Do you ride with fenders?

[Stephen Durfee]

I'm packing my bike for a summer road trip - my son and I are flying to Buffalo, NY and riding the Erie Canal route to Albany, visiting friends and family along the way. As I fit my bike into a cardboard box for travel, I'm wondering whether to add fenders to the box...

In NorCal, we know that rain pretty much comes in the winter months only, and so most of my bikes don't wear fenders. That said, I do have fenders on my commuter, and appreciate the value they bring...I would have taken them off for the summer, but either I forgot, or was too lazy...

Which leads to the question - who rides with fenders, and do you leave them on year 'round?

[Kim H.]

I live in the PNW where it rains a lot throughout most of the year. It is essential that I have fenders on my bike, a Clem Smith Jr. "L".  Honjo fenders to be specific. Yes, I leave them on my bike year round.

Kim Hetzel.

[Jay Lonner]

My commuter (Hunq) is befendered full-time.

My travel bike (BF NWT) has PDW Origami fenders, which are easy to remove for packing.

My bikepacking, full-squish MTB, and fast gravel bikes are fenderless.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Aug 23, 2024, at 8:53 PM, Stephen Durfee <chefd...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm packing my bike for a summer road trip - my son and I are flying to Buffalo, NY and riding the Erie Canal route to Albany, visiting friends and family along the way. As I fit my bike into a cardboard box for travel, I'm wondering whether to add fenders to the box...

In NorCal, we know that rain pretty much comes in the winter months only, and so most of my bikes don't wear fenders. That said, I do have fenders on my commuter, and appreciate the value they bring...I would have taken them off for the summer, but either I forgot, or was too lazy...

Which leads to the question - who rides with fenders, and do you leave them on year 'round?

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[Patrick Moore]

Here in ABQ, NM with a citywide average of 9" of precipitation per year (higher near the mountains, less on the Westside; our "monsoon" rain comes either in 15 minute torrents or -- often -- in 10 minutes "spits" of .01" to .05", like the rain during the last 2 nights), but I still have permanent full fenders on 2 bikes because I'll occasionally ride during a rain shower or in snow melt, I want well-installed and good looking fenders, and this, for me means metal which I dislike repeatedly installing and removing. And, for the dirt road bike, fenders do help noticeably in keeping find dust off the upper parts of the bike; not to mention the widely distributed horse shit. Even my former Monocog had shorties permanently installed.

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[Bernard Duhon]

 two of, my bike i keep fenders on all the time.

I took 2 two week trips on my bicycle both times I had fenders and we’re glad I did. It only rained all day once. The other on the gap and c & o it kept my bike a lot cleaner, even though the trail is relatively dry. They don’t slow you down they don’t get in your way.

Actually, they make your bike look good and we get to hang out and exchange information with the other people that you meet that also have fenders.

Both of the traveling bikes have VO fenders, but my town bike has esage both work equally well and the esage have considerably less toe overlap

That’s another subject that I’ve remedied by

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2024 8:26:01 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] Do you ride with fenders?

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtgvxghghmyavvW%2B6Vzzw%3DJ2kH52G8bCgvhV5afAyoV2w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Michael Kashuba]

My 2 cents…35 year old REI Randonee, 4 year old Rivendell Appaloosa, 1 year old Vado SL 4.0 EQ all wear fenders, 24/7/365…keeps me, bags, drivetrain and person following me cleaner…plus I favor the look, always carry stuff (camera, binoculars. Tripod, spotting scope, etc…) am slow and have never been a weight weenie 😉 I do have a Fuji and a Trek that runs fenderless however…

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 24, 2024, at 6:45 AM, Bernard Duhon <ber...@bernardduhon.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CH2PR17MB372092AB758FCEEDB1338B3FCD892%40CH2PR17MB3720.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.

[Tom Horton]

in the mid-atlantic I ride fendered and un.  a clip on rear fender stops the worst, also a piece of cardboard  ziptied to a rear rack. goretex socks and rainpants pack  up small and light, work well.

[asc pgh]

Yes. All of my bikes, all year round for all of the same reasons as the PNW folks but when it is dry, the rail trail dust can be kept out of your drivetrain with a nice long and adequately wide flap on the front fender.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh 

[John Dewey]

+ 1. 

They keep the bikes so clean and add valuable style points. 

JD

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[Bill Lindsay]

Andy said "all my bikes, year round"

JD said " +1, me too"

Is that true, Jock?  You don't own any bikes without year-round fenders?  I pretty much associate you with an often-posted photo of a Lilac Paramount that doesn't have any fender attachment points.  Is that an old photo, and you have subsequently designed a fender setup for even your Paramount?  Or do you actually only run fenders on some of your bikes?

