Cargo/Kid bike recommendations (or bikefriday vs. tern)

[Drw]

For the last 4 years I've been carrying my kid and all of our family's gear on a rosco bubbe mountain step-thru with crust clydesdale fork. 

Overall, it's been great, but as he gets bigger, having that amount of weight, that high up, plus a decent load up front is starting to feel really wiggly. I had early on thought that my son would be riding a bike well enough to transition to one of those tag a long attachments like the burley piccolo, but he has some sensory issues with balance and gross motor that will probably make that not a real possibility before he is big enough to just be riding fully on his own. 

So, I'm looking for a compact cargo bike with the following requirements. 

-Non electