57 HiHo Sam

[Andrew Joseph]

Howdy all,

I plan to join a tour this fall. It’s roughly 250 miles in NW Arkansas, less than 50 miles of the route is paved. Some of the route is decently hilly and its also described as having loose, chunky rock sections.

Is the Sam the right bike for this type of trip? I can head out with minimal camping weight. If things go according to plan, we will have three days total to complete the trip.

Bottomline, I would like to either transform this bike into the machine that can handle all of this well…gearing, alt bars, racks, etc.

Or ask this group if anyone is interested in a complete swap for something more trail/touring capable like the Joe or Atlantis.

I plan to pull of the Campy group and H Plus Son (Son 28 dynamo wheelset) to sell regardless, unless someone likes the current set up and is interested. Happy to discuss further if so, just let me know sooner rather than later on that.

Best,

Drew

[John Bokman]

Drew: I can't engage you in a swap, because I've got a Sam. But I can say, I find the bike to be absolutely up to that sort of task. I just got back from a trip with really rough, chunky rocks and loose stuff. Running 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads, I found the bike to be excellent for the task. Plenty stout for me, nary any shimmy with a 30# camping load.  

Your bike is gorgeous and outfitted so well I'd hate to mess with it. Can you swing another bike?

John

[Andrew Joseph]

John,

First, thank you so much for the feedback!

No problem at all on the swap… I am very excited to hear that the Sam performed well for you.  I just needed some confirmation that Sam can get gnarly too when he wants.  I will give the BG Rock n Roads a try and report back. 

Can you share how you feel the Sam best carries a load like that (30 ish)? Any rack recommendations?

Regarding adding a bike.  I also own a Roadini and I do still plan on a cockpit swap on the Sam.  So another Riv will have to wait.  And if the brifters go, I would prefer to replace the wheelset.  

I already have an Albatross, lugged 120 stem (thanks Jim), and Silver double.  

Still need shifters, grips, levers, and would like a Quill wheelset w/dynamo.  

But if anyone has a better set up, ready to go they are willing to sell please me know. 

I can offer the Campy, wheelset, Crust Shaka, any left over parts back here to the group. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 14, 2024, at 1:28 PM, John Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Drew: I can't engage you in a swap, because I've got a Sam. But I can say, I find the bike to be absolutely up to that sort of task. I just got back from a trip with really rough, chunky rocks and loose stuff. Running 43mm Bruce Gordon Rock n Roads, I found the bike to be excellent for the task. Plenty stout for me, nary any shimmy with a 30# camping load.  

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[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, July 14, 2024 at 7:31:03 AM UTC-7 drew.jo...@gmail.com wrote:

I plan to join a tour this fall. It’s roughly 250 miles in NW Arkansas, less than 50 miles of the route is paved. Some of the route is decently hilly and its also described as having loose, chunky rock sections.

Is the Sam the right bike for this type of trip? I can head out with minimal camping weight. If things go according to plan, we will have three days total to complete the trip.

I'd happily take one of my 3 Sams on a trip like that. I've covered all sorts of terrain, from smooth pavement to crazy mountainside rocky trails, on Gravel King 48mm slicks. If I knew the ride was going to be predominantly off-road, I'd probably go for some RH knobby tires. In my experience, your half-step plus granny gearing might be more suited to a flatter, rolling-hills terrain than sharper up-and-down stuff, but everyone has their own preferences there.

I have not, however, loaded a Sam beyond a fairly full handlebar bag. I'm a big fan of carrying the weight up front, so I'd first try a pair of front panniers, and I'd try to mount them so they don't drop too low to the ground, to avoid banging on rocks on the trails. If I needed more capacity than that, I'd try a saddlebag (you have a lot more room for that than I do with my 51cm Sam / 70cm saddle height). Or possibly a basket on the front. 

Beautiful handlebar wrap !!

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Andrew Joseph]

Thank you Ted,

I have really enjoyed your Sam posts and they definitely contributed to me finally picking one up!  

Exactly the insight I was hoping for…sounds like I shouldn’t be too concerned with buying a rear rack after all?  Very helpful.

Appreciate the additional tire recommendations too.  I will start looking for front racks, and bags.

