Atlantis on the Great Divide Route?

[Ray]

Question: Is it practical to use an Atlantis on the ACA Great Divide
Route, as opposed to a hard-tail mountain bike with suspension fork?
I am thinking about mounting some appropriate large 700c knobbies,
maybe a suspension seat post or a Brooks Flyer, and probably pull a
trailer (as opposed to panniers). I have spent the past several days
reading through the journals of others who have ridden the route, and
the over-whelming bike of choice is a hard-tail mtb with suspension
forks.

What is max tire width I can use on my Atlantis? The RBW site no
longer spec's that, just a recommended minimum.

By the way, I realize that a Bombadil would fit the bill nicely. But,
I don't have the funds at present to purchase one, and I already own a
great Atlantis, which I just used on the Western Express route with
panniers. Just wondering if I should think about "fixing up" my
Schwinn Moab 3 hardtail for the Great Divide, or use the tour-tested
Atlantis instead.

Thank you for comments and suggestions.

Ray

[Anne Paulson]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Ray <r.s...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Question: Is it practical to use an Atlantis on the ACA Great Divide
Route, as opposed to a hard-tail mountain bike with suspension fork?
 

One of the folks at Rivendell told me he'd done that. I think it was Rich , the wheelbuilder. Whoever it was, he was happy with his choice.

 

--
-- Anne Paulson

He who wills the ends wills the means

[CycloFiend]

My bias is always towards simpler systems. The longer the ride, the less
variables the better.

With a suspension fork, you definitely add complexity, parts and bits that
can fail. A bit easier on the arms/wrists of course, but you can tune the
ride with large volume tires.

The original Atlantis flyers show it with a 52 Nanoraptor -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/atlflyer/03.html

Looks like there's still some room if you don't run fenders.

Trust you came across Kent Peterson's writings on the subject.

http://tinyurl.com/kp-ridesearch

- J

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
Current Classics - Cross Bikes
Singlespeed - Working Bikes

"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do
it."
Mahatma Gandhi

[JoelMatthews]

In spite of the fact I have never really done much mountain biking, I
have a bee in my bonnet that I ought to do the GD.

Most of the report I have read the rider did at least have front
suspension. There is a report from a GD completer a few years bike
who started the ride in Canada with a Stumpjumper but switched to a
front suspension bike in Montana.

Personally, I have never warmed to suspension bikes so would like to
think you could enjoy the trip without one.

[Dustin Sharp]

Plenty of people have proved you can do it fully rigid:

--Someone did the entire route with a Bombadil prototype (not racing, but
touring).
--As far as racers go, Kent Peterson did it on a fully rigid monocog.
--Rick Hunter also tried riding it with a ridged cross bike setup, but had
to quit after his knee swelled up.
--Deanna Edwards rode the entire thing on a fixed gear with 700x35 tires and
only a rear brake!

From the pics, it seems like most of the route is dirt road--not gnarly
singletrack. That said, I'm sure there are a number of sections where
suspension would make the whole adventure a lot more comfortable.

Probably comes down to home many miles you are going to do per day. If you
are going to do 100-150 like many of the GDR racers, you'd need something to
take the edge off. Those are some tough mofos riding that race, and nearly
all of them use front suspension. If you have more of a leisurely touring
style, maybe some fat 29er tires at low psi would be enough.

Dustin

[Mike]

I think a few folks did it on Salsa Fargos (rigid, drop bar,
expidition touring) this year. I think an Atlantis could handle it. Go
for it.

--Mike

[JoelMatthews]

> From the pics, it seems like most of the route is dirt road--not gnarly
> singletrack. That said, I'm sure there are a number of sections where
> suspension would make the whole adventure a lot more comfortable.

After periods of preciptiation or extended high wind and heat, dirt
roads can be more pock marked and difficult to traverse than
singletrack with natural run off and irrigation barriers. I
understand some knuckleheads take ATVs on parts of the trails even
though prohibited, leaving ruts and the like.

> --Someone did the entire route with a Bombadil prototype (not racing, but
> touring).
> --As far as racers go, Kent Peterson did it on a fully rigid monocog.
> --Rick Hunter also tried riding it with a ridged cross bike setup, but had
> to quit after his knee swelled up.
> --Deanna Edwards rode the entire thing on a fixed gear with 700x35 tires and
> only a rear brake!

