Touring with 32h wheels?
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Jan RBW
Aug 24, 2010, 3:48:09 PM8/24/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
I could get cheap wheelset with Shimano XT hubs, Mavic A319 rims and Sapim Race spokes.
The only problem is that the wheels only have 32 spokes each.
Would it be enough for some occasional touring? Are 36 spoke wheels considerably stronger?
I weight 165 pounds and my bike + gear max 75 pounds = 240 pounds altogether.
Jan
Bob Cooper
Aug 25, 2010, 12:46:11 AM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
I’m sure others will weigh in on this, but the numbers alone are not
encouraging.
Other questions:
Weight distribution front and back?
How smooth the road?
How wide the tires?
Diameter of the rim (20-inch, 28-inch)?
How wide the rims?
Off-center rims?
How wide the OLD (126, 130, 135)?
How many sprockets (one, five, eleven)?
And now, the Pièce de résistance: Who built the wheels?
My two cents,
Bob
encouraging.
Other questions:
Weight distribution front and back?
How smooth the road?
How wide the tires?
Diameter of the rim (20-inch, 28-inch)?
How wide the rims?
Off-center rims?
How wide the OLD (126, 130, 135)?
How many sprockets (one, five, eleven)?
And now, the Pièce de résistance: Who built the wheels?
My two cents,
Bob
Michael_S
Aug 25, 2010, 1:31:08 AM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
MY opinion and experiences says yes. I've toured on 700c Dyad rims, XT
hubs with 32 Sapim spokes with 250 lbs with no issues. Mine were
professionaly built and I used 28mm tires. all pavement too.
Both your rims and hubs are fairly stout.
~Mike~
hubs with 32 Sapim spokes with 250 lbs with no issues. Mine were
professionaly built and I used 28mm tires. all pavement too.
Both your rims and hubs are fairly stout.
~Mike~
Beth H
Aug 25, 2010, 9:49:32 AM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
I concur with Bob in that there are other variables. Rim width and hub
strength also matter -- as does how much you generally carry, and
where.
I recently helped a customer who wanted us to rebuild his 32-spoke
wheel with a wider rim -- but he wanted to run a 25mm tire on it. When
I looked at his frame, I saw why; the sport-road frame he was trying
to tour and commute on gave him no clearance for wider tires! The
fenders had been hacked and split to fit the bike because there was NO
fender clearance; and his rear rim was in danger of collapsing because
the sidewalls of the rim were visibly, scarily concave. It was obvious
that he used his rear brake a lot and his front brake relatively
little by comparison.
I asked him how much he carried on his bike and how much he rode.
"A lot," he answered. "Maybe 4,00 to 5,000 miles a year and I usually
carry between 50 and 100 pounds on back. I do a lot of loaded touring
during the summer. The rest of the year I haul lots of books and a
laptop for work and do bike-moves a couple times a month."
Yikes.
I gently explained that his frame was limiting his rim and tire
choices, and that running a wider rim with such a skinny tire wasn't a
great idea. I suggested he consider building up a new wheel with 36 or
perhaps even 40 spokes; or consider a different frameset that would
accommodate wider rims and bigger tires.
He shook his head. Apparently, in his quest for a lighter, smoother
wheel, he'd spent a lot of money on a VERY fancy (American-made,
gorgeous, CNC-machined, etc) rear hub; and he didn't want to sell it
and take a loss on what he'd paid. However, his custom-built wheel had
lasted less than a year. He was breaking spokes right and left and did
not want to consider alternatives because of what he'd already spent.
I advised him he'd be looking at the same thing again if he stayed
with these parameters, even if we built him another custom wheel. It
was not the answer he wanted to hear. He left, saying there had to be
a way to get a lightweight set of wheels that would fit his frame AND
last more than 9 months under the stresses he was putting on them. He
vowed to find that way. I shrugged and wished him luck.
So many people I talk to expect parts to be lightweight AND supremely
durable at the same time. The idea that they have to accept ANY
additional weight in order to have a stouter bike or wheel galls them.
And the fact that they've been sold that set of expectations, well,
THAT galls ME.
..::sigh::..
Beth
strength also matter -- as does how much you generally carry, and
where.
I recently helped a customer who wanted us to rebuild his 32-spoke
wheel with a wider rim -- but he wanted to run a 25mm tire on it. When
I looked at his frame, I saw why; the sport-road frame he was trying
to tour and commute on gave him no clearance for wider tires! The
fenders had been hacked and split to fit the bike because there was NO
fender clearance; and his rear rim was in danger of collapsing because
the sidewalls of the rim were visibly, scarily concave. It was obvious
that he used his rear brake a lot and his front brake relatively
little by comparison.
I asked him how much he carried on his bike and how much he rode.
"A lot," he answered. "Maybe 4,00 to 5,000 miles a year and I usually
carry between 50 and 100 pounds on back. I do a lot of loaded touring
during the summer. The rest of the year I haul lots of books and a
laptop for work and do bike-moves a couple times a month."
Yikes.
I gently explained that his frame was limiting his rim and tire
choices, and that running a wider rim with such a skinny tire wasn't a
great idea. I suggested he consider building up a new wheel with 36 or
perhaps even 40 spokes; or consider a different frameset that would
accommodate wider rims and bigger tires.
He shook his head. Apparently, in his quest for a lighter, smoother
wheel, he'd spent a lot of money on a VERY fancy (American-made,
gorgeous, CNC-machined, etc) rear hub; and he didn't want to sell it
and take a loss on what he'd paid. However, his custom-built wheel had
lasted less than a year. He was breaking spokes right and left and did
not want to consider alternatives because of what he'd already spent.
I advised him he'd be looking at the same thing again if he stayed
with these parameters, even if we built him another custom wheel. It
was not the answer he wanted to hear. He left, saying there had to be
a way to get a lightweight set of wheels that would fit his frame AND
last more than 9 months under the stresses he was putting on them. He
vowed to find that way. I shrugged and wished him luck.
So many people I talk to expect parts to be lightweight AND supremely
durable at the same time. The idea that they have to accept ANY
additional weight in order to have a stouter bike or wheel galls them.
And the fact that they've been sold that set of expectations, well,
THAT galls ME.
..::sigh::..
Beth
Jan RBW
Aug 25, 2010, 5:00:36 AM8/25/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Mavic A319 is a 25mm wide 700c rim. Shimano XT hubs are 135mm rear 100mm front. I'm going to use 35-40mm tires and 9-speed 11-32 cassette. The riding will be pavement and smooth gravel - not any real offroad touring. I'll load the bike so that it'll probably be around 60-65% back and 35-40% front - not complete sure. Anyway the bike has drop bars quite high up and both rear rack with panniers and light camping equipment and lowriders with smaller front panniers.
The wheels are probably poorly built but I'll take them to a good wheelbuilder for "braking in" and truing.
2010/8/25 Bob Cooper <robert...@frontiernet.net>
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Fai Mao
Aug 25, 2010, 2:49:01 AM8/25/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
I have 32 spoke 650B Dyads on my Sam and rode it to Shanghai this summer.
--
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The Blogger who sometimes responds to comments
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Dave Craig
Aug 25, 2010, 10:59:12 AM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
I weigh 210 and have used 32h rims on my 29r on really rough trails.
Kind of middle of the road hubs and rims with good spokes - handbuilt.
They are still in great shape years later.
In spite of what some folks might say, I don't believe there's a magic
wheelset for touring. There are a LOT of people touring on whatever
wheels they may have and they are having a great time doing it. I've
also seen a bunch of folks (me included) riding on fussily overbuilt
wheels and they are not necessarily having any more fun than anyone
else. A "bomber" wheel doesn't necessarily guarantee no problems - On
one tour, I had Velocity Dyad rims, a Phil 40h rear hub and great
spokes on a hand built wheel. Two thirds of the way through the tour,
the rear rim cracked, rendering the wheel useless (a manufacturing
defect). I finished the rest of the tour on a no name, $100 dollar,
36h rim rim off a cheap hybrid and had no further problems. Go
figure.
I'll acknowledge that some wheels are more durable and I certainly
invest in well made wheels. I do tell folks to use 36h rims for
touring if they have a choice, I also see a lot of folks using kit for
a variety of outdoor activities that is probably more expensive than
they need for their daily needs because they bought it for trips they
might do some day. For your size and day to day riding 32h rims will
be fine. Go with the 32h rims. See what happens! The worst will be
that you'll break a couple of spokes and you'll learn how to deal with
that from the experience.
Dave (stepping off the soapbox)
Kind of middle of the road hubs and rims with good spokes - handbuilt.
They are still in great shape years later.
In spite of what some folks might say, I don't believe there's a magic
wheelset for touring. There are a LOT of people touring on whatever
wheels they may have and they are having a great time doing it. I've
also seen a bunch of folks (me included) riding on fussily overbuilt
wheels and they are not necessarily having any more fun than anyone
else. A "bomber" wheel doesn't necessarily guarantee no problems - On
one tour, I had Velocity Dyad rims, a Phil 40h rear hub and great
spokes on a hand built wheel. Two thirds of the way through the tour,
the rear rim cracked, rendering the wheel useless (a manufacturing
defect). I finished the rest of the tour on a no name, $100 dollar,
36h rim rim off a cheap hybrid and had no further problems. Go
figure.
I'll acknowledge that some wheels are more durable and I certainly
invest in well made wheels. I do tell folks to use 36h rims for
touring if they have a choice, I also see a lot of folks using kit for
a variety of outdoor activities that is probably more expensive than
they need for their daily needs because they bought it for trips they
might do some day. For your size and day to day riding 32h rims will
be fine. Go with the 32h rims. See what happens! The worst will be
that you'll break a couple of spokes and you'll learn how to deal with
that from the experience.
Dave (stepping off the soapbox)
doug peterson
Aug 25, 2010, 11:41:12 AM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
Jan:
Those wheels will be fine for the service you describe. Your weight
and load a modest, and paved roads / smooth gravel are not in
themselves tough on wheels. Do get them professionally checked and
stick with your 35-40 mm tire size. IME nice plump tires at
reasonable pressures make a wheel's life a lot easier.
dougP
On Aug 25, 2:00 am, Jan RBW <jan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mavic A319 is a 25mm wide 700c rim. Shimano XT hubs are 135mm rear 100mm
> front. I'm going to use 35-40mm tires and 9-speed 11-32 cassette. The riding
> will be pavement and smooth gravel - not any real offroad touring. I'll load
> the bike so that it'll probably be around 60-65% back and 35-40% front - not
> complete sure. Anyway the bike has drop bars quite high up and both rear
> rack with panniers and light camping equipment and lowriders with smaller
> front panniers.
>
> The wheels are probably poorly built but I'll take them to a good
> wheelbuilder for "braking in" and truing.
>
> 2010/8/25 Bob Cooper <robertcoo...@frontiernet.net>
> > .
>
> - Show quoted text -
Those wheels will be fine for the service you describe. Your weight
and load a modest, and paved roads / smooth gravel are not in
themselves tough on wheels. Do get them professionally checked and
stick with your 35-40 mm tire size. IME nice plump tires at
reasonable pressures make a wheel's life a lot easier.
dougP
On Aug 25, 2:00 am, Jan RBW <jan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mavic A319 is a 25mm wide 700c rim. Shimano XT hubs are 135mm rear 100mm
> front. I'm going to use 35-40mm tires and 9-speed 11-32 cassette. The riding
> will be pavement and smooth gravel - not any real offroad touring. I'll load
> the bike so that it'll probably be around 60-65% back and 35-40% front - not
> complete sure. Anyway the bike has drop bars quite high up and both rear
> rack with panniers and light camping equipment and lowriders with smaller
> front panniers.
>
> The wheels are probably poorly built but I'll take them to a good
> wheelbuilder for "braking in" and truing.
>
>
>
>
> > I’m sure others will weigh in on this, but the numbers alone are not
> > encouraging.
>
> > Other questions:
>
> > Weight distribution front and back?
> > How smooth the road?
> > How wide the tires?
> > Diameter of the rim (20-inch, 28-inch)?
> > How wide the rims?
> > Off-center rims?
> > How wide the OLD (126, 130, 135)?
> > How many sprockets (one, five, eleven)?
>
> > And now, the Pièce de résistance: Who built the wheels?
>
> > My two cents,
>
> > Bob
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com<rbw-owners-bunch%2Bunsubscribe...@googlegroups.com>
>
>
> > I’m sure others will weigh in on this, but the numbers alone are not
> > encouraging.
>
> > Other questions:
>
> > Weight distribution front and back?
> > How smooth the road?
> > How wide the tires?
> > Diameter of the rim (20-inch, 28-inch)?
> > How wide the rims?
> > Off-center rims?
> > How wide the OLD (126, 130, 135)?
> > How many sprockets (one, five, eleven)?
>
> > And now, the Pièce de résistance: Who built the wheels?
>
> > My two cents,
>
> > Bob
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
cm
Aug 25, 2010, 12:03:05 PM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
In my experience it is much more common for people to be out touring
on “whatever” wheels than good (or even decent) touring wheels. The
same is true for bikes too—you see a lot of old road bikes and old
mountain bikes out on the roads. Ideal? No, but it definitely works.
I did my first long (4500 miles), self-supported tour on a fully rigid
mountain bike with 32 spoke wheels, 8 speed drive train, and very
aggressive racing set up (read: very long stem, very low h-bars). I
made it, no problems.
Other friends toured all over the worked on $200 hybrids, averaging
more than 60 miles a day. They put over 20,000 miles on those bikes
with no major issues. The did eventually buy touring bikes
(www.gphe.org).
On the flip, did a tour last summer and one of the guys had a brand
new touring bike with 40 spoke wheels. The wheel exploded after 400
miles. Poorly built? Maybe. Overloaded? Definitely not (total weight
of rider plus gear was under 200 lbs).
Part of touring is the breaking and the fixing. Prepare for it b/c it
seems to happen regardless of the quality of the bike or the
component. Of course you can minimize the chances by buying
specialized, specific gear, but unless you are going to be in
Mongolia, I say ride what you already have.
Cheers!
cm
on “whatever” wheels than good (or even decent) touring wheels. The
same is true for bikes too—you see a lot of old road bikes and old
mountain bikes out on the roads. Ideal? No, but it definitely works.
I did my first long (4500 miles), self-supported tour on a fully rigid
mountain bike with 32 spoke wheels, 8 speed drive train, and very
aggressive racing set up (read: very long stem, very low h-bars). I
made it, no problems.
Other friends toured all over the worked on $200 hybrids, averaging
more than 60 miles a day. They put over 20,000 miles on those bikes
with no major issues. The did eventually buy touring bikes
(www.gphe.org).
On the flip, did a tour last summer and one of the guys had a brand
new touring bike with 40 spoke wheels. The wheel exploded after 400
miles. Poorly built? Maybe. Overloaded? Definitely not (total weight
of rider plus gear was under 200 lbs).
Part of touring is the breaking and the fixing. Prepare for it b/c it
seems to happen regardless of the quality of the bike or the
component. Of course you can minimize the chances by buying
specialized, specific gear, but unless you are going to be in
Mongolia, I say ride what you already have.
Cheers!
cm
Angus
Aug 25, 2010, 12:34:41 PM8/25/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
I have toured on 32 spoke wheels, but they were 26 inche wheels.
I did have some spoke wear (notching at the outermost cross) on the
rear after an 8 day tour.
My 700c touring wheels have 36 spokes.
Angus
I did have some spoke wear (notching at the outermost cross) on the
rear after an 8 day tour.
My 700c touring wheels have 36 spokes.
