What type of bike would make you buy another riv

[drew]

It’s late and I’ve been inspired by lum gim fongs Willy nilly topic creation. I’ve owned 2 sams, a hunq, Clem and Atlantis. Down to just an Atlantis now and pretty happy. I’ve been thinking about what kind of model would get me to buy a new rivendell again. So I pose the same question to you all. (Let’s eliminate the things they won’t do, like low trail and disc brakes)

For me, it’d be a Roadini with clearances for
2.1 tires or a canti cheviot.

[Justin, Oakland]

Another run of the Rosco Bubbe Mountain (Maybe a) Mixte.

-J

[Tim]

I've got a Hilsen, Hunq, Roadeo, Hubbuh and wife has a Sam. I NEED an Atlantis. I'll probably end up losing the Roadeo for one eventually.

[RJM]

I have two.

First is a Legolas cyclocross bike. I’ve started racing cross this year for fun and found out it is an awesome good time. A Legolas I would buy today, right now.

Second is a mountain mixte. I’d even take a cheviot with v brakes but I’m not sure if the tubes would be stout enough for what I want to load up and ride. Honestly, I’m seriously thinking about picking up a cheviot or an Appaloosa soon though.

[Kevin Lindsey]

I have two and a half (a Bleriot, a Hunq, and a Homer on order - three and a half if you include my wife's Hilsen), but would sorely tempted by a 700c All Rounder if such ever became available.

Kevin Lindsey

Alexandria, VA

[chris feczko]

Personally I’ve been dreaming of a 650b all rounder.

Chris
Sunnyside, ny

[Mark in Beacon]

Unless you ride bigger than 58cm, the AHH is a 650b all rounder.

[Ken Yokanovich]

 In the stable have: Custom- 700c all-rounder, Custom Road, Atlantis, HubbuHubbuH, and a custom Curt Goodrich Rohloff that emulates the all-rounder.

I was just working in my home bike shop doing some cleaning and organizing. Came across a completed Rivendell Custom order form, with check attached!  What I was looking for was a combination of the Roadeo and my beloved departed Quickbeam.  Something with clearance for about a 700x33-35 tire with fender, single speed, lighter weight tubing. I know it's wrong to design a bike around a specific part; but I have 2 pair of the old DiaCompe NGC450 center-pull brakes NOS that I would love to use for braze-on.  I'm in love with the custom head lugs, so would have held out for the custom.  Fortunately; just got word that my Frank Jones has shipped and should arrive next week, along with a Cheviot for my daughter.

Thinking I should be busy for a while; but seem to always have a severe case of N+1

[Mark in Beacon]

I feel like the liine up is pretty solid, and Rivendells have a good deal of overlap. If it were in my budget, I would have gotten a tandem. I would love to see a kid-specific Rivendell. I think there were the beginnings of such a project, but it quickly morphed into something else. I could be mistaken. I know there are many reasons this would not be a great idea. And my kid is starting to get into regular 26" mountain bike size (women's style, found a cool old GT mixte) so I am heading out of that demographic and getting ready to sell his fancy Islabike.

But it's kinda like one day some years ago my old racing club  (about the oldest in the country) looked around and saw that there was no new blood. So they (re) started a junior team, with coaches and mentors. One of my racing buddies was the coach for a while, he loved it.  It would be nice to have a bicycle option for kids that did not include suspension, aluminum, etc., but did include all the Riv values.  I'm thinking tig welded in three wheel sizes: 20" (new folder standard), 24", and maybe 26", basic one color (red?). Frames or dealer builds only, so no stocking of 20" or 24" or kid sized cranks (maybe hook up with Mark at Bikesmith in some way for those). Or, as I've said before, do a collaboration like the Frank Jones. Maybe with a company like Islabike, to counter their weird foray into mini carbon racers.

I know the last thing Rivendell needs is a project like this, but in a better world, this would be a no-brainer.

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 3:21:26 AM UTC-5, drew wrote:

[Jeff Lesperance]

After my bike stable grew to a state where there were too many bikes that went entirely unridden, I've been on a mission to pare down to the least number of bikes to satisfy a majority of my cycling interests and not feel like too many of my bikes are serving a "I need stuff" need. I'm currently at:

1. Rivendell Rosco Bubbe v2 - semi-upright cruiser - which I've nearly stopped riding and should be voted out of the stable

2. All City Space Horse Disc - all arounder, replaced Sam Hillborne in the interest of similar Sam capabilities with disc brakes

3. Surly Troll - rougher stuff riding/touring when underbiking the Space Horse is less desirable

4. Bike Friday Family Tandem - for enjoying cycling with my kids

(The stable did include Sam, AHH, and Romulus at one point in time)

I would immediately replace #2 and #3 with a Riv if a verboten feature were made an option on Sam, Appa, Atlantis, or Hunq.

The possible gap in my bike collection otherwise could possibly be a go-fast type of steed, replacing the cruiser slot, though I've had a few bikes that have fit this mold over the years and found them to get only a small percentage of riding time. That said, I should probably consider a Roadini - that's the most likely Riv addition if nothing else changes in their lineup. 