In my garage right now there are 15 of my single bikes.  Six of those bikes have fenders, and all of those are "proper" full metal fenders, and I'd call them all year-round-fender wearers.  One additional bike has a "road" configuration and a "dirt" configuration, and it is currently in "dirt" configuration without its fenders, and the metal fenders are carefully stored on a hook in the rafters, along with the "road" tires.  That's the one bike that I plan on taking them off and putting them back on.  On another hook are a few sets of plastic fenders that I have had deployed on various bikes over the years.  I've pretty much gotten out of the plastic fender game, but keep them around just in case.  

BL in EC

[Matti]

I live in rainy Portland, OR, and I ride with fenders (aluminum VO snakeskin) year round.  I'm retired now, and I can choose when to ride, but my use of fenders began when I commuted daily to work no matter what the weather was doing.  I feel like my bike looks fully dressed with fenders, and it is just too much work to take them off and on seasonally.  I used to run SKS plastic fenders, but to my eye, aluminum fenders look better with my Sam Hillborne.  And in my experience, they are quieter, too.  At the end of winter there is always a layer of decomposed leaves and grime that has accumulated on the underside of the fenders, which amounts to a surprising amount once it is cleaned off and sits in a pile on the floor... Gunk that otherwise would have been sprayed on my bike and me!

[aeroperf]

The Erie Canal Bike Trail is a nice ride.
But put the fenders in the box.  Not just for when it rains - there’s a reason they’re called “mudguards”.

[nlerner]

A friend and I rode the EST from Rochester to Albany just a couple of weeks ago. We were both sporting fenders, and I was glad to have them because (1) it poured down rain for about an hour or so on one of our days and (2) fenders kept the dust/dirt kicked up on the unpaved sections off of my legs and body. For a very flat course, the fender weight penalty didn’t really matter.

Neal Lerner

Brookline MA

[Patrick Moore]

From memory: pair 26" X ~70 mm (just fit over 60 mm Big Apples) SKS's weighed 2 lb.

Pair 650b X 50 Berthouds (st steel) also 2 lb.

Pair 26" VO aluminum 50s 1 lb.

Pair ditto Honjos also 1 lb.

Pair Kelpie 80 mm 700c X 80, 50% thicker alum sheet, 50 or 100% thicker stays: 2 lb. (I lost ~1/2 lb by amputating 1/3 of the rear and losing the stays since the custom rack as a fender boss at bottom rear.)

These Kelpies are about 2X as long as the short 26" SKS ~70s -- much fuller coverage for 3" taller wheel.

So, not much weight at all, and alum fenders are lighter than SKS's of more or less the same size and of course than s steel.

Patrick "my Joe Starck gofast will never wear fenders" Moore

On Sat, Aug 24, 2024 at 2:59 PM nlerner <lern...@gmail.com> wrote:

... For a very flat course, the fender weight penalty didn’t really matter.

[Pam Bikes]

I've ridden w/fenders daily for the past 13 years and love them.  Install the rear fender, put the front one over the rear in the box.  If you have a Sheldon's fender nut it makes the front installation that much easier.  

[LeRoy]

I ride with all the fenders, all the time, on all my bike (singular). Unlike many on this forum, it's easier for me to say and do that since I only have one bike - a Clem 59H. And, in the interests of accuracy in counting, I'm not including my 1970s road bike because it simply decorates a wall as "hanging art" in the garage.

That being said, I have considered removing the fenders from time-to-time. But it's really simpler to keep them in place. They don't weigh much in the context of a fully dressed Clem. Pragmatically speaking rain, mud or dust are frequent enough encounters that the fenders provide their protection, both for me and those riding behind me. And they look good.

Bob

[Nick A.]

I have 4 bicycles, and the only one with fenders is my "around town" basket bike. My Atlantis is fender-free.

[RichS]

Joining the fender parade. Years ago I was influenced by Jan Heine's endorsement of fenders plus the French and British tradition of using them.

Currently using Berthoud's but have been pleased with VO and SKS models. If I get tired of the smooth Berthoud's I have some Honjo fluted gems waiting to be put into use. 

Honestly though, I have seen some bikes sans fenders that appeal to me looking just right with their clean, bare bones, wispy appearance.

Jock's Paramount perhaps?

Best,

Rich in ATL 

[iamkeith]

Most of my road-ish bikes have permantly-mounted fenders, and  some of my mountain-ish bikes do too.  Where I live and ride, in the WY/MT/ID/UT area, I can really only ride about 6 mos a year at best (except for fat bikes) and it's pretty arid during those months.  However I only ride for fun, when I get a chance, on weekends and evenings mostly.  Those opportunities inevitably coincide with the few times it DOES  rain - often unexpectedly in the middle of a ride.  So fenders are the thing that keeps e from becoming a fair-weather pansy.  Plus  they protect the bike investment.

