Brooks b17 select - opinions?

[Jeffrey B]

It's time to consult the wisdom of this group again, this time for some saddle advice. I've heard mixed reviews about the quality of modern "standard" brooks saddles. Is the select line really any better? Specifically, does the leather hold its shape better? Thanks all!

Jeff
Arlington, VA

[Eric Karnes]

I'm a newer Brooks user, but I found the quality of my standard B17 to be very good...much, much better than the Selle Anatomica it replaced. That said, I found the dye transfer a bit annoying, so I switched to a Cambium. 

But if I go the leather route again, I'd definitely get the B17 Select. My only issue was with the stained pants...and apparently that's not an issue with the un-dyed select.

Eric

[Philip Kim]

Jeff I have the special TI and it's very excellent.

[René Sterental]

I read the Select series has been discontinued by Brooks, so grab them while you can. I just started using a B17 Select on my custom, and so far, it's been very nice. I ride padded underwear now. You can still find them around, but don't wait too long.

Applying Proofide makes it look a rich honey, and will progressively darken. I'm following Brooks instructions to apply Proofide several times while breaking it in, so I'm on my second coat now and it looks gorgeous.

Can't tell about long term usage, but I went for it based on feedback from people in this forum.

René 

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Philip Kim <phili...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff I have the special TI and it's very excellent.

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[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/08/2016 10:23 PM, Jeffrey B wrote:
> It's time to consult the wisdom of this group again, this time for some saddle advice. I've heard mixed reviews about the quality of modern "standard" brooks saddles. Is the select line really any better? Specifically, does the leather hold its shape better? Thanks all!
>
>

By all accounts, yes.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Well I am a fan-girl of Brooks (except for the Cambiums).  There is the Standard which has always worked well for me.  One of my favorites is the plain old black Standard.  The leather is not as robust as the Select but it has a softness to it early on that is very comfortable.  I understand that may not speak to as long a life but it sure feels good now.  I also have the Special which is a tougher leather option with the large rivets.  I much prefer the looks of the larger rivets and the saddle is comfortable but much harder than the Standard.

Finally to get to the Select which you asked about,.I just ordered a B-17 Select for my inventory because they were discontinued and I wanted to use it in the  future..  I have the Select B-67 which I like but is not on a bike at the moment.  I am planning on putting the B-17 Select on my forthcoming Cheviot so I have no reviews at this point.  However, it is a beautiful saddle with thick leather.  So, if the B-17 in general suits you, I wouldn't hesitate to leap for one.

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 10:23:29 PM UTC-4, Jeffrey B wrote:

[drew]

i have heard conflicting info. namely that the discontinuation was a rumor. anyone have the official news from an official place?

[Will Ashe]

I've had two B17 Standards and one Select, which is on my Sam. In my experience the Standard saddles have been much more comfortable out of the box, they never really needed a break-in period. The Select I'm on now is much more stiff, and my sit bones were sore after about 20 miles for the first few months. I've had the saddle for about 6 months now and it is more comfortable. I'm excited to see how it transforms over the years.

Will

Los Angeles, CA

[Chris Birkenmaier]

It was mentioned above that it may just be misinformation about the model being discontinued.  I remember seeing it somewhere a while back from - wait - Rivendell?  Yeah, I think it was their site that mentioned it.  I just checked on the main Brooks site and it shows the Select and ordering availability.  However, I do know that Brooks has lagged current information which is kind of odd to happen.

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 10:23:29 PM UTC-4, Jeffrey B wrote:

[Chris Birkenmaier]

178.00 Made in: UK Availability: discontinued by Brooks, while supplies last... product code: S6-11003

Qty:

Yep - It was on the Saddle page of RBW.

[René Sterental]

If you browse online, you can still find the B17 Select in some sites, but in others it already shows OOS and a similar message to the RBW site.

I was looking for a B17 Flyer Select and only found it on a site in Germany. Everywhere else it isn't available anymore, even in the UK. 