-Jeff

Silver Spring, MD

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[Surlyprof]

Without a doubt, a 650b Appaloosa. If I won the lottery tomorrow, Riv would receive an order for a 650b Hunq and a grilver Roadini. Even though that would probably deem my 56 canti-Hillborne obsolete, I probably wouldn’t give it up. There’s just something about a Hillborne...

John

[Tim Gavin]

RJM- you can still order a Legolas. But I think at custom pricing.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Will]

I'd like a modified Roadeo or Legolas style frame (want cantis) with clearance for 45mm tires with fenders. I'd be happy with Taiwan production. I've seen Hillbournes. They are excellent frames. So am not tied to MUSA. I do want lugs though. Something about a lugged bike... Nobody does them as well. Riv's lugged bikes are very special and worth the upgrade $$$$. 
 
I have an Toyo Atlantis (53cm takes 46mm tires with huge fenders) and love it, so I am not anxious. :-)

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 2:21:26 AM UTC-6, drew wrote:

[Clayton]

My Atlantis is my only 'car'. I do everything on it. An off road "Atlantis" with room for 2.5" or larger tires and disc brakes, would be great. I am looking at Crust Bikes for my next bike, when my Atlantis dies.  

Clayton B.

#DirtDance

 

[Eric Daume]

Jeff,

Aside from the discs, how does the Space Horse compare to the Sam?

Thanks,

Eric

With no Rivs in the stable at all

[Ann L]

If RBW made a Rodeo in my size, I probably would have ordered one a long time ago.  

[Jonathan D.]

A disc bike designed around 650B, maybe like the AHH and made in Taiwan. I would like one disc bike for the raining Pacific Northwest. I am considering the Black Mountain Cycles Road Plus.

[Ray Varella]

Something like a Legolas that takes up to 50mm 650B tires

But honestly, the HHH tandem is one of the best bikes I’ve ever owned.

Ray

[Patrick Moore]

Light-tubed, no-holds-barred roadie bike at the level of the Roadeo, with Roadeo geometry, with 120 mm OL rear spacing (or less!), and more-than-Campy-1010 rear dropouts or slanted track ends. I'd pay an additional $500 if it was built around 26" wheels.

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Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Patrick Moore]

Ken: Photos of your customs, please.

Thanks.

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[Joe Bernard]

This question seems aimed at designing a bike Riv doesn't make yet, but I can't think of one I'd need they don't already do. I've owned Romulus, Ram, AHH, Saluki, Bleriot, Appaloosa, Clem H, Clem L (wow that's a long list!) and currently a 2-speed Cheviot.

My newest latest dream Riv I'd do if I had the cash is to see if they'd still build me a Bombadil. I've always had a fascination for that beautiful lugged beast even though I haven't mountain biked in about 15 years. I just moved near a thing called a "bike park", but don't really have a dirt bike good for it. I'll bet a Bombadil would be great there.

[Jeff Lesperance]

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff,

Aside from the discs, how does the Space Horse compare to the Sam?

I'm not a good student of how and why all of the possible bike geometry variables can inform actual and perceived comfort and performance on a bike, but there's something about the Sam (I think mine was second gen, when they still came in 60cm sizing) in how it felt and rode that I've not felt repeated on any other bike I've owned, including the other Riv's - there was some magic in it for me, my size and shape, and athletic capabilities. 

That said, the Space Horse is a stellar bike that has made me happy over many miles over various distances and terrain. It rides well unloaded and under load, and forgives long days under a exuberant or tired rider. It's a great bike, but it's lacking that Sam Hillborne magic, that you would never accuse it of lacking, if you'd not synced up with a Sam like I did. I've no regrets, but I'd also happily test a disc-braked Sam if it ever came into existence. 

 

[Justin August]

It seems as if several people have said they would basically buy a version of a Riv that exists BUT WITH X. As long as that X isn’t disc brakes then you can do it. Just pay for a custom and keep them in cash flow!

-J

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[Jonathan D.]

I second a disc braked Sam.

[RJM]

Thanks Tim, 

Yeah, I may eventually do that but I think if I were to go custom I would talk myself into a sweet mountain mixte. A few years ago there was a blug article (I think it was even before the blug was a thing) about a mountain mixte that was brown and cream in color. Great lugs on that bike. That bike with clearance for a 2.2 knobby and stout enough tubes in the right places to take the abuse of a rooty and rocky trail would be sweet. I'd get it in purple too. 

[Lum Gim Fong]

Canti, 650b Roadeo

[Joe Bernard]

..but if I WAS going to design a bike park Bomba I could actually afford, it would be a Hunqadiscer: a semi-TIGed Hunqapillar-type frame with disc brakes at a Clem/Roadini price point. I think Grant would sell a stack of those right away.

Joe "yes I would buy one" Bernard

[Steven Sweedler]

On my last small order I asked for  26” canti braked bike for 2.2” tires kind of like the early All Rounders (without the price of a custom), I have a 96 canti custom road, designed for 28 w/ fenders, I run it with 32s w/out, also have a 2000 AR, 700 x 44s, 50s are way too tight but  the wheel will spin. Steve

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 8:06 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

..but if I WAS going to design a bike park Bomba I could actually afford, it would be a Hunqadiscer: a semi-TIGed Hunqapillar-type frame with disc brakes at a Clem/Roadini price point. I think Grant would sell a stack of those right away.