Suffering is acceptable in competition as the ultimate goal is to
win. If you are doing the ride for the sake of it, why suffer on
account of the trip.

I would be very interested to hear back from the OP if he goes ahead
with the ride. As I say, the GD interestes me, even though I am not
certain when I would find the time, or whether I have the requisite
skill even if I did.

> >> Ray- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[doug peterson]

In RR 29, Lon Haldeman relates a solo route scouting ride in Peru.
This was in preparation for a PAC Tour group, so probably quite
challenging. He took his 1980 vintage MTB ("22 yeas old & at least
3,000 trips to the post office"), way before suspension. He doesn't
mention tire size but from the pix they're middling plumpish, maybe
2". While my off road experience on my Atlantis is limited, it seems
to have good handling. I'd go larger than my current 35s for an off
road tour but wouldn't change anything else.

dougP

[XO-1.org Rough Riders]

That would be Deanna Adams who did it on a road bike converted to
fixed gear, with 35mm Ritchey cyclocross tyres. Here is her blog:

http://ultrarunbikevegan.blogspot.com/

The Great Divide Route is not "real mountain biking." Suspension is
not necessary, especially if that's not what you normally ride.

On Oct 29, 10:04 am, Dustin Sharp <dsh...@runbox.com> wrote:
> Plenty of people have proved you can do it fully rigid:
>
> --Someone did the entire route with a Bombadil prototype (not racing, but
> touring).  
> --As far as racers go, Kent Peterson did it on a fully rigid monocog.
> --Rick Hunter also  tried riding it with a ridged cross bike setup, but had
> to quit after his knee swelled up.
> --Deanna Edwards rode the entire thing on a fixed gear with 700x35 tires and
> only a rear brake!
>
> From the pics, it seems like most of the route is dirt road--not gnarly
> singletrack. That said, I'm sure there are a number of sections where
> suspension would make the whole adventure a lot more comfortable.
>
> Probably comes down to home many miles you are going to do per day.  If you
> are going to do 100-150 like many of the GDR racers, you'd need something to
> take the edge off.  Those are some tough mofos riding that race, and nearly
> all of them use front suspension. If you have more of a leisurely touring
> style, maybe some fat 29er tires at low psi would be enough.
>
> Dustin
>

[cyclotourist]

Yep:  http://www.salsacycles.com/amigos/labels/Tour%20Divide%20Race.html

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy

[Frederick, Steve]

Dustin Sharp Sent:

Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:05 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on the Great Divide Route?

>Plenty of people have proved you can do it fully rigid...

>...From the pics, it seems like most of the route is dirt road--not gnarly

>singletrack. That said, I'm sure there are a number of sections where

>suspension would make the whole adventure a lot more comfortable...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washboard. Miles and miles and miles of washboard'd dirt road. That's about the worst you'll see from the reports I've read. If you can handle that on a rigid bike, you're set.

I just got my first custom bike, a 650b-wheeled, Softtail Curtlo. I think it'd be about perfect for the GDR (with a BOB trailer)

It's not a Riv bike, but pics are here for the curious:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40738390@N08/

Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI

[LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com]

I'm planning on doing it on my Atlantis :)

lyle f bogart dpt
tacoma wa

[Ray Shine]

Lyle -- Do you mind a few set up questions?  Will you use panniers, or a trailer? What size (and brand, model) tires will you use? What handlebar? Any other special components? Thank you (and all others who have responded thus far.  Very helpful, all…). Ray --- On Fri, 10/30/09, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com <lyleb...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com <lyleb...@gmail.com> Subject: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on the Great Divide Route?

To: "RBW Owners Bunch" <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

[JoelMatthews]

This blogger argues panniers do not work as well as trailers. I
prefer panniers for road touring. Not sure what I would I would on
the GDR.

http://www.trek4fun.com/great_divide_trail/gdt_bob_trailer.htm

On Oct 30, 8:56 am, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Lyle -- Do you mind a few set up questions? 
> Will you use panniers, or a trailer?
> What size (and brand, model) tires will you use?
> What handlebar?
> Any other special components?
>
> Thank you (and all others who have responded thus far.  Very helpful, all…).
>
> Ray
>

> --- On Fri, 10/30/09, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com <lylebog...@gmail.com> wrote:

[JoelMatthews]

> Washboard. Miles and miles and miles of washboard'd dirt road. That's about the worst you'll see from the reports I've read. If you can handle that on a rigid bike, you're set.