So if you want one, get it now.

René 

--

[Jeffrey B]

Ok, thanks again all! On the hunt for a select...

[Ron Mc]

Late to the party, but you made the right choice.  I have a Select and a Special with about equal miles.  This summer, I'm having to wrap a toe strap around the Special after each ride to keep it from ridging, and it's stretching enough to see the frame beneath.  The next step will be lacing.  

The Select took a little bit of stretch bolt this summer, but it's flat, no ridge, and no impression of the underlying frame in the leather.  .  

[Austin ^]

B17 Select is good for fairly high mileage. Mine is three years old with about 20,000 miles, is polished to a beautiful deep brown with no signs of fatigue and I've never had to tighten the bolt. I ride daily year round in all weather in the pacific northwest, and I probably remember to put the seat cover on in the rain about half the time. The bike lives indoors, saddle dries out between really wet rides, and I treat it with montana pitch blend leather dressing when the seasons change. The only real down side (which isn't likely a huge consideration here) is that it's not the lightest saddle on earth. I like it enough to have two more put back to fill its role when it finally gives up.

On Thursday, September 8, 2016 at 7:23:29 PM UTC-7, Jeffrey B wrote:

[Ryan Fleming]

I think on Monday (Sep 12) I was browsing Amazon (is there anything they don't sell? ) and they had 4 in stock. 

I just checked now , and now they say they have 3...$171.00 - 10% discount

https://www.amazon.com/Brooks-Saddles-Mens-Select-Saddle/dp/B00S4DC10W 

I ordered one for my Riv custom mixte back in February...when I saw this thread, I emailed Mark at Riv who's got one on the shelf earmarked for me so I don't have to worry about ordering one. 

I have a Brooks standard on my X0-1 and 2 B-17  specials on my 2 other rivendells. Honestly, I do not think the B-17 standards are as durable or thick as they were 10 or 15 years ago

[Matt B.]

The B17 Selects have thicker leather that doesn't stretch as easily, which is a good thing. They still break-in and get really comfortable, just takes more time.  Mine's about 3 years old also and I've never had to adjust the tension, whereas I've had other late-model B17's severely deform in a matter of months (mostly due to rain, but the select model I have gets just as much use and sees just as much rain). 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:

I have a Brooks standard on my X0-1 and 2 B-17  specials on my 2 other rivendells. Honestly, I do not think the B-17 standards are as durable or thick as they were 10 or 15 years ago

 

This is my impression too. I have two older B17's that are much more stout than the current normal ones. Anyway I hope Brooks doesn't discontinue the Select models, or I wish they would make their normal models just as good because the B17 shape is nearly perfect for my backside.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I also ordered one online to make sure I had a spare one should I need in the future.  I have some older saddles that I got off of eBay and have to agree that saddles from the 1970/1980 even 1990 are thicker leather than the new ones produced now.

[René Sterental]

If you are going to buy a few "extra" Select saddles to have for future use, would you store them as is or would you Proofide them and then store them?

René 

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Rene, I will proofhide it.  I have a Select now that will go on my new Cheviot and one will be the "spare" for future use.  So not too much hoarding but I did want to make sure I had an extra one if in fact they were discontinued.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 4:12:33 PM UTC-4, René wrote:

If you are going to buy a few "extra" Select saddles to have for future use, would you store them as is or would you Proofide them and then store them?

René 

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Matt B. <matthi...@gmail.com> wrote:

The B17 Selects have thicker leather that doesn't stretch as easily, which is a good thing. They still break-in and get really comfortable, just takes more time.  Mine's about 3 years old also and I've never had to adjust the tension, whereas I've had other late-model B17's severely deform in a matter of months (mostly due to rain, but the select model I have gets just as much use and sees just as much rain). 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:

I have a Brooks standard on my X0-1 and 2 B-17  specials on my 2 other rivendells. Honestly, I do not think the B-17 standards are as durable or thick as they were 10 or 15 years ago

 

This is my impression too. I have two older B17's that are much more stout than the current normal ones. Anyway I hope Brooks doesn't discontinue the Select models, or I wish they would make their normal models just as good because the B17 shape is nearly perfect for my backside.

