Question 27" wheel conversion to 700c wheels and maybe to 650b

[hsmitham]

Hey Folks,

First can a bike with 27" wheels (630mm) be converted to 700c ( 622mm) essentially 8mm difference smaller wheel diameter. What would be the best Canti breaks to use? And can a 27" wheel be converted to a 650B? There is a 46mm difference between 27" to 650B which seems too large a jump down for such a conversion. In advance thank you for any advice.

Best,

Hugh

Sunland, CA

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Hugh,

27" to 700C should be pretty smooth. The radius difference of 4mm means you need that much additional brake reach. Hopefully you can move your brake pads in your cantilevers down (toward the dropout) by 4mm?

Here's a VO blog post: http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2011/10/27-wheels-and-measuring-brake-reach.html

Conversion to 650B is more involved. It may be doable, but you'll need to measure more things and relocate your canti bosses.

Good luck! 

Shoji

[Ron Mc]

If you have the 4 mm adjustment in your brake shoes, no problem converting 27" to 700C.  Rear axle spacing (width between dropouts) is very important, though.  Most 27" bikes have 120mm rear axle, initial 700C were on 126mm spacing, and most bikes/ hubs today are on 130mm or 135mm axle spacing.  Sheldon has a good article.  http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

I'll leave the cantis to someone else.  

[hsmitham]

Hi Shoji,

That's what I thought. Moving the Canti Bosses would be out as the expense would negate the attempt at saving money. So probably 700c. Thanks,

Hugh

Sunland, CA

[Nick Payne]

On 26/03/13 12:18, hsmitham wrote:

Hey Folks,

First can a bike with 27" wheels (630mm) be converted to 700c ( 622mm) essentially 8mm difference smaller wheel diameter. What would be the best Canti breaks to use? And can a 27" wheel be converted to a 650B? There is a 46mm difference between 27" to 650B which seems too large a jump down for such a conversion. In advance thank you for any advice.

If you have modern cantilevers with an adjustment slot for the pad position, converting from 27" to 700c should be pretty easy, provided there is 4mm of adjustment available in the slot.

The difference between 27" and 650b is 23mm, not 46mm (it's the difference in radius that has to be adjusted for). If you want to continue using cantilevers, you'll have to get a framebuilder to move the studs. Or alternatively, you could get another fork designed for the 650b wheel, and use a rear disk brake with a Brake Therapy unit that mounts off the existing cantilever stud (see http://2btherapy.com/bikes/brake-therapy-conversion-kit). That way you can still convert back to 27"/700c by putting back the original fork and reverting to cantilever brakes.

[Brevivelo]

Some 27 in frames have longer reach requirement than others. Even as 27in bikes. Measure up some Pauls motolites I think they are. May work. . .

[IanA]

Why are you wanting to convert from 27" (630) to 700c (622)?  It's not a noticeable difference.  The tire/rim availability of 700c is the only real reason (and there would be a fraction more clearance with 700c), but there are various options for the old 27" (630) standard.  Jensonusa.com carry a fair selection of tires and even have a budget price wheelset for screw on freewheel that works for 126mm spacing.

I converted from 27" to 700c on a bike because someone sold me a cheap (but good) 700 wheelset, complete with tires.  I must have re-spaced the rear triangle, but the brakes needed nothing more than realigning the pads. 

I could then run either 27" or 700c within a range of 126mm to 130mm with no problem as long as the brake pads were realigned each time.

[Michael Hechmer]

My experience with 27 to 700c was yes, but not as easily as I had hoped.  When I tried to mount a pair of Paul's neo-retros I found that the slot for the shoe wasn't quite long enough, but the original dis-compes, with traditional  pivoting shoes could be positioned OK, just at a bit of an angle.  I don't see how you could get to 650b without removing the studs.  Then you could probably find a center pull which might work.  If you can live with a paint touch up, this is not too expensive a solution. 

Michael

On Monday, March 25, 2013 9:18:05 PM UTC-4, hsmitham wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-03-26 at 00:27 -0700, IanA wrote:
> Why are you wanting to convert from 27" (630) to 700c (622)? It's not
> a noticeable difference. The tire/rim availability of 700c is the
> only real reason (and there would be a fraction more clearance with
> 700c), but there are various options for the old 27" (630) standard.
> Jensonusa.com carry a fair selection of tires and even have a budget
> price wheelset for screw on freewheel that works for 126mm spacing.

There are many more tires available in 622 than 630, and there are no
high-end top quality tires in 630 any more. That's enough reason for
many.

[Ron Mc]

I agree there are many good 27" tires still made, including Pasela TG folding bead - Nashbar just got a new inventory of these.  Schwalbe Marathons and Contis at the other end of the weight and toughness spectrum.  Also agree that you can't always make the swap.  My rear centerpull, Weinmann 750 is just not quite long enough to reach a 700c rim.  

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Hugh:

 

I’ve converted a couple of ‘80s Japanese 27 inch bikes to 650B (Nishiki Century mixte here http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/7161292749/in/set-72157627582881347 , Fuji Espree here http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/5053260214/in/set-72157624973250063/ ).  The conversion made both bikes much more comfortable, and I think they look great.

 

I used the Dia Compe Model 750 brakes that Riv sells to convert the Fuji; there was still a bit of room in the slots, as they’re very long reach brakes.  They stop well, nevertheless.