Joe "yes I would buy one" Bernard

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[John M]

I remember that custom mountain mixte and it haunts me!

Here's a pic and a link to the bike on blug.

But, for me it would be Legolas.  Just don't have the money.

[tc]

I like the wide-tire, canti, lugged, mountain mixte idea.  Replace hearts on lugs with something else.

[Joe Bernard]

I love the hearts!

[Jeremy Till]

Now that Homers are made to order and can do custom requests, I can pretty much do it (except for the $$). It'd be a Homer with canti posts and (if I can get them to do it) a threadless fork, painted grilver.

[Melanie]

I'm with Lum on a 650B Roadeo, but give me V brakes, and in dark Burgundy, please.

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 1:41:39 PM UTC-5, Lum Gim Fong wrote:

Canti, 650b Roadeo

[Bob B]

I want a [rosco] mountain mixte in my size to be my ultimate utilitarian city bike that I can ride far and load up and camp with (I was in between sizes at 89.5pbh with short arms, so, like, a 58cm with no more than 60cm virtual top tube). I'd junk it up visually but in a way I like (call it "beausage") and have it secretly be the smoothest most satisfying ride. And I see the tigs as an asset in NYC -- can't have a dandy-looking bike in this city.

[Dave Small]

A Roadeo made in Taiwan, priced like a Sam or Cheviot. Or a lugged Roadini.  

[Bill Lindsay]

The difference between a Samuel Hillborne and a hypothetical lugged Roadini is what? Maybe former to eight ounces in the scale? Do a light build on a Sam and Bob’s your uncle.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca.

[LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com]

I've an Atlantis and am very pleased with that, however... I really enjoy fixed riding, on and off road. I'd be hard-pressed to turn down a fixed-gear specific (front brake only), wide-tire clearance Riv frame. Kind of like a quickbeam, I suppose...

[Joe Bernard]

Wouldn't that be a Frank Jones Sr?

[Jonathan D.]

I would love a cargo/family hauler. Something like a Yuba crossed with a Clem L. I have turned my Joe into a similar bike.

[Tim D]

I've been envisioning a Custom lately. 

It'd basically be a Rambouillet/Roadeo with room for 700cx32 tires *with* fenders, and AHH-style braze-ons for front and rear Mark's racks.

[Charlie R]

A Mountain Mixte with room for wide tires (3 inches) and 26 inch wheels in the smaller sizes. (I'm short and old.)

The North American Handmade Bicycle Show is 20 miles away from me in a few weeks and I'm really thinking about attending and talking to builders about such a bike.

Charlie in Connecticut who currently rides a Yves Gomez but wants much wider tires.

[Charlie R]

Right On!!!!!!!!!!!   Better description than my recent post.  I have the damn hearts on my Gomez and Wilbury................

Charlie

[nash...@gmail.com]

Something like a hunq but with the price point of a clem. That would do it for me.

[Sky Coulter]

Isn’t that the clem?

Sky in new west

> On Feb 3, 2018, at 5:11 PM, nash...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Something like a hunq but with the price point of a clem. That would do it for me.
>

[Linda G]

A Cheviot with v-brakes as several have already mentioned. And in that nice dark green they once came in. Sidepulls just don't work for me in the wet winters here.

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Wish list:

1. Clem style modular bakfiets attachment. Drop your fork, plug in your cargo front end w/ 20" wheel & front brake cable ready to go.... Room for 2.5" tires.

2. 650b (26 for smalls) Homer on steroids with light tubing, canti, room for 2.0's & fenders I'd love a 63cm c-t level top tube size. Production MUSA,no custom wait, pre order is fine.

3. Replacement forks!! 1" forks are rare as hens teeth. I'd happily pay $250.

4. Limited edition Charlie Cunningham inspired something....

5. Way too niche but I'll put it here anyway. Raleigh DL-1/Tourist geometry with modern everything else.

Alex Wirth
Rochester, NY

[Mark in Beacon]

This all reminds me of a story my dear old uncle Lewy used to regale me with when I was a lad.* The story tells of a prince who wants to marry a princess, but is having difficulty finding a suitable wife. Something is always wrong with those he meets, and he cannot be certain they are real princesses because they have bad table manners or they are too fat or thin or not beautiful. One stormy night a young woman drenched with rain seeks shelter in the prince's castle. She claims to be a princess, so the prince's mother decides to test their unexpected, unwitting guest by placing a pea in the bed she is offered for the night, covered by 20 mattresses and 20 feather-beds. In the morning, the guest tells her hosts that she endured a sleepless night, kept awake by something hard in the bed that she is certain has bruised her. The prince rejoices. Only a real princess would have the sensitivity to feel a pea through such a quantity of bedding, so the two are married. They lived happily ever after, and had many princes and princesses (who all grew up to be RBW Owners Bunch forum members;^)

The story ends with the pea being placed in a museum, where according to the storyteller it can still be seen today, unless someone has removed it.

*most of the words after the asterisk are not mine (or uncle Lewy's)

[Justin August]

Does Argo Cargo bike not fit your #1?

https://argobikes.com

-J

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[drew]

+1 on forks. I’d buy an Atlantis or hunq fork immediately and have someone braze disc tabs on it right away. I know it’s weird, but I want a canti fork and a disc fork.
(Also, if anyone has any recommendations for a custom builder who can make a 1in threaded disc fork that is otherwise identical to an Atlantis fork, please let me know)

[John G.]

