New Riv cantilever brakes

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

As more details are revealed in Grant's Mid-Sept Blahg, it appears the design is reminiscent of Avid's Shorty Ultimate cantilever brakes; but the Riv variant has an interesting regular 12-sided (dodecagonical?) lobe "torque tube" to adjust the angle between pad and actuation arms, whereas the Avid variant only has two setting (wide and narrow). I've never seen this design before on any cantilever brake, and wonder what benefit it brings, other than being able to adjust the arm angle, and control the return spring tension, both in 30° increments.

[Jason Fuller]

From an engineering perspective, I was meh on the new canti brake design, to be honest.  The arms are hollowed in the direction that reduces stiffness during braking forces, and the fact the allen end is blocked by the canti arm would probably annoy me in use. Not that it's a bad looking brake but there's plenty of great canti brakes out there already at the full range of price points! 

Seems way more useful to put energy into a nice, classy but unique v-brake IMO!  But Grant's gonna be Grant and I love that about him. 

[Daniel M]

I believe Grant is also working on a V-brake and I will certainly buy a set the moment they become available.

Daniel M
Berkeley, CA

[Garth]

I was hoping for a simpler, old-school sort of cantilever, more like the Rene Herse version which while wildly priced, ticks all the boxes of what I'd like in a cantilever brake (Post style pads with toe-in washers, pads open up wide past the frame). 

I can't say much about the Riv design though as I've not seem them in person as to how they work, or tire/frame clearance and all. The blueprint appears complicated though. 

Cantilevers matter to me, I prefer what the bike industry must consider "not very user friendly" as I find that comical as they ARE friendly ! The kind with post style pads and washers for toe in. Infinite adjustabilty. 

V-brakes and "user friendly" ?  Nah ... what fun is that ? !!!  

 

[S]

I agree that the design looks very close to the Avid Shorty. I still plan to buy a pair, if they aren't too expensive.

I like that Riv is offering more original parts and tools. I think this could be a growth area for them, especially the tools, which usually sell out instantly. And since their frame designs have begun to diverge from my tastes -- eg, I am disappointed the new Hillborne will have ball and socket seat stay ends and longer chainstays -- the parts and tools give me a way to keep supporting them.

[Joel Stern]

S, this is the second time I have heard this in 2 days, here and on the FB RBW site.  I would hope the chainstays in the Sam would remain the same so we would have some variety.  I found an Orange Sam, new at a decent price but I am not sure on the orange, but now it is a big maybe.  

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[S]

Yes, quite a few group members have called the SH the "perfect Riv," or words to that effect, and I was set to buy one when they became available. No longer. I wish they had left well enough, or maybe even "perfect," alone. I agree variety would be nice -- I don't think chainstay length is as cut-and-dried a design decision as the latest email made it sound, "the chainstays were too short." There are always trade offs in bike design and although I agree that *longish* stays are good, I think Riv has taken that idea a bit too far or, at least, applied it too widely. Of course, up to them. They dig it, I don't, no big deal, I will buy the parts and tools instead.

[Joel Stern]

Thanks, I just pulled up the latest email, it got by me.  

“ The seattube sizes are slightly different this time. Here's the PBH range:

48cm 650b = 77-80cm
51cm 650b = 80-83cm 
54cm 700c = 84-86cm 
57cm 700c = 86-90cm 
60cm  700c = 89-94cm

The changes from the last batch are minimal:

• Ball n socket seatlugs
• Slightly longer chainstays. The 60cm has the longest at 48.5cm. They were too short before.

It's compatible with all of our bars from Bosco to Noodles and is good for just about all reasonable riding.

It's not a full blown trail bike like the Gus/Susie but it'll do just fine on most trails and isn't inappropriate on a road ride either if you're with like-minded people. You can stretch it into almost all types of riding outside of downhill, BMX and road racing.

I used mine for Mt Diablo lunch rides with speedy Mark, one night camping trips on fairly mellow trails, and even unloaded, careful singletrack riding. Most of the time it was a fantastic commuter though.” 

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[S]

Maybe the "slightly longer" stays are truly that. And maybe I could get over the ball and socket ends. I hope photos of the actual frame change my mind. In any case, more depends on whether or not one of the frame sizes happens to fit the sweet spot for me.

[Mark Roland]

The SH comes in five sizes, increments of 3cm from 48 to 60cm, so unless a person is unusually tall or short, or has proportions that generally "require" a custom geometry, I would think there is a sweet spot in there for the 99 percent. I realize there are other parameters than just seat tube length, but one would think the designer keeps that in mind. And of course you have stem lengths, handlebar reach, seat post setback, saddle rail length, all to fine tune a fit. I am thankful my sweet spot is fairly big. We certainly live in a time of consumer "choice". The more "choices" we have access to, the pickier we get! Human nature I suppose. (I put "choice" in quotes because the choices we often have are not much of a choice, in my opinion. For example, you can choose a blue car or a red one, but for the vast majority, you must have a car to get along.)

[S]

I admit to being picky, but then, I would guess this is true of most posters in the group. The shorter stays and trad end caps were part of why I was interested in the SH to begin with, so if my ideal geo happens to fall between sizes, that's just one more check on the "con" side. Again, yes, I am being picky, but these frames are $1500-1800. As I said, maybe the photos of the actual frames change my mind. That would be great.

[Joel Stern]

On the previous numbers I was in the middle for a 51cm.  I didn’t think the 51 has changed in any way but now I am no longer in the middle with an 80.6 PBH.  

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[Mark Roland]

My post wasn't meant to single you out, other than as random example of a trend we are mostly all caught up in some way or another. I'm not so precious about frame size as long as it's within range, but I have become a tire snob. Way too many dang tire choices out there right now. Though that could change in the years ahead...

[S]

No worries. My point is that, although the SH most closely matches the kind of frame I want, I am considering other Riv models as well, and frame geo is one of the factors I am weighing. I wouldn't rule out any frame for not exactly matching my ideal. In fact, most of my bikes are less than perfect in this way-- in particular, I am in between sizes on older Treks.