Underbiking

[Piaw Na]

This Saturday I took my Roadini and went up Spring Ridge Road (Windy Hill OSP) and descended Crazy Pete's (Coal Creak OSP). https://www.strava.com/activities/9109425331

I had one of those amazing days where I was "on". I set PRs down Crazy Pete's (the last time I did it I was on a MTB with front suspension). The Roadini's 6-8 pounds lighter than my MTB, and without suspension, I felt like I could place my bike on precisely whatever lines I wanted, so much so that when I went at full speed, my friend on her dual suspension CF MTB (a Juliana Furtado) couldn't keep up downhill.

I think the drop bars on my Roadini are partly responsible --- the low position feels natural, and the modulation on the Tektro 559s are nothing short of amazing. I remembered that one of Bridgestone's mountain bikes back in the 1980s came with drop bars. I dug around and found this article about "dirt drop" bars: https://g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2008/10/drop-bar-for-mountain-biking-part-i.html

I guess since cycling is so driven by fashion, maybe some day the wheel will turn and drop bars off road will come back into fashion. My experience made me wonder if you designed the frame so that those brake pads are at the bottom of the slots on the Tektro 559s, how big a tire can you fit? I found this video on youtube where someone managed to squeeze a 2" tire on those: https://youtu.be/vGnNkQJz-Fk?t=389

Those of you with AHH or Roadinis, have you tried taking your bikes down rocky/rooty single track? Taking a MTB down those feels like driving a jeep, but riding the Roadini down one feels like you're a sushi chef carving fish with precision --- a completely different feeling.

Piaw

[Steve]

" ...maybe some day the wheel will turn and drop bars off road will come back into fashion 

Piaw, it's already happening. See: Tumbleweed, Salsa, Kona, Bearclaw, and the list goes on. 

I personally prefer a sweptback bar for the rough stuff so I can shift my weight rearward. taking some of the load off the front wheel while maintaining comfortable control of the brake levers - but I 'm an old fart. Drop bar MTBs/ATBs are definitely a thing though - I've been seeing more and more of them on my local dirt rides. It's all good!

[DavidP]

Yep, I have a drop-bar MTB that I usually run with 29x2.25 tires. In the winter it gets a 2.8 front and 2.4 rear and with that setup it's more of a basher / rock crawler and feels much slower.

This is a Jones which is designed for use with a somewhat swept back bar, but this older model has a shorter top tube that works with a drop bar. I've found the handling with a drop bar to be amazing, and the bike does pretty well on pavement while being more capable off-road than something like my Soma Wolverine with 650x48s or my Platypus with 29x2" tires (but it's no where near as nice looking as the Platy).

As far as underbiking goes, I like to see what I can get away with on most of my bikes and to appropriate and paraphrase, "if you're skilled and have good judgement and [relatively fat-ish tires], you can ride [any bike] where you shouldn't". Sometimes I end up on a trail that requires a bunch of hike-a-bike.

-Dave

[Piaw Na]

Those bars look shallow from the side but don't look so shallow front the side/front. Now I'm curious --- doesn't the flare in those drops make it harder to use the hoods as a riding position? 

[DavidP]

Sorry for the confusion - those are two different bikes with different bars and setups. The Jones (top photo) is the drop-bar MTB - it has a Ritchey Beacon XL. You are correct in noticing the Beacon XL is a shallow drop with a good amount of flare, but I find it quite usable from the hoods. As shown in the profile shot the bars are set pretty high and close to put the drops in the primary position but the hoods get a lot of use too.

The Wolverine (bottom photo) is more of a country/gravel bike; that one has Salsa Cowchipper bars and a more roadish position. I've attached a side view of the Wolverine to better see the differences in positioning.

I offered the Jones as part of the tangent about drop-bar MTBs; it's not really underbiked on most trails. The Wolverine is more relevant to your main topic of underbiking, though it is closer to a 90s MTB than a Roadini or AHH.

[R. Alexis]

Dirt Drop mountain bikes are currently at a resurgence. The number of flared drop bars is at an all time high. The fact that Nitto finally started making the the dirt drop probably cemented its return. I have several bikes with Wilderness Trail Bikes Dirt Drop bars and one with a flared Nitto  RM014 flared drop on my Schwinn Voyageur touring bike. With gravel bikes currently part of the mainstream mix flared drops have settled in. The Surly Corner Bar Is a good example of the popularity of this type of bar. https://surlybikes.com/parts/corner_bar

I have been a fan of the dirt drop bar since I first saw a 89 Trek 970 mountain bike built with them. I think they are the perfect all rounder bar. The flair gives a nice, natural hand position, multiple hand locations. The other bar bar I have been happy with are the Jones H-Bar. Got a similar Surly Open Bar mounted on my Gary Fisher Gemini tandem in the captains position. 

Reginald Alexis 

[R. Alexis]

The remake of the Wilderness Trail Bikes (WTB) Dirt Drop bar is the Nitto RM3 Dirt Drop. Wonder if some patent kept them from reintroducing them sooner that they did. 

Thanks,

Reginald Alexis

[Brady Smith]

I bought a BMC La Cabra out of the first run and set it up with Ritchey Beacon bars. My first season riding in the mountains around Salt Lake City I did not see anyone else on drop bar bikes. The second year, I noticed a few people riding gravel bikes on mellow singletrack. So far this year the number of drop bar bikes has exploded. It could just be happenstance, but there does seem to be a growing market for trail-ready bikes that are more versatile than the standard mtb. I really like being able to ride comfortably to the trail, riding some singletrack, and then transitioning back to road for the trip home. The La Cabra has been a fun bikefishing rig as well. One of these days, I'll take it bike camping. I sometimes wish I had a hardtail or FS for riding in Park City or the more technical trails near my parents in Western Colorado, but when push comes to shove I can't justify the expense as long as the La Cabra is in my stable, at least for the kind of riding I do. 

[Patrick Moore]

What size are the tires on the Roadini? I seem to recall reading that that frame can take 42s?

I don't ride fast singletrack, with the exception of a few bosque trails that are narrow due to vegetation, but they're flat; also sandy -- the sand is why I had the #1 Matthews built, to get a more or less road position, gearing, and feel with 60 mm 700C tires for the sand. And I very recently put a drop bar (Spec Hover) on the Monocog which makes it very much more pleasant to ride, but that has 3" tires.

When I took my '99 gofast fixed gear onto ditchbank roads a couple of months ago with 42s (labeled) 39s (actual) in place of the 28s, it was really fun, only that sort of tire is very limited because of our sand; works fine in cold and wetter weather, but 3 hours of sun and heat and the sand gets 2", 3", 4" deep -- no good. Even in March, still sub-freezing at night, it was touchy in places, and I was using the direct/76" and low/57" SA TF hub so I could power through the sandy bits. But the bike was so nimble and flickable compared even to the #1 Matthews, which rides nicely, and while both have drop bars, the lower bar position on the '99 did add to the agile feeling, I expect. Of course, the Matthews is 32 lb with frame bag and contents but no bottles or other luggage, while the '99 with the TF weighed 18.7 lb (18 lb even with Phil and Dingle).

But I'm tempted to build up that '70s Libertas racing frame with (true) 38s and road components and a fixed gear or at least a ss drivetrain; we'll see.

If I rode firm dirt trails, my Matthews #1 would get 44s right away; I'm still thinking of swapping the Big Ones for Snoqualmie Passes.

My last 26er conversion had drop bars and 60 mm tires and a single 64" (IIRC) fixed gear; lovely bike for pavement/sandy bosque trail transitions. I've drop-barr'd other MTBs but those were mostly ridden for commuting on pavement.

Funny: I recall trying my (drop bar'd) 1992 XO-1 off road, and finding it very unpleasant; the front end was somehow just too squirrely in even shallow sand. The later 1999 and 2003 26" wheel road customs were just as agile, more serene on pavement in the transition between straight and corner, and less nervous-making in shallow sand -- all of which supports my long-held opinion that the XO-1 was an immature design immensely surpassed by such road bikes as my 3 26" wheel customs, on one hand, and the original Atlantis on the other.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 1:40 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... When I took my '99 gofast fixed gear onto ditchbank roads a couple of months ago with 42s (labeled) 39s (actual) in place of the 28s, it was really fun, only that sort of tire is very limited because of our sand; works fine in cold and wetter weather, but 3 hours of sun and heat and the sand gets 2", 3", 4" deep -- no good. Even in March, still sub-freezing at night, it was touchy in places, and I was using the direct/76" and low/57" SA TF hub so I could power through the sandy bits. But the bike was so nimble and flickable compared even to the #1 Matthews, which rides nicely, and while both have drop bars, the lower bar position on the '99 did add to the agile feeling, I expect. Of course, the Matthews is 32 lb with frame bag and contents but no bottles or other luggage, while the '99 with the TF weighed 18.7 lb (18 lb even with Phil and Dingle).

[Patrick Moore]

[Piaw Na]

On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:40:30 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

What size are the tires on the Roadini? I seem to recall reading that that frame can take 42s?

I'm using Continental Terraspeed 40s, which actually measure 38. There's more room, but I didn't want to run at the absolute limit --- I would run a true 40mm but not a 42. 

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I ride Tektro 559s with my AHH and with my former 650b Ram.  I also think they are great brakes.  I ride on fire trails and some single track, but in no way would beat mountain bikers going down hill.  I can't say I remember letting it fly too much except down Old Springs Trail near Tennessee Valley Rd in the Marin Headlands.  Not particularly rocky or rooty, but fun going fast on a road bike.

I used Salsa Woodchippers (extreme flare) for quite a while and was able to set up nice hood and drop positions and rode several doubles with it.

Toshi

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