Alex wins this thread, IMHO.

Me? I could go for a Roadeo with the clearance of the Atlantis. But I guess the Legolas sorta covers that...

[Don Compton]

I would really like a 60cm Saluki with Roadeo/Legolas tubing.

[Edwin W]

Alex’s #2.

Justin: I never saw the Argo. That’s cool. I think I am out of the box bike range now, the single purpose-ness of the box bike is why I sold mine.

Edwin

[nash...@gmail.com]

No, they are pretty different.

[Conway Bennett]

If someone wants a Hunqapillar I have one from a 59cm. How's $300 shipped?

Captain Conway,
www.ChicaGoByBoat.com
@svnightswimming

[nash...@gmail.com]

Seriously? Yeah, I will buy that right now.

[Joe Bernard]

What does "one from a 59cm" mean? I can't imagine you're really selling a Hunq frame/fork for $300.

[Conway Bennett]

FORK from a 59 cm Hunqapillar.  Sorry about that.

Fair winds,

Captain Conway Bennett
239.877.4119

On Feb 4, 2018 4:37 PM, "Joe Bernard" <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

What does "one from a 59cm" mean? I can't imagine you're really selling a Hunq frame/fork for $300.

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[nash...@gmail.com]

Haha! You got me!

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Late to the party but I’ll play along:
...Clearly dreaming up a custom:
Fully lugged, diagatube with asymmetrical tentacle diagastays, clearance for 29x2.5”-3”or 26”/650b fatties, rear facing “track-outs” plus der. hanger(sloped like Simplebeam Jones Sr.), 135mm rear offset by 17.5mm with matching front. Canti or v-brake with ultrawide noodle/straddle.

It’s a Pugsapillar Plus!

Okay, nix the Pugesque offset and full fat fantasies... wont happen without going disc unless I could track down some old large marge rims or something.

But if it still had at minimum Clem clearance of 2.5(and maybe up to 3”) and matching 135mm front so I could have singlespeed fixed/free and freehub clustered wheels to flip front to back at leisure it might truly be my one bike to rule them all and allow lots of future tinkering and build changes with just two wheels and better fit an idealistic minimalist lifestyle.... just need to store a derailer and shifting bits when the desire strikes to go fixed.

Brian Cole

[anonomous]

My dream Rivendell would be any of their lineup that stripped off all the expensive aesthetic luxuries, while preserving all the function. Same tubes, same geometry, same magical ride. NO lugs, fancy paint, or complex decals. Just Tig welded and powdercoated a single color.

Imagine all the camping function of an Atlantis, for like $800, of which Riv got to keep 20% instead of 5% or whatever their margins are now. In terms of geo and function Rivendell are literally decades ahead of their time. The bikes are incredibly desirable to young riders. But, frustratingly, their prices are jacked up sky high via a frankly bizarre fixation on superficial luxury, and we just can't afford them! Like, OK, custom made investment-cast lugs are nice looking, but they add zero function to the bike while costing a fortune. Meanwhile the company is constantly on the brink of bankruptcy, presumably due to low volume and low margins.

Maybe you think that all the superficial luxuries are part of Rivendell's core brand. Maybe! But for me the real interest is the incredibly refined and optimized geometry and construction. Lugs aren't worth anything to me, personally.

[Joe Bernard]

I think you're in the minority about lugs and aesthetics re: Rivendell. Very few buyers are looking for a plain TIG-ed Riv with powdercoat, and I seriously doubt they could sell them complete for $800 anyway.

[RJM]

I don't think 800 bucks is reasonable for a fully built up steel bike outfitted for camping. You could get the Clem Smith for 1600 right now, and it is a swell deal and I would say it could be sold for more. I almost picked one up but I appreciate the aesthetic appeal of lugs enough to have ponied up the cash for an Appaloosa instead.

the one thing I will say though, after having several rivs (but never a custom) at different price points....they all ride like quality rides. You can rest assured that the Roadini vs. Roadeo argument is an argument between two totally functional bikes with swell riding qualities.

[islaysteve]

I see where anonomous is coming from and think (he) has a point.  There is/would be/should be a market for the type of bike he describes:  Riv geometry, ride and utility without the lugs, paint, etc.  But doesn't this already exist?  Check out Soma, frames for under $800.  I'm assuming the $800 reference in the post was for frame only.  If for a whole bike, that's a bit more of a challenge.  And what of the Bleriot?  It went for $750 not so long ago, fully lugged, beautiful paint and extensive graphics.  I'm just putting out some of my observations, not saying what Riv should do.  Just saying that it's a direction they could go, with a lower entry level and perhaps a different series name.  And after all, Grant did design the Soma San Marcos. 

[Joe Bernard]

Clem frames are only $900 after the recent price bump. I think that guy/gal is asking for a complete $800 Riv. Ain't happnin.

[Bill Lindsay]

I agree with islaysteve's interpretation that 'anonomous' wants an Atlantis clone frameset for $800.  I agree with that sentiment that it is possible.  The existence proof of that possibility is the Black Mountain Road framset for $595 is the functional equivalent of a $2600 Roadeo.  Rivendell could absolutely clone the Atlantis in a Roadini-like tigged configuration.  They have everything they need to do that.  They'd just have to decide to do it and prioritize it over their other things.  