All that said, I'd be inclined to take some cheap clip-on fenders if I was traveling.  Fenders - even goof, plastic SKS type - tend to get beat up and warped when packing them. 

[ascpgh]

[ascpgh]

Whoops, dog nosed elbow sent before all done...

What and why fenders all the time on my bikes. 

Andy Cheatham 

Pittsburgh

[Will Boericke]

Commuters: yes.  All other bikes - race blades or equivalent.

Will near Boston

[Johnny Alien]

Used to put on fenders mainly because I liked the looks but since I only ride for enjoyment and not commuting I am never out in the rain so I am now fender free on everything. Just makes everything easier since I don't need them.

[Andrew Janjigian]

I had fenders on my Quickbeam for years, but they were just one more set of things that required maintenance and adjustment so I ditched them. I ride fixed because I want a bike that is simple to maintain and quiet, and fenders went against that. I ride in the rain if need be, and just wear gear or get wet & dirty. (I mostly use my bike as a commuter or for errands, and if I do a long ride, it won’t be when the sun isn’t shining.)

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[DavidP]

I have more roadish and all-rounder bikes with fenders than without. A bike "build" will include a decision of fenders or no and then stay that way until rebuilt/repurposed.

In addition to the benefits others have shared, I find that riding just after rain is a wonderful experience made better with fenders.

Potential drawbacks:
- need to be a bit less cavalier both on and off the bike
- not as easy to transport the bike
- smaller max tire size (but as long as the tire size matches the use, this isn't a big factor)

I tend to bring fenderless bikes on short family vacations, but if I was traveling for an extended bike trip I like Pam's suggestion for packing fenders.

-Dave (near Boston)

[Chris Halasz]

Similar to Johnny Alien: Fendered when commuting, and liked the looks then. I no longer commute, and avoid riding in the rain, so no fenders now. 

Thinking about a clip-on rear for the Clem, maybe. 

[Nick A.]

My town-and-commuter New Albion Privateer (vastly underrated frame IMO) has SKS fenders, because I ride through some light precipitation and namely on wet roads. My Atlantis is un-fendered, as I ride that in fair weather, which given the last couple of years here in northern Virginia, has been a lot of the time.

Nick, falls church VA

[Patrick Moore]

For the record, I've found metal fenders entirely trouble free if properly installed. I've used Berthouds, Honjos, and VOs on any number of bikes including fixed errand/commuting gear bikes, even with custom, extra-long dropouts, and even with 17/19 t Dingle cogs, and they have all been very quiet and required no maintenance -- which is why I much prefer horizontal dropouts to track ends.

3 speed fixed ASC hub:

[Patrick Moore]

The old 2003 Curt Riv custom (Dave Porter-modified with1010s) with Honjos and Dingle.

[John Dewey]

❤️👍🤪

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[Brian Turner]

Seems 26" fender choices are getting slimmer and slimmer. I wanted to find metal fenders for my Toyo Atlantis w/ 1.8" Naches Pass tires, and ended up going with 50mm Berthoud fenders. 60mm were recommended by the folks at Peter White and Berthoud, but I went with my gut on the 50mm and they turned out to be the perfect size. 60mm would've been too wide for these tires. Of course they were somewhat fiddly to get setup with the fender lines I wanted, but I'm really happy with the result.

26" Toyo w/ fenders

[Peter White]

Berthoud fenders are not consistent in their dimensions from end to end. And the 60mm fenders are 60mm on the outside. If you look at the underside of the Berthoud fenders, you'll see that the metal is folded underneath, and that makes the inside dimension much smaller than the outside (60mm) dimension. So the reason we would have recommended the 60mm size is so you're less likely to have something the tire picks up from the road surface get jammed between the tire and the fender. If it happens on the rear wheel, it's not that serious. Your wheel stops spinning and you come to a stop with perhaps a flat spot on the tire. If it happens on the front wheel, I wish you all the luck in the world, as you're going to need it.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 11:44 AM Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:

Seems 26" fender choices are getting slimmer and slimmer. I wanted to find metal fenders for my Toyo Atlantis w/ 1.8" Naches Pass tires, and ended up going with 50mm Berthoud fenders. 60mm were recommended by the folks at Peter White and Berthoud, but I went with my gut on the 50mm and they turned out to be the perfect size. 60mm would've been too wide for these tires. Of course they were somewhat fiddly to get setup with the fender lines I wanted, but I'm really happy with the result.