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[René Sterental]

Thanks. That's what I thought made sense. Will do the same.

René 

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[Cameron Murphy]

Rene,

I would certainly proofhide any saddles I wanted to store long term.  The tanning process leaches a lot of the natural oils out of the leather, which are then replaced to some degree at later stages at the tannery before being sent off to Brooks.  As far as I know, Brooks doesn't do any further treatment to the hides before shipping the saddles off.  Exposure to air over time will cause some lighter oil fractions to evaporate, and others to oxidize, forming things closer to varnish or wax than oil.  The goal of dressings like proofhide is to replace those oils, and by doing so, protect the leather fibers themselves from drying out and or oxidizing, and keeping the leather somewhat pliable.  Left perfectly alone, depending on temperature and humidity, the leather will eventually dry out and become brittle and or crack. ("Eventually" may be years or multiple decades depending on conditions, and initial leather quality and tanning)  Some of that damage can be undone by treatments like proofhide at a later date, but it would be best to avoid the damage in the first place.   I would proofhide them before storage, and if possible, give them another light coat every year or two.

Cameron Murphy

San Marcos, CA

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 1:12:33 PM UTC-7, René wrote:

If you are going to buy a few "extra" Select saddles to have for future use, would you store them as is or would you Proofide them and then store them?

René 

On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Matt B. <matthi...@gmail.com> wrote:

The B17 Selects have thicker leather that doesn't stretch as easily, which is a good thing. They still break-in and get really comfortable, just takes more time.  Mine's about 3 years old also and I've never had to adjust the tension, whereas I've had other late-model B17's severely deform in a matter of months (mostly due to rain, but the select model I have gets just as much use and sees just as much rain). 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 2:02:12 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:

I have a Brooks standard on my X0-1 and 2 B-17  specials on my 2 other rivendells. Honestly, I do not think the B-17 standards are as durable or thick as they were 10 or 15 years ago

 

This is my impression too. I have two older B17's that are much more stout than the current normal ones. Anyway I hope Brooks doesn't discontinue the Select models, or I wish they would make their normal models just as good because the B17 shape is nearly perfect for my backside.

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[IanA]

I can speak to two standard B17's and one Professional.  I bought the first B17 in 2008 (I think) and it has around 40,000km under my bum.  It is definitely characterful, but still is firm and usable (I did install a longer bolt for extra stretch).  The second B17 was bought around the same time and has far less mileage, but has stretched more and I'm thinking of drilling and lacing it.

The Professional (standard rivets, brown) was bought 2014(ish) ans has been used on some metric centuries and lots of commuting miles.  I love that saddle and don't recall adjusting it more than once.  I will admit that it was only 40 euros or so as I bought it on sale from Germany.   I find the Professional fits somewhat like a slightly narrower B17 - the skirt is less intrusive, but the top feels as wide as a B17. The leather feels thicker than the B17 IMO.

Ian A

It is this model here https://www.google.ca/search?q=brooks+professional+chrome+rails&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=681&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEqq2SypDPAhWH6YMKHSDjAIYQ_AUIBigB&dpr=1#imgrc=3Lgz5ZJczH6wfM%3A

[René Sterental]

Thanks for the advice Cameron. 

René 

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[Caroline Golum]

FWIW I've had a few different iterations of the B17 over the last eight years. Personally, I'm partial to the B17 champion - I've used both the mens' and the womens' s-model - and for my money the cut-out and lacing are fabulous features. The cut-out is pretty self-explanatory, relieves pressure in the "soft tissue areas," and I use the lacing underneath to re-tighten the saddle when it starts to sag.