I personally think that Rivs current inventory of cantilever Sam Hillbornes are perfectly capable road-touring bikes.  If you want an Atlantis at half the price, build up a stout Hillborne.  If you want a Hilsen at half the price, build up a light Hillborne.  That's my opinion. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

The numbers needed to make an $800 bike work are leagues different from Riv's current business model.

Below a certain dollar amount people tend to lose an appreciation for what makes a good bike good. Compound that with the fact that the $500-$800 bike market is beyond crowded. At best it would add complexity to their operations, would definitely be a cash flow suck and at worst put them out of business.

[Steve Palincsar]

Some people are of the opinion that Surly has already done that, with
the LHT frame, and from what I can tell at a good bit less money than
$800.  I think the proposition that the LHT is an Atlantis clone is
debatable to dubious, but...

On 02/05/2018 12:23 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
> I agree with islaysteve's interpretation that 'anonomous' wants an
> Atlantis clone frameset for $800.  I agree with that sentiment that it
> is possible.  The existence proof of that possibility is the Black
> Mountain Road framset for $595 is the functional equivalent of a $2600
> Roadeo.  Rivendell could absolutely clone the Atlantis in a
> Roadini-like tigged configuration.  They have everything they need to
> do that.  They'd just have to decide to do it and prioritize it over
> their other things.
>

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[Chris Lampe 2]

Speaking to my own particulars, I haven't found what anonymous is describing.  I want a bike with a traditional diamond frame, a low bottom bracket, long'ish chainstays, clearance for 2.25" tires, 700c/29'er wheels, canti-posts, stout tubing and the real kicker for me, an ETT that is long enough for me to have a comfortable reach (ie, 60cm +).  The Hunqapillar is the only Riv model that might have a long enough ETT.  I don't really know because there seems to be so much confusion on whether the geometry specs that Riv puts out are accurate.  The Clem is close but in my size (52) it would require a new set of wheels, rather than letting me use the really nice Rich Lesnik wheels I already have.  

I'm also open to the same bike with 26" wheels and the LHT comes close but it's 57cm ETT rules it out for me.  

Really, the only bike I've found on the market that meets all of my criteria is the Hunqapillar but a new one is just too expensive. Hopefully I'll be able to someday pick one up on the used market.  

[Bill Lindsay]

Yes, some regard the LHT as the functional equivalent to the Atlantis, insofar they can both be ridden across country with a full touring load.  I ride a 58cm 700c Atlantis, and if I wanted to acquire it's functional equivalent for a lot less money, I would definitely consider an LHT.  

Bike A:  80mm drop.  72/72 angles.  58.5cm TT.  45mm rake.  61cm FC.  47cm CS.  60cm stack 39cm reach

Bike B:  78mm drop.  72/72.5 angles.  58.6cm TT.  45mm rake.  46cm CS.  60.6cm* stack 39.4cm reach  

Bike A is a 58cm Atlantis and Bike B is a 58cm 700c LHT.  I'd consider that close enough to enjoy an epic cycling experience.  If I'm buying a bike to savor the bike itself then maybe I'd be bored and not-in-love with an LHT, but if I'm buying a bike as a tool to enable a memorable cycling experience, then I have no doubts I could have that experience on an LHT if I needed to save a couple thousand dollars.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

*I'm surprised that the stack on the LHT is higher.  I would have expected it to be lower.  

[Philip Williamson]

Frank Jones Sr in a 61cm size? 

Philip

Santa Rosa, CA

[Bob B]

That's a really good point, Bill and Steve. I'd still like to see Riv to expand their low end taiwan made partially-tigged simple paint job framesets. For instance, Surly's not making (and I cant really imagine them making) a partially tigged rosco-esque mountain mixte, or anything close to a Clem. 

I empathize with the partially tigged thing on another level because I'd love to use my Riv (hunq) as my primary city commuting bike, but I've found that I'm too nervous locking it outside on an errand. I can see the appeal of a great frame that doesn't catch anyone's eye...

Bob B.

Brooklyn, NY

[Kieran J]

If I could choose and I had the money, it'd be a 67cm single TT AHH with canti posts.
Still looking for a used 67 STT y'all! :-P

KJ

[Will]

I think you miss the point of Rivendell.

It's not about providing a cheap bike with good geometry.

It about a tradition of function + beauty.

You pay for excellence.

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 10:02:07 AM UTC-6, anonomous wrote:

[nash...@gmail.com]

Seems that some people won't.

[Patrick Moore]

Lugs and retro aesthetics have always been a part of Rivendell's purpose. But I do agree that, even more important is the signature ride. But Will is right; you buy Rivendell, you buy the package.

Patrick "non-anonymous" Moore, who thinks posters ought to include their names.

 

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 10:02:07 AM UTC-6, anonomous wrote:

...

[lconley]

A fenderless, rackless lugged road frame. I have lots of bikes with fenders and racks and lights with all sorts of braze-ons. What I want is a "road racing" look frame, as-in no eyelets on the front or rear dropouts or forks or seatstays, no kickstand plate. Everything else can be the same - long chainstays, long top tube, relaxed geometry, 700c x 38 or 44, etc. Centerpulls or cantilevers would be ok as long as the cable stop and posts were brazed onto the seatstays and forks. Half chromed forks and seatstays would be wonderful. Just a clean road bike that rides like a Riv. Not very likely. Not even sure that it could happen on a custom. Basically, I want a fatter tired, higher handlebar (still drops) cross between my old Masi and my Paramount.