I have not bought the maps yet, so cannot say for sure, but at least
the portion that goes through the San Juan wilderness area in Southern
Colorado as well as the wilderness areas in Northern New Mexico would
have to be trails. Unless there is a road by pass. But then you
would be missing arguably the most beautiful part of the trail (I have
not ridden, of course, but did hike the San Juans years ago. Cannot
imagine there are too many places that come close in scenic beauty).

On Oct 30, 7:45 am, "Frederick, Steve" <frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu>
wrote:

[Will]

"People do ride the route on fully rigid bikes, usually cyclocross or
rugged touring bikes, so it's certainly possible and I wouldn't
discourage anyone from trying it. 2,700 miles is a lot of dirt road,
however, and the vast majority of riders will be more comfortable on a
mountain bike with front suspension. Some sections of the route are
quite rough and others feature extended washboard (the bane of dirt
cyclists everywhere) — all doable without suspension, of course, but
if you want to enjoy yourself, ride with a front shock. If comfort is
your priority, a full-suspension bike is a good choice. The added
complexity means one more thing to possibly break, but there are
plenty of bike shops along the way and nothing makes washboard
tolerable like a plush rear shock." -- Aaron Teasdale, Adventure
Cyclist Magazine, www.adventurecycling.org/features/greatdividegear.cfm

Companion Article: www.adventurecycling.org/resources/200807_Good_the_Badand_the_Beautiful_Teasdale.pdf

Another opinion: www.adventurecycling.org/resources/divide_and_conquer.pdf

[Mike]

"Washboard. Miles and miles and miles of washboard'd dirt road.
That's about the worst you'll see from the reports I've read. If you
can handle that on a rigid bike, you're set."

The solution for this would be a Softride suspension stem. I had one
of those on my MB-2 in the early 90s and it was great. In fact, one of
those would work well on an Atlantis. I bet you could even pick one up
NOS. I'd look into it.

--mike

[Jim M.]

On Oct 30, 9:07 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote:
> This blogger argues panniers do not work as well as trailers.  I
> prefer panniers for road touring.  Not sure what I would I would on
> the GDR.

A lot of the GDR riders use rackless packs from Carousel Design Works
or Epic Designs.

http://www.epicdesignsalaska.com/
http://www.carouseldesignworks.com/main.html

I recently got an Escape Pod from CDW and it is a lightweight, rugged,
and very well designed piece of gear. The owners of both places do
endurance MTB rides and refine the gear from their experience. These
are what I'm planning to use when I ride the GDR (or what I'm dreaming
about while at work).

jim m
wc ca

[Frederick, Steve]

I'd sure be glad to be proven wrong about the washboard-ey dirt roads! I'd rather ride a trail anytime...B-)

Steve

[JoelMatthews]

> A lot of the GDR riders use rackless packs from Carousel Design Works
> or Epic Designs.

Very nice. Definitely worth considering. n.b.: One of the pictures
in the Epic Design gallery show a loaded Jones Bike. Riding the GDR
as an excuse to pop for one of those beauts!

> (or what I'm dreaming about while at work).

Same here.

On Oct 30, 12:11 pm, "Jim M." <mather...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 30, 9:07 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > This blogger argues panniers do not work as well as trailers.  I
> > prefer panniers for road touring.  Not sure what I would I would on
> > the GDR.
>
> A lot of the GDR riders use rackless packs from Carousel Design Works
> or Epic Designs.
>

> http://www.epicdesignsalaska.com/http://www.carouseldesignworks.com/main.html

[JoelMatthews]

> I'd sure be glad to be proven wrong about the washboard-ey dirt roads! I'd rather ride a trail anytime...B-)

On my camping trip earlier this month, I failed to notice one of the
trails was not complete. The pavement ended at a dirt road that had
been used for utility access. It was only about 15 miles, and the
alternative was riding on the shoulder of a 4 lane highway, so I
decided to stay on the trail. With all the rattling about you better
believe on the way back I opted for the highway shoulder.

