RE: [650B] 650b on 26" frame - promax p-1 brakes

[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

 

 

I have a 26 inch Waterford built touring bike (similar to a Riv Atlantis before they went all in on the long chain stays)

 

650b will fit and the  XTR v brakes will work. Richard Schwinn mentioned that it would alter the steering and mildly recommended against it.  The bike was designed for a 26 X 1.6 inch tire.  I have a chart that shows the difference in will circumference is just a few millimeters. 640mm V 670mm.  However we know that just a few millimeters change of frame geometry is a big deal.

 

Other than availability of tires/fendors (can’t fit larger than actual 26 X 47 mm tire)  

 

what advantage do you see on either the handling/speed/bump roll over of the changeup from's 26 to 650 B

 

thank you,  ye of more experience than I.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Bernard F. Duhon

 

From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Will Boericke
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2024 7:44 PM
To: 650b <65...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [650B] 650b on 26" frame - promax p-1 brakes

 

I built a 650b on 26 Trek 850 frame with the Chinese version (maybe the same thing?).  They worked really well.  Granted, I sold the bike pretty quickly.

 

Will near Boston

 

 

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 11:00:13 AM UTC-4 rudy....@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, I'm using on a 1990-ish (non-U-brake era) Diamond Back Ascent basket bike. I haven't shredded with it, but they stop my schlubby self and cargo with aplomb. I imagine that it will be even better when I get around to Kool Stops

 

RF

On Monday, August 26, 2024 at 6:59:56 AM UTC-5 josh.zi...@gmail.com wrote:

Yes I have used them for this purpose on '89 Trek 950. 

Originally, had Tektro cantis (CR720s) which looked great but they worked only ok due to where I could get the pads to align on the rim.  Swapped in these Pro-Max v brakes (108mm, silver version) and the braking dramatically improved as they offered better range to get pads in better position, plus v brake leverage/power.

These are a great option.  Highly recommend.

Josh Z

 

On Mon, Aug 26, 2024, 4:40 AM chintan jadwani <chintan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone tried the promax p-1 v-brakes on a 26" to 650b conversion?

They have about 35mm of vertical brake pad adjustment so probably they should work...

 

From what I read, they are similar (cheaper and less premium) to the box three v-brake.

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[Will Boericke]

I am skeptical of the wheel-size-dramatcially-affects-geometry argument.  I can only argue from analogy - my gravel bike wears 700x42 normally, but I am equally happy on 650x48.  Crank strike is more of an issue, but I just watch out for that and use crank boots.  BB is definitely lower, but I honestly don't really notice.  I notice no difference in handling, other than maybe slightly snappier steering.

Will

[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

 

For sure when I did a 700 C X 25mm to 650b 38/42 mm I noticed no difference

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Bernard F. Duhon

[iamkeith]

If you want my opinion, I can't imagine why in the world you'd want to do this.  I have 26" bikes, 650b bikes and 700c bikes, but I rarely ride anything but the 26" bikes.  They are just better in every possible way...  except perhaps aesthetics... to some people, but not me.   (I'm speaking of road bikes, not mountain bikes, where the bigger wheels actually do have an advantage.)  I agree that it won't materially affect your handling.  In most cases, what it will do is simply limit the size of the tire you can fit, so that you basically have the same overall diameter wheel but have to deal with harsher-riding, more-inflated tires as a result.  And your braking power will be reduced, because you have less leverage at the brake arm.  (At least for cantis.)    If by some chance you CAN fit a taller overall wheel, you'll have a higher bottom bracket and higher center of gravity and reduced stand-over clearance - all of which are negatives to my way of thinking - but especially on a loaded touring bike.  You have fewer tire choices in 650b than 26".  If you have 135mm rear end spacing and QR dropouts, high-end 26" wheels are relatively easy to find on the second hand market (or in bike coops/shops, if you're on tour) because they dominated the mountain bike market for so long.  Finding good, im-brake 650b rims/wheels is already a challenge.

[iamkeith]

...I meant to say that it won't materially affect your "steering" geometry.  If the overall diameter doesn't change, the trail calculation doesn't change.  Additionally, there's a "pneumatic" trail   effect, where a fatter tire feels like it has more trail.  So a slightly taller tire with less volume might feel exactly the same.

But it will most definitely impact you "handling."  The smaller wheels have a lower gyroscopic center of gravity, and more stable handling as a result. They also have less inertia, and are easier to accelerate.  (The flip side is that they don't carry speed/momentum as well, but that's not such an issue on paved surfaces as it is on rocky trails.)

Keep in mind that this all assumes that you are using high-quality, lightweight, supple tires and tubes, filled with weightless air.  in such case, the rim is the heavy part of the wheel.  If you were comparing heavy tubes and tires on a 26" setup to lightweight tubes and tires on a 650b setup, then it's not really a fair comparison.

[chintan jadwani]

my intent to try and fit 650b/27.5 wheels on my 26" bike was twofold - due to the gravel bike popularity, second-hand 27.5" wheelset often come up that I can take up as a spare + the availability of supple 650 tyres compared to 26 inch; second was my bike is designed around 26x2.0+ so 650b gives the opportunity for a slimmer tyre without messing the BB height - 26x1.5 on my bike will be too low for instance.

@bernard - have you tried your xtr v-brake on the 650b wheel or is that an assumption?

[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

 

 

The XtR brake reach for 650 B might need a little extra reach I would use my brake pads that offset about an extra centimeter of reach.

 

I have used those pads to get extra distance I need on the brakes from 700 C to 650 B .

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Bernard F. Duhon

 

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[Fred Marsh]

If the bike is optimized for 26 x 2.1 tires, you won't get the real benefit of going to 650b IMHO.

If you could only fit skinny 650b tires, I don't think it's worth it. 

I converted my Schwinn Moab bc it fit 650 x 47 tires, which drastically improved the ride. 

- Fred,

 Mount Prospect, IL

Dare I say this thing rides as nice as my Bleriot:

https://i.imgur.com/yqNJsvQ.jpg

[Chintan Jadwani]

Sorry, by skinny i meant 'skinnier', somewhere around 1.5 to 1.75"..

the bike can clear 2.5" I think with 26". 

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[Fred Marsh]

Ah, in that case I would try it if you have a wheelset handy. I have a few 650 x 47 pairs of tires I can send if you want to try fitting them.

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