Laing

Cocoa, FL

[Steve Palincsar]

Perhaps you could get a Roadeo and invite Patrick Moore to come visit you in Florida and tell him to bring his Dremel.  He can remove those unsightly fender eyelets for you, having had practice at this...

Per the Riv web site:

The Roadeo is our answer to speedy carbon road bikes that cost the same or more, last one-fifth as long or less, and aren't as safe, comfortable, versatile or good-looking.

It's the bike to get for speedy riding without racks and bags, except for maybe a seat or bar bag. Basically, it's not a "light touring" bike, or anything of the sort. It's a bike for swift solo rides and fast club rides, where riding is the thing, as opposed to doing something on your bike.

Sure sounds like exactly what you're describing, except for the eyelets.

[Bill Lindsay]

A Roadeo doesn't take 38mm or 44mm tires.  It sounds like Laing needs something more like an A. Homer Hilsen with its unsightly versatility stripped away.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Steve Palincsar]

There's little in the way of unsightly versatility our Mighty Patrick of the Moore can't strip away...   :-)

[Patrick Moore]

Damned right!

Patrick Moore, with his little Dremel, his little hacksaw, his little bastard file, and his little grinding wheel, in ABQ, NM

But Laing, leaving these philistines aside, I have to agree with you -- a roady Riv with the practicality left to other bikes. After all, the principal reason for riding a bike is FUN and practicality is a very distant second value; saving the earth is an even more distant 3d -- though practical and earth friendly are hardly to be sneered at. But FUN is the summum bonum of bike riding, unless you do it because you can't afford a car and have no bus routes; and if you are that sort, you won't be buying a Riv, let me tell you. 

But this gofast: I have found in the almost 20 years of ownership that this stripped down bike delivers hugely on fun and, I was thinking to myself today, if I had to choose just 1 bike, it might just be this one.

I just had a wonderful early afternoon ride on my '99 Joe custom 76" fixie -- Grant agreed to build it with just 1 set of cage bosses and no housing stops a-tall, and of course no rd hangar; saved me quite a bit of Dremeling. 76" gear; windy today, and for some reason, this bike just feels easier to pedal than any of my others, including the '03 Curt which is almost identical, but which is built with all the fenders and lights and racks and such doodads.

Chauncey is to come on Sat and take the '99 away for longer dropouts and (ahem) that second set of cage bosses for the seat tube. Joe used Riv's then-model "short horizontals" which required me quite a bit of elbow grease with a large rattail file to accommodate a 46 X 15 and a bit of chain stretch. Fortunately, a very little dropout removal goes a heckofa long way in chain takeup.

[Kainalu V.]

Bikes are like shoes, I think they're great and I'd like to have to ones I like. I'm lucky I wear a 16 or I'd have way too many shoes. Same is true with bikes, I'm lucky I take a size huge. So, the question of what bike would make me buy another? Easy answer, any bike that fits! Since they're one of the very few companies that care enough to make them big, I'll keep watching and wanting. With a Clem H and a Rosco Bubbe mountain step through in the garage and a tandem on the way, I'd make room for a big roadini/roadeo/frank jones in a second. Anybody have a 72 Homer for sale?
-Kai
BK NY

[Mark in Beacon]

Wow. I just do not get that. Even on my bikes that I don't ever plan to run with fenders, I like having drop outs that permit them--and who knows, one day I might. I think it makes the bike more comely overall, and plenty racey without being a prima donna. (Roadeo does not have a kickstand plate, mate.) My 1960s and 70s racing bicycles (Louison Bobet and Ron Kitching) have fender eyelets, long chainstays, relaxed geometry and take 35mm tires. I have a 70s sport frame that takes a 42. I see no point in wider 700c tires, as I believe it starts to negatively impact handling. I think a Rodeo or Legolas without fender eyelets is probably more blasphemous than a disc'd Rivendell;^) I mean really now.

Fausto Coppi's Bianchi, a 1960s Legnano and my early 1980s ZebraKenko with 35s (could probably go 38). Tell me those little fenderoo braze ons aren't sexy.

[Steven Sweedler]

I couldn’t agree more with Mark, and I have read Grant’s thoughts on this many times, the move to have dropouts with eyelets is one he never agreed with. It seems to me that this thread has been suggesting many bikes that are anti-Riv. 

Steve 

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/05/2018 10:57 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

Damned right!

Patrick Moore, with his little Dremel, his little hacksaw, his little bastard file, and his little grinding wheel, in ABQ, NM

The spirit that sacked Rome is hardly fazed by the likes of a fender eyelet...

But Laing, leaving these philistines aside, I have to agree with you -- a roady Riv with the practicality left to other bikes. After all, the principal reason for riding a bike is FUN and practicality is a very distant second value; saving the earth is an even more distant 3d -- though practical and earth friendly are hardly to be sneered at. But FUN is the summum bonum of bike riding, unless you do it because you can't afford a car and have no bus routes; and if you are that sort, you won't be buying a Riv, let me tell you.