Angus
CycloFiend
Aug 26, 2010, 12:13:50 PM8/26/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
It's interesting that two postings in this thread have described 40 spoke
rims failing. The one thing which is easy to forget is that while you gain
lower per spoke tension by increasing count, you are also drilling holes
into an aluminum extrusion and putting the structure under tension. There's
a point out there where you are creating a "drillium" rim. Higher spoke
counts are not without secondary effects.
rims failing. The one thing which is easy to forget is that while you gain
lower per spoke tension by increasing count, you are also drilling holes
into an aluminum extrusion and putting the structure under tension. There's
a point out there where you are creating a "drillium" rim. Higher spoke
counts are not without secondary effects.
I'm not sure I have a larger point to make.
...other than to reinforce that the air in the tire is the suspension
system, and bigger, supple tires are the saviour of many marginal wheels.
There are absolutely bombproof 48, 36 and 32 spoke wheels, and if you mate
those with larger tires, that's a very, very good thing.
- J
--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net
Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com
Current Classics - Cross Bikes
Singlespeed - Working Bikes
Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com
"Steel's what you want for a messenger bike. Weight. Big basket up front.
Not cardboard with some crazy aramid shit wrapped around it, weighs about as
much as a sandwich."
-- William Gibson, "Virtual Light"
William
Aug 26, 2010, 12:18:13 PM8/26/10
to RBW Owners Bunch
There are a lot of good thoughts here. For essentially every
conceivable combination of equipment you will find at least one rider
who will say "I used A,B,C for a million miles with two tons and it's
good-as-new" and you will find at least one rider who will say "I used
A,B,C for 100ft with 10lbs on it and it fell apart". So it's always
hard to predict. I will say that a very very experienced wheelbuilder
is a great place to invest. I'll also add the +1 for cush in the
tires.
On Aug 26, 9:13 am, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's interesting that two postings in this thread have described 40 spoke
> rims failing. The one thing which is easy to forget is that while you gain
> lower per spoke tension by increasing count, you are also drilling holes
> into an aluminum extrusion and putting the structure under tension. There's
> a point out there where you are creating a "drillium" rim. Higher spoke
> counts are not without secondary effects.
>
> I'm not sure I have a larger point to make.
>
> ...other than to reinforce that the air in the tire is the suspension
> system, and bigger, supple tires are the saviour of many marginal wheels.
>
> There are absolutely bombproof 48, 36 and 32 spoke wheels, and if you mate
> those with larger tires, that's a very, very good thing.
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
conceivable combination of equipment you will find at least one rider
who will say "I used A,B,C for a million miles with two tons and it's
good-as-new" and you will find at least one rider who will say "I used
A,B,C for 100ft with 10lbs on it and it fell apart". So it's always
hard to predict. I will say that a very very experienced wheelbuilder
is a great place to invest. I'll also add the +1 for cush in the
tires.
On Aug 26, 9:13 am, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's interesting that two postings in this thread have described 40 spoke
> rims failing. The one thing which is easy to forget is that while you gain
> lower per spoke tension by increasing count, you are also drilling holes
> into an aluminum extrusion and putting the structure under tension. There's
> a point out there where you are creating a "drillium" rim. Higher spoke
> counts are not without secondary effects.
>
> I'm not sure I have a larger point to make.
>
> ...other than to reinforce that the air in the tire is the suspension
> system, and bigger, supple tires are the saviour of many marginal wheels.
>
> There are absolutely bombproof 48, 36 and 32 spoke wheels, and if you mate
> those with larger tires, that's a very, very good thing.
>
> - J
>
> --
> Jim Edgar
>
> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com
> Current Classics - Cross Bikes
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
> Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com
> Singlespeed - Working Bikes
>
Eric Norris
Aug 26, 2010, 12:22:53 PM8/26/10
to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
FWIW, I have a pair of 28-spoke wheels that have been very durable for me (185-190 pounds, depending on how many pastries I'm eating). I wouldn't recommend this setup, but the wheels came this way (old school Campy high flange hubs, Mavic MA3 rims, standard DT spokes) so I used them. Rode them all the way from SF to LA a few years ago.
I totally agree that a good wheelbuilder is a must. The rear wheel *did* have issues with spokes breaking until my favorite wheelbuilder rebuilt it as 2X instead of 3X. Since then, nary a problem.
--Eric
Sent from my iPad
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