Re: Advice on Cantilever Brake Swap for Atlantis with Wider Rims

[J J]

hi Wes. I have Paul Neo-Retro cantis on my Atlantis, front and rear. I've never felt a need to use a combination of the Neo-Retro in front and the Paul Touring in the back that a lot of people do. The idea is that Touring cantis in the back interfere less with panniers and heal clearance. I've just never had these problems with Neo-Retros on the back, and I've had them on multiple bikes. 

The Neo-Retros perform great and look fantastic. I love wide profile cantis. They're not especially trickier to set up than other brakes. I think they are unfairly maligned as far as setup goes. I have silver ones on my Atlantis, but I think black or pewter would look great on yours (if you want to stick with something similar to the dark grey aesthetic of your XTR V-brakes). The Paul Touring cantis look plain and ordinary to me.

You will also likely have to get new short pull brake levers (unless your current levers can switch from long pull for V-brakes to short pull). The Paul Canti Levers are great, too. 

You just can't go wrong with a Paul canti setup! The only downside is that they are pricey. 

Good luck!

Jim

On Wednesday, October 16, 2024 at 4:19:02 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

Hello everyone,

I’m in the middle of getting some work done on my Atlantis, including new wheels built with Velocity Cliffhanger rims and 48mm tires. My mechanic mentioned that my current XTR V-brakes are maxed out with the wider rims and suggested swapping to cantilever brakes for better clearance and brake lever feel.

I wanted to reach out to see if anyone has gone through a similar swap and if you have any recommendations, particularly for something from Paul Component? I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Cheers,

Wes

[Richard Rose]

Whoa! That just looks a bit bizarre to me. These are my Shimano V brakes with 2.6” tires mounted to Cliffhanger rims.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2024, at 4:19 PM, Wesley <wcr...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hello everyone,

I’m in the middle of getting some work done on my Atlantis, including new wheels built with Velocity Cliffhanger rims and 48mm tires. My mechanic mentioned that my current XTR V-brakes are maxed out with the wider rims and suggested swapping to cantilever brakes for better clearance and brake lever feel.

I wanted to reach out to see if anyone has gone through a similar swap and if you have any recommendations, particularly for something from Paul Component? I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Cheers,

Wes

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[DavidP]

I've found that when changing rim widths the brake pad spacing may need to be changed. Usually this can be done by swapping around the spacers on the pad posts.

Sheldon puts it better than I can:

Threaded-stud brake shoes with spherical (domed) washers do allow for all angle adjustments. There are two convex washers, which go inside and outside the arm, and two matching concave washers that mate with the convex ones.

Usually, the concave washers are two different thicknesses, so you can select two different extensions depending on whether you put the thick or thin concave washer on the inside.

Hopefully this is possible in your case.

-Dave

[exliontamer]

I ran Paul Neo-Retros on my Atlantis for years and they were fantastic. Got rear ended by a car a while ago and most of the components were totaled (frame & fork were ok). Ran Tektro 720s as a cheap replacement and they were also great. Just splurged on a set of Paul Touring Cantis for the Atlantis that are coming tomorrow. Anyway...trying to make a point that I liked them enough to rebuy them. I'd also highly recommend the Paul Canti Levers. I know that's a lot of scratch to spend but they legitimately feel amazing. I can clear 700x55 with the aforementioned brakes all day with no problem. Difficulty of setup is very overstated imo. Plus there's youtube.

[Drew Fitchette]

Seconding others’ responses here. You should be able to adjust the spacers so you’re not spreading the brake arms out so much. Unless that model doesn’t have that adjustability. In which case I’d order some DXR or Deore V brakes from Riv that do adjust that way as both work great, and you can keep the same brake levers. 

If you just want Paul Canti brakes then do it! As they’re great too. It just shouldn’t be required to fit those rims. 

[Ian A]

Bear in mind that your current brake levers will be long pull if they are meant for vbrakes. You may need to change your levers to short pull if switching to cantis. If the rim is too wide for the cantilever stud spacing, it can be a challenge to get optimum braking. I have a touring bike where I wish the cantilever posts were spaced a bit wider for the rims I use, but Shimano CX70 canti brakes have been the best so far that I have tried. Kool Stop brake pads are an essential upgrade though.

IanA Alberta Canada

[homer howzit]

May I add my two cents?… I have a Toyo Atlantis and it does not have fork mounts. This fact together with my choice to use Paul Motolites has made it kind of tough to mount a front rack… Again, just a random thought because I didn’t see any fork mounts on your Atlantis… that being said, I am crazy about the brakes and their modulation and stopping power… I use them on a second Rivendell as well🙂

[iamkeith]

Repeating what others have already said: make sure you're taken advantage of the full range of adjustment available from shifting spacers and spherical washers, first.  The attached diagram from Kool Stop is informative.

If you do decide to switch to cantis, one thing to know is that the shape of Paul neo retros actually does not work that well with unusually wide rims.  ( Or unusually narrow boss spacing - which  is an approximate standard that's increased over the years.) Compare the neo retro to the Dia Compe 980, which is similar.  If you draw an imaginary line through the center of the pivot, where it bolts to the boss, and parallel to the face of the arm where the pads attach, and then measure the perpendicular distance between those two lines, you'll see what I mean.  The pad mounting face on the Paul brakes is offset toward the rim pretty substanially.

[iamkeith]

[Garth]

Given the parameters given by Wes, simply getting a current V-brake like a Deore version would be easiest, as they are made with wider rims in mind. XTR's were designed when mtb rims and spacing was more narrow than what came along later. 

Given the mechanic is competent and by the photo given, the pads appear already as close as they are going to go, and 1 or 2mm wouldn't make a difference anyways as the problem is the basic geometry of the brakes themselves. The arms are straight, whereas the Deore for example, the arms are curved so the pad fits close to the rim yet the arms won't interfere with the tire. If Wes isn't the one working on the bike as appears the case, that's where my suggestion of another V-brake like a Deore rests as it would appear to be most simple and direct. The mechanic may or may not be competent with cantilevers as they come in many varieties that require different skills per given brake. Myself I can't help but praise to this day the very first canti I ever used and saw on my then new '83 Stumpjumper, and still use today on the Bombadil, the Shimano BR-MC70. These are commonly sold on ebay and various used parts outlets in various conditions for usually reasonable prices. Do inspect photos closely, and don't overpay for them. I know nothing of Paul brakes as I've never had issues with power on any canti I've used. 

[Wesley]

Thank you all so much for the replies!  I decided to splurge a little and go for the Paul Touring setup on front and rear.  In addition, there will be a Pass and Stow 5 rail rack on the front and a Large Fabs Chest.  Hoping everything fits and works well together.  I'll likely do some more photos and share when it's all done!

[Benjamin Boerum]

Hi Wes, 

The parallel push XTR's are tight given the wide rim/post spacing. I would have your mechanic try a "modern" Deore or DXR V-brake, space the pads for max room as all have mentioned above and keep your housing/levers etc as is before investing in cantis...

-Ben