But how much fun is a soaking wet a$$?

[lconley]

I don't think Rivendell will do no fender eyelets, even on a custom, judging by the custom order form.

In Florida, the rain usually comes down so hard that you are soaked to the skin in less than a minute, fenders or not - twenty minutes later you can be completely dry because the rain has gone and it insanely hot again (hooray for MUSA shorts). The rain in Seattle is completely different - fenders there make a lot more difference. I do have multiple other Rivs with fenders.

I just got the shipping notice for the Frank Jones, Sr. - time to finish my 1st attempt at Harlequin bar tape. I have laced the polished rims to the Hi-Lo Campy hubs that have been converted to track axles with nuts. 38mm Compass tan Barlow Pass EL tires have been mounted. The biggest question is how many of my bikes will be stripped of their bottom brackets trying to find the correct width for the FJ Jr.

Laing

Cocoa, FL

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'm pretty satisfied with my 60cm Canti-Saluki, paired with a Jones Plus I officially have more bike capability than I have time in the week to thoroughly enjoy - though I try valiantly!

But in the spirit of the original question... The Jones fills the place in my stable for dedicated singletrack and bikepacking (fantasies) so I won't as to the chorus of an even rougher stuff, disc'd Riv.

However I'd trade in my Saluki for one with the following tweaks (in order of priority);

0. Stable, integrated double kick stand provision... That doesn't require warnings about destroying my chainstays.
1. Rivendell sticker/headbadge
2. 2-3cm less TT to allow for +10-20mm stem length, mostly aesthetics but I do think I'd like a slightly shorter reach for drop bars than I can do now without skying the bars. Oh and I don't want to loose anything in the overlap so figure that out to!
3. +10mm clearance at the rear stays and fork crown to make for generous (instead of adequate) 42mm tire clearance with fenders.
4. I want my original Toyo fork back, it had a beautiful graceful taper and finer dropouts that is far more elegant than the replacement Waterford fork I have now, oh and I'd put the SON connector-less dropout.
4. Speaking of dropouts... TA front and back. I don't care that canti brakes don't need it, I love the TA front on my Jones, it's a better connection. I guess I'd also be looking for someone to make non-disc TA hubs to. I'd use the Jones hex head flush TA skewers...
5. Integrated Dyno rear light wired into a seat stay, internal wire run and some sort of braze on light mount - fender mount looks better but means you can't take fenders off without some extra step even if that step is just a quick disconnect you need to mount a battery light.
6. Some kind of quick(er) release for fenders, so the front fender attachment shouldn't require changes in the front rack attachment.
7. Common tooling - not unachievable even on my current frame but I'd be intrigued if this was a selling point of a Riv 'complete'... Minimize the number of different fastener tools required to do Trailside service/repair.

Hmmm, there's probably more but this is enough. Definitely polishing the apple... My Saluki is pretty great.

Tony

[Mark in Beacon]

Fenders will not protect you from getting wet in the rain, no matter where you live. They do prevent road schmutz (and excess water in shorter rides in non-monsoon conditions) from being deposited all over your shoes, the bottom portion of your legs, your back, your drivetrain, and any pals that might be riding behind you. Also, in the age of bikeflights, who is to say your machine will spend its whole life in the Sunshine State? 

[Howard Ramsay]

Ann, consider messaging Rivendell and discuss a custom build using the Roadeo geometry and tubing specifications. You can request the Roadeo lugs, paint, decals, and head tube badge should you desire. It will be a little more expensive than the standard size Roadeos, but it will be a custom built Roadeo just for you. Uniquely yours, and a perfect fit. We only live once. Another option is a Roadini painted to your liking. The custom paint is $300 and worth every penny. All the best to you!

On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 11:02:36 AM UTC-6, Ann L wrote:

If RBW made a Rodeo in my size, I probably would have ordered one a long time ago.  

[PG]

My 54 San Marcos is the best handling bike I've ever owned.

I wish Riv would make that frame with a few more Riv touches...a little more tire clearance, a nicer bend to the fork, maybe "softer" frame tubing with more "plane."

[lconley]

I have 22 bicycles, 9 of them Rivs (including FJ Jr). many of them have fenders. I spent ~21 months in the last two years in Seattle. I had several different bikes in Seattle at different times (including a fendered, belt drive, disc-braked, IGH Scott SUB 10 and a LWB Riv Protopaloosa). If you have a serious bike hoarding disease, they don't all need to have fenders.

Laing

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 8:51:54 AM UTC-7, lconley wrote:

I have 22 bicycles, 9 of them Rivs ...

  

Nothing to add to the main disucssion, but DAMN.  I thought I was the worst one here!   You're my new hero!  (Really) 

[Patrick Moore]

C'mon! This is New Mexico! Besides, I have another Riv with fenders.

[Patrick Moore]

Behold the anti-Riv Rivendell. As I said, it may just be my favorite of the 5 I've owned.

Patrick "no damned braze ons at all" Moore

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 1:41 AM, Steven Sweedler <swee...@gmail.com> wrote:

I couldn’t agree more with Mark, and I have read Grant’s thoughts on this many times, the move to have dropouts with eyelets is one he never agreed with. It seems to me that this thread has been suggesting many bikes that are anti-Riv. 

Steve 

On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 6:44 AM 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Wow. I just do not get that. Even on my bikes that I don't ever plan to run with fenders, I like having drop outs that permit them--and who knows, one day I might. I think it makes the bike more comely overall, and plenty racey without being a prima donna. (Roadeo does not have a kickstand plate, mate.) My 1960s and 70s racing bicycles (Louison Bobet and Ron Kitching) have fender eyelets, long chainstays, relaxed geometry and take 35mm tires. I have a 70s sport frame that takes a 42. I see no point in wider 700c tires, as I believe it starts to negatively impact handling. I think a Rodeo or Legolas without fender eyelets is probably more blasphemous than a disc'd Rivendell;^) I mean really now.

Fausto Coppi's Bianchi, a 1960s Legnano and my early 1980s ZebraKenko with 35s (could probably go 38). Tell me those little fenderoo braze ons aren't sexy.

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 4:59:15 PM UTC-5, lconley wrote:

A fenderless, rackless lugged road frame. I have lots of bikes with fenders and racks and lights with all sorts of braze-ons. What I want is a "road racing" look frame, as-in no eyelets on the front or rear dropouts or forks or seatstays, no kickstand plate. Everything else can be the same - long chainstays, long top tube, relaxed geometry, 700c x 38 or 44, etc. Centerpulls or cantilevers would be ok as long as the cable stop and posts were brazed onto the seatstays and forks. Half chromed forks and seatstays would be wonderful. Just a clean road bike that rides like a Riv. Not very likely. Not even sure that it could happen on a custom. Basically, I want a fatter tired, higher handlebar (still drops) cross between my old Masi and my Paramount.

Laing

Cocoa, FL

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Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[EasyRider]

For me to buy another Riv? I don't know what it would look like, but it'd be an oddball like my 53cm Rosco road.

I like the Rosco origin story, and the creativity behind it. It certainly helped sell me on the bike, no doubt. (The tire clearance, semi-horizontal drops, price, and tall headtube did as well.)

I think my bike's origin story went something like this? "Here's a leftover fork that was made for a six footer's bike we don't sell anymore. Use it design a bike for someone five inches shorter and have fun while you're at it."

Pete

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Whooboy... and I've become overwhelmed with just 4 (8 completes in the family, 4 each between my wife an I) and a couple old frames and boxes of spare parts. 

Truth be told, as an owner of only one Riv I think my 65cm Clem H is the only bike I'd realistically ever need... and although completely joking about a Pugsley-Hunq hybrid I'm serious about longing for a fully lugged Clem/Hunq/Bombadil-ish custom with swappable front/rear wheels.

I'm finding I no longer have the time/space to ride/maintain more than one or two bikes.  Still scheming to find ways to reduce but keep "alternates" available in storage and rotate at leisure and when time permits.

But with that said I do believe a 68cm Quickbeam/Simpleone/Frank Jones Sr., 64cm Sage DTT Sam, or 67cm AHH (*maybe with QB/S1/FJ trackends plus derailer hanger or long campy type horizontals) would likely push those custom thoughts aside and warrant more immediate action.

*replacing verticals on these hypothetical Sam/AHH would be conditional in that it would complement my existing vertical equipped Clem H and therefore allow fixed/free ss or geared drivetrains in a lighter duty/sportier frame. 

[Mark in Beacon]

lconley wrote: If you have a serious bike hoarding disease, they don't all need to have fenders.

Of course they don't. Right now more than half of mine are fenderless. My point was (IMO, of course)  it's kind of pointless to take away the possibility. But sure, no braze ons for fenders. Not on a stock Rivendell though.

[Lum Gim Fong]

@TonyDe

Interesting points.
I was just thinking of single sized fasteners on whole bike, but don’t know how could be done. Nice to only carry one allen wrench. Maybe all the heads have only one sized allen hole even though the bolt shafts could be diff.

RE: shortened tt for longer stem arsthetics.
I tried using a longer stem on my bike and it made it more wobbly handling. So I just stick to my 6 cm stems.

[Jim Bronson]

I would like something more randonneuring oriented, medium trail for front bag load, clearance for fenders and 42mm slicks, more lightweight tubing like the Rambouillet of yore.

Obviously the Rando market is not that big, so whatever Grant rationalization/riv-specific marketing speak had to be put in place to sell it to non-randos, I would be fine with that.

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 2:21 AM, drew <drewbe...@gmail.com> wrote:

It’s late and I’ve been inspired by lum gim fongs Willy nilly topic creation.  I’ve owned 2 sams,  a hunq, Clem and Atlantis. Down to just an Atlantis now and pretty happy. I’ve been thinking about what kind of model would get me to buy a new rivendell again. So I pose the same question to you all. (Let’s eliminate the things they won’t do, like low trail and disc brakes)

For me, it’d be a Roadini with clearances for
2.1 tires or a canti cheviot.

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[Joe Bernard]

Pete: The Rosco project is still tugging on me, too. I love the double-toptube ones, and am tempted by the 55.5cm still available. It's technically way too big for me, but I can make the seattube length work - I ride a 55cm Cheviot - and it would test my sneaking suspicion that my long torso/stubby legs body can ride a much longer toptube than the numbers say. But I don't need another bike...