 

On the mixte, I built a wheelset with Sturmey Archer drum brake hubs (on list member Bobby Birmingham’s recommendation).  They are really nice, stop beautifully, and look appropriate with an older frame , so are good candidates for conversions.  The 3 speed rear is even spaced for old frames – 118 mm, if I remember right.  I liked the result of this one so much that I’m working on another one for a charity auction, using another ‘80s mixte frame (a Fuji) and exactly the same wheelset.

 

Tom

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[RoadieRyan]

Actually Schwable, Panaracer and Continetial to name a few still make good quality 27inch tires.  I agree that you do have more options with 700c but that doesn't mean there are no good options for 27inch.  

Hugh check my posting here is you want to see what your options are today  for 27 inch wheels http://ryansrebuilds.blogspot.com/2013/02/myth-busted-there-are-very-few-options.html 

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-03-26 at 05:59 -0700, Ron Mc wrote:
> I agree there are many good 27" tires still made, including Pasela TG
> folding bead - Nashbar just got a new inventory of these. Schwalbe
> Marathons and Contis at the other end of the weight and toughness
> spectrum.

Just to be clear: I never said there were no good 27" tires. I said
there were no high-end top quality tires in that size. To me the Pasela
TG is an economy tire.

[James Warren]

Is it safe to say the following in general:

On an older 27" road frame, switching to 700C on a frame with Sidepull brakes is hassle-free, but on a frame with cantilever brakes, there will often be problems with pad alignment.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 26, 2013, at 10:28 AM, Christopher Miller Rosales <cmiller...@gmail.com> wrote:

I did a conversion on a Trek 620 a while back, the brakes couldn't make the adjustment. The REAL problem is that the brake posts are much more narrow on the 27" bikes and modern brakes are designed for the wider brakes designed after the mountain bike transition. Look more a pair of old smooth post Deore XT cantilevers, they work great.

I highly doubt they'll drop low enough for a 650b conversion though. Honestly, I'd just stick with 700c so you don't have to do a conversion, I don't see a big point in doing 650b conversions unless there is no clearance in the original frame; a bike made with 27" wheels and cantilevers is likely a touring bike and should easily swallow some 700 x 35's.

Check out this blogpost for a bit more information, not me but the same bike I worked on:

http://nihonmaru.blogspot.com/2011/08/phoenix-project-shimano-m732-cantilever.html

After getting a quality pair of 27" wheels I regret doing the conversion. I got tired of always stretching the drop out to fit the modern wheel (I'm too lazy to coldset). I have some beautiful phil wood hubs laced to 27" Super Champion rims, tubes, and wolber tires that is looking for a new owner. The bearings are smooth as butter and they roll true. Shoot me a message if you are interested!

Cheers,

Chris

Berkeley, CA

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-03-26 at 13:07 -0700, James Warren wrote:
>
> On an older 27" road frame, switching to 700C on a frame with Sidepull
> brakes is hassle-free, but on a frame with cantilever brakes, there
> will often be problems with pad alignment.

Freedom from hassles is a matter of having sufficient reach. I recall
seeing some 27" sidepull frames back in the day that had enormous
clearance, and barely made it with long reach sidepulls. You may have
issues with a frame like that.

With cantilevers, some frames and some brakes have room to move the pads
down. Others do not.

[Minh]

i will echo what steve says, measure!  i made the same assumption a few years ago (still have the bike), and did the conversion because the existing wheels were chromed steel (in poor condition), the back was no issue even with short reach side-pulls.  but the front fork had tons of tire clearance already, so switching out to even long reach side-pulls didn't work, i used a make-shift drop-bolt for a few years until i found a crazy long reach sidepull (~75mm ish) made by shimano which i'm using now.

This was not an uncommon occurence as i think campy or dia-compe made machined drop bolts a long time ago. 

[RoadieRyan]

Fair enough Steve, how would you rate the Conti Gator Skins or Schwalbe Marathons which also have  27x1 1/4 options?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-03-26 at 13:45 -0700, RoadieRyan wrote:
> Fair enough Steve, how would you rate the Conti Gator Skins or
> Schwalbe Marathons which also have 27x1 1/4 options?

I don't know Contis at all. The Marathons are a heavy duty touring
tire. Where do they sit in Schwalbe's hierarchy? Scanning their site
quickly it looks as though it's roughly comparable to the Pasela in
Panaracer's hierarchy, and not one of their high end tires.

[Kainalu]

I got flats every 1/3rd of a mile with gatorskins. Sometimes it's fun to breakdown and repair, the satisfaction of rolling again after a forced stop is great! But if you'd rather just ride your bike straight through the day go with the schwalbes.
-Kai

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-03-27 at 13:35 -0700, Kainalu wrote:
> I got flats every 1/3rd of a mile with gatorskins. Sometimes it's fun to breakdown and repair, the satisfaction of rolling again after a forced stop is great! But if you'd rather just ride your bike straight through the day go with the schwalbes.

Riding over a carpet of goatheads? A bed of nails? Otherwise, it's
hard to see how you could have so many flats... unless, of course,
you're having the same flat over and over again because you forgot to
remove the glass shard/carpet tack/whatever?

[PATRICK MOORE]

I've had similar very annoying experiences, and have always found a cause located inside the tire: a slipping rim strip; a loose wire bead; a penetrant stuck inside the casing and impossible to find just by looking at the tread.

To paraphrase Dr Johnson, such an excess of flats is not in nature. (Johnson said, "Such an excess of stupidity, Sir, is not in nature.")

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[Kainalu]

Yeah, I was exaggerating.
My point was gatorskins=bad, schwalbes=good

[Ron Mc]

Two Marathons = a kilogram.  3-1/2 folding Paselas TG = a kilogram