On Oct 30, 12:27 pm, "Frederick, Steve" <frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu>
wrote:

[Mike]

This guy has ridden miles and miles of washboard on his overloaded
rigid touring bike, including the Dempster Hwy. It's really worth
checking out his journal entries and photos. He's like a Canadian Ian
Hibbel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Hibell):

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/jk

His Dempster entries begin here:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=RrzKj&page_id=37927&v=4Iy

Enjoy,
mike

[LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com]

Hi Ray,

I will use panniers; I've done a fair amount of dirt road/trail riding
and feel the panniers work very well for the type of terrain
encountered on the GDR. I also like the fact that panniers have less
chance of imposing mechanical breakdowns, compared to a trailer.
I will use Schwalbe Marathon XR tires, 700c x40. Again, I've used
these quite a bit and for the type of terrain in question and I think
they'd do well.
Handlebars... right now I'm using 48cm nitto noodles, but I'm
considering switching over to albatross bars... no really compelling
reason, just been rattling the idea around for a while...
I haven't decided on lighting options, but am leaning toward battery
powered with rechargeable cells (bringing plenty and recharging when
able)...
Platform pedals... maybe with clips and straps, maybe power-straps...

Obviously, I'm still working out the details but keep asking if you
think of other things :)

lyle...

On Oct 30, 6:56 am, Ray Shine <r.sh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Lyle -- Do you mind a few set up questions? 
> Will you use panniers, or a trailer?
> What size (and brand, model) tires will you use?
> What handlebar?
> Any other special components?
>
> Thank you (and all others who have responded thus far.  Very helpful, all…).
>
> Ray
>

> --- On Fri, 10/30/09, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com <lylebog...@gmail.com> wrote:

[LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com]

Hi Joel,

Admittedly it's been a few years since I've been in the South San
Juans in Colorado (used to spend a lot of time there as an Outward
Bound Instructor), but last I knew, bikes were not permitted on trails
there. There are many 4-wheel drive access roads throughout the area
though and one wouldn't miss out on too many beautiful areas there
(though, of course, you can't get to it all on the 4-wheel drive
roads).

lyle...

[Ray Shine]

Thanks, Lyle - Yes, I used Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on the Western Express ride, 700x35.  Just one puncture. Great tires. I also have a set of 700x40 XRs on another bike that I ride on dirt roads.  I would most likely get another set for the GDR and put them on the Atlantis. I also have the same Nitto Noodles on the Atlantis, but was thinking about switching over to a On-One Midge.  If I think of anything else, I'll give you a ping. Thanks, Ray --- On Fri, 10/30/09, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com <lyleb...@gmail.com> wrote:

[JoelMatthews]

> Admittedly it's been a few years since I've been in the South San
> Juans in Colorado (used to spend a lot of time there as an Outward
> Bound Instructor), but last I knew, bikes were not permitted on trails
> there.

That was the rule when I was there too. I will have to buy the maps,
but it seems maybe the GDR goes by, not through the wilderness area.

On Oct 30, 11:38 pm, "LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com" <lylebog...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[JoelMatthews]

Somewhat on topic - just finished reading a decent Outside article
(probably great by most current bicycle journalist standards - but no
where near the quality of Outside writing ten years ago) about riding
across the Scottish highlands. Sounds like that would be a great
ride, and most likely a worthy challenge for the Atlantis or Bombadil.

[dmolloy]

When I rode the Great Divide, there were stretches when I was riding
with people on full suspension rigs and bob trailers, and they had to
limit their speed on descents, otherwise their trailers would fishtail
and become unstable. I used front and rear panniers, and the bike was
solid, even reaching a top speed of 49mph on dirt. I think the
Atlantis would be a great bike for the ride, the bombadil that I rode
has the same tire clearances, but I would recommend using at least a
50mm tire to make your life on the washboards easier. Using Marathon
extremes on my Surly Big Dummy (another worthy GD bike!), but they
aren't available in a 700x50mm yet. If they were, they would probably
be half a pound lighter than XRs, but just as puncture resistant. I
could have turned around and ridden the GD again with the same set of
tires if I wanted, they are overbuilt! The carousel bags seem really
cool, if you have the ultralight gear thing down and are willing to
forgo most luxury items.

Daniel