Stein's 'Hypercracker' Tool and Riv Dropouts

[John Rinker]

Good afternoon,

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using the Stein 'hypercracker' Shimano cassette remover on their Riv frames. In particular, I concerned about where the locking device (mini-stud) would connect with the dropout- right on a braze-on- when using the tool to remove the lock-ring on the cassette. According to Stein's instructions, one is not supposed to let the mini-stud connect with the derailleur hanger and so recommends the the back of the dropout. Unfortunately (fortunately in most cases!), Riv's have a  braze-on right there. Seems to me that it would pop that braze-on right off. Seems to me the derailleur hanger would be much stronger.

These tools are meant for emergency situations only when one is far from a bike shop or their own whip and lockring tool.

Cheers, John

[Lum Gim Fong]

One time a cassette came loose on the road and I used tw0 Allen wrenches to just screw the locknut back on and it held fine after that for rest of ride.

[Bill Lindsay]

I have three thoughts on this:

1.  The recommended torque rating for a cassette lockring is typically 40 N-m.  For those who don't know what that means, that is solidly in the "Really freaking tight" regime.  Like as tight as crank bolts.  In my opinion, that torque rating for a cassette lockring is absurd.  Cassette cogs slide onto a spline.  The top one is only half-engaged with a spline.  The job of the lockring is to keep the cogset on the spline and to not allow the cogs to be loose enough to wiggle.  In my opinion, cassette lockrings need not be tightened much farther than 'snug'.  I've never torque wrenched a cassette lockring but my guess is I'm in the 10 N-m range on my bikes. 

2.  If your cassette lockring has been installed to 40 N-m, I doubt you will be able to remove a cassette lockring with that Stein tool, no matter what part of the dropout you try to brace the tool against.

3.  Whenever I've prepped my bike for a tour, if I'm carrying a compact tool like the Stein, I use that tool to install the lockring, so I know I can use that tool to remove the lockring.  I'd remove the lockring with a 'normal' lockring tool/chainwhip, and then install the lockring with an allen key in the Stein tool.  Just get it snug.  Then you'll know you can remove it easily with that same tool when you need to do so.

Bill  'setting my own torque ratings since 1982' Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Adam in Indiana]

A few thoughts on this thread:

1) That eyelet is actually a cast part of the dropout, not a braze-on, unless I'm mistaken. So it's quite a bit stronger than it looks. Still, I agree with the consensus that the hanger (also cast into the dropout) is going to be stronger still, and I wouldn't let it connect with that eylet.

2) On Bill's thoughts in regard to the cassette torque. I've always been under the assumption that the high torque rating for cassettes was to ensure sufficient friction between each cog and spacer, thereby ensuring (mostly) they all work together as a unit instead of separately. With a steel driver spline, this may not be too important, but I've seen some pretty ate up aluminum splines, where individual cogs were able to press into the softer aluminum. You can still get some spline damage even with higher cassette torque, but it's far less than an under-torqued cassette.

...As a side note, in my background with diesel engines, 40nm is actually pretty low... We'd spec M10 bolts to 48nm, M12 bolts to 80nm. I still have to recalibrate my mindset when working on bikes to avoid hamfisting things...

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 2:29:49 AM UTC-5, John Rinker wrote:
> Good afternoon,
>
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience with using the Stein 'hypercracker' Shimano cassette remover on their Riv frames. In particular, I concerned about where the locking device (mini-stud) would connect with the dropout- right on a braze-on- when using the tool to remove the lock-ring on the cassette. According to Stein's instructions, one is not supposed to let the mini-stud connect with the derailleur hanger and so recommends the the back of the dropout. Unfortunately (fortunately in most cases!), Riv's have a  braze-on right there. Seems to me that it would pop that braze-on right off. Seems to me the derailleur hanger would be much stronger.
>
>
>

[Lum Gim Fong]

"Tighten it 'til it smokes" is my motto!

[LeRoy]

When it comes to fasteners with really high torque values, and when no torque wrench is available, a good approximation is to tighten it until you fart.

LeRoy

[Mike Godwin]

Its good that is not a rule of thumb Leroy.
mike

[John Rinker]

Thanks Bill. Your suggestion in #3 is precisely what I have done. 

I've removed the lockring many times and reinstalled, but never with a torque wrench. I've always just tightened it about a 'scosh' more than snug and have never had issues. 

Cheers. John

[John Rinker]

Ha! Sounds like a fine SNL skit 'The Flatulent Mechanic'.

[MTR]

you can also brace the stein tool on the inside dropout, within the triangle 

On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 11:29:49 PM UTC-8, John Rinker wrote:

[John Rinker]

Yes, of course! Makes total sense. Thanks.

[Tony]

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 10:21:20 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:

The recommended torque rating for a cassette lockring is typically 40 N-m.  

Bill  'setting my own torque ratings since 1982' Lindsay

I remember Grant writing that cassettes cranked down to 30 N-m is how bikes leave Rivendell. I have used that for 9+ years with no safety problem and an easy enough time getting the lockring loose that I routinely take the cassette off as part of a chain clean.

Tony