R,

Drew

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On Jul 15, 2024, at 3:24 PM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[John Bokman]

You can load Sam any way you want, in my estimation. I usually use large rear panniers and put easy-access snacks in a front bag which sits atop a Nitto f-32 rack. But I also like to load it in front panniers if my load is smaller. I prefer the handling of front panniers, but they're more fiddly to load and unload, and then there's the tendency for rock strike because they hang fairly low on my Tubus Tara lowriders. So there are tradeoffs to either method. The good news is Sam feels totaly neutral to me.

John

[Brian Forsee]

The Arkansas terrain around there is quite steep and can be pretty chunky. Based on the riding I have done in that area I would prefer a larger tire that the Sam will take, something like a 2.25-2.4. However, I think your Sam will preform just fine as long as you take your time and make good line choices on the fast and rough stuff. No need to go out and get a new bike (unless you want to, obviously). Have fun! Its beautiful down there!

Brian

[Andrew Joseph]

Thanks John and Brian,

John, a different question for you!  Considering you feel the Sam has neutral handling when loaded, what bars are you running currently?  Thank you for the rack recommendations.

Brian, that was my original thought on tire

size as well and a general concern.  RH knobby, and BG Rock n Road tires have been suggested.  But I don’t believe I can go much larger than 44 with treads? Ronnie Romance recommended the upcoming Rosē (Robusto) 45’s they are releasing late summer for the Sam.  He likes BG tires as well.  Although Ted mentioned he can run a 48 slick GK.  I appreciate the heads up on the terrain regardless, that’s very kind of you.

Best, 

Drew

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On Jul 16, 2024, at 2:39 PM, Brian Forsee <bmfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Arkansas terrain around there is quite steep and can be pretty chunky. Based on the riding I have done in that area I would prefer a larger tire that the Sam will take, something like a 2.25-2.4. However, I think your Sam will preform just fine as long as you take your time and make good line choices on the fast and rough stuff. No need to go out and get a new bike (unless you want to, obviously). Have fun! Its beautiful down there!

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[john Bokman]

I’m running heat-treated Nitto Noodles, in 44cm. Although if I were going to use the bike mostly for off-pavement rough stuff riding, I would want to swap the bars to something with some flair at the ends. Not sure what those would be. Potentially the Nitto RM-13. In fact, I would not mind some others chiming in on options for an off-pavement drop bar (I do prefer the drops).

I doubt you’d be able to get much fatter than a 44 with knobs in there. However, I’ve found it to be a pretty good size!

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[Andrew Joseph]

Thanks again John,

Nitto makes a 58 degree flare drop bar for SimWorks called the “To Smile Bar.”

Although, it’s 560 width and 31.8 clamp.

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On Jul 16, 2024, at 3:44 PM, john Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m running heat-treated Nitto Noodles, in 44cm. Although if I were going to use the bike mostly for off-pavement rough stuff riding, I would want to swap the bars to something with some flair at the ends. Not sure what those would be. Potentially the Nitto RM-13. In fact, I would not mind some others chiming in on options for an off-pavement drop bar (I do prefer the drops).

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[ascpgh]

Love to see the route you'll be riding in more detail. I cut my teeth (and shins, elbows, etc.) mountain/road/path/FS double track biking around theremin the Ozarks. To get from home in Fayetteville to the mountains we started riding out of town on the first roads that turned to dirt heading our direction, mostly toward White Rock and the Mulberry Valley. 

I lived in Hot Springs before college and worked for the Forest Service out of Jessieville one summer. All the routes and write ups of the adventure races there seem familiar from those summers. 

Once we got over 35-40 miles I started riding my RB-1 with 28s and MTB SPD pedals. It wasn't for everything but it did the rest so much better than my MTB dressed up for long miles.The peak solution came in the form of my purple '93 XO-2 with dirt drops, 26" wheels, 1.75" tires at max. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1993/pages/32.htm

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Andrew Joseph]

Andy,

It’s the NW Loop. I love every area you described by the way, the Mulberry being my favorite! 

A bit more detail on the route…Although we will likely jump in near my friends place.  Which adds some miles. 

PA is beautiful as well, have family in Sewickley. 

Best,

Drew

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On Jul 16, 2024, at 7:19 PM, ascpgh <asc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Love to see the route you'll be riding in more detail. I cut my teeth (and shins, elbows, etc.) mountain/road/path/FS double track biking around theremin the Ozarks. To get from home in Fayetteville to the mountains we started riding out of town on the first roads that turned to dirt heading our direction, mostly toward White Rock and the Mulberry Valley. 

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