26" Toyo w/ fenders

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Peter White

[Brian Turner]

Thanks for the input, Peter. I appreciate your experience and concern. One advantage of metal fenders that have to be custom-fit is that you have more latitude for manipulating them. I manually flared the 50mm Berthoud fenders a bit, and ended up with 15mm clearance from the top of the tire to the inside surface of the fenders. Of course, that distance gets a bit less as you wrap around to the sides of the tires. I have approx. 8mm distance from tire to fender at the fender's edges.  I feel comfortable with those numbers, and that may even surpass the clearances I see on a lot of other metal fenders. Also, I have added the PDW safety tabs to the fender stays since that photo was taken.

Brian

Lex KY

[Patrick Moore]

IME the rear fender that tends to get banged up more than the front, particularly when carrying the bike in a motor vehicle, but also when carelessly backing it up or running it backward into a floor stand. I often amputate the rear fender so that its trailing edge ends just aft of the point on the tire where spray will hit a tall rear rack bag. Unless you regularly ride your bike in a group in the rain this provides ample coverage. (And, also IME, take the trouble to measure twice and cut once. I measured, or rather *guessed*, when amputating the very expensive rear Kelpie in the dirt road Matthews (the custom rack has a fender boss at the center of the bottom rear edge of the rack) and had to install a 6" rear mudflap to keep stuff off me and my rack bag.)

As for tire size: the Kelpies were designed to cover 700c X 60s: 29 1/2" X 61-2 mm actual, and they do that well; and to cover 584 X 75s which they would just cover though I never bothered with 650c wheels. As things are, the 49 mm Oracle Ridges are rather lost under the Kelpis but they don't look worse than the 29 mm actual Elk Passes that for a while I installed under 50 mm VOs on the pavement only Matthews.

Lastly, even shorties or clip-ons help a lot, not only to keep wet stuff off you and the bike, but even to keep a lot of dust off you and the upper parts of the bike. I had permanent clip-ons on the Monocog for that reason.

Question: in old entre les guerres photos of pro racers you often see wee mini fenders under the fork crown. Much later, in the 1970s, I'd often see such wee fenders under the rear caliper as well. What was the purpose of these very truncated mini-fenders? 1930s: to keep the headset free of stuff thrown up from the still-common dirt roads? 1970s: ??? Fashion? I can't imagine how these would keep any splash off the rider.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 1:23 PM DavidP <dphi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have more roadish and all-rounder bikes with fenders than without. A bike "build" will include a decision of fenders or no and then stay that way until rebuilt/repurposed.

In addition to the benefits others have shared, I find that riding just after rain is a wonderful experience made better with fenders.

Potential drawbacks:
- need to be a bit less cavalier both on and off the bike
- not as easy to transport the bike
- smaller max tire size (but as long as the tire size matches the use, this isn't a big factor)

I tend to bring fenderless bikes on short family vacations, but if I was traveling for an extended bike trip I like Pam's suggestion for packing fenders.

Patrick Moore, agressively bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM. 

[Patrick Moore]

Just read Peter's note so I went out to re-measure the Kelpies. They are 80 mm in chord and 90 mm in arc.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 2:16 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...  the Kelpies were designed to cover 700c X 60s ... and to cover 584 X 75s which they would just cover though I never bothered with 650c wheels

[Roberta]

In the past two of my three bikes had fenders.  I don’t like riding in the rain but sometimes I get caught in it and I like that Bike and I both stayed fairly dry. My Homer was fenderless until I went on a lovely ride in the dryer season, but unfortunately needed to go through a big puddle of dirty water. 

A few years ago, I did about 30 miles on the dry and dusty GAP trail.  I started that ride with a maroon colored bike, but ended up with a white one at the end.

[Feliks Ulvåen Isaksen]

I live in Oslo, Norway and riding with fenders is an absolute must, if you use your bike with any sort of regularity, such as commuting. I commute all year round, which means a whole lot of rain, sludge, snow and ice - so yeah, no getting around fenders.

I also happen to like the way a bike looks with fenders. I have my Sam fendered up with silver SKS bluemels, and happy with them. I'll have to get some mudflaps, though, now that the weather is getting wetter. 

[Glenn Mackin]

Agreed with aeroperf. It's been a pretty wet summer in Western NY; having fenders for the rain and/or potential mud is a good idea. 

[MikeS]

I wouldn’t even consider riding without fenders. Whether commuting or touring, it’s more than just rain you’ve got to worry about. Mud puddles, runoff from folks watering their lawns or washing cars, roadkill guts, dog sh¡t…, there’s all sorts of gross stuff out there I don’t want spraying over my legs, my bike, or my gear (or my friends.)

Cheers- Mike

happily befendered in Somerville, Mass