It's the same bike, only cooler.  

I do not think Patrick Moore's cycling life would be enhanced by experimenting with sew ups, unless Patrick Moore decided to consider sew ups "cool".  I do not believe there is any objective case to be made to prove to Patrick Moore that he must try sew ups.  Not speed, not comfort.  The physical act of glueing on a tire is a maneuver that I suspect Patrick Moore would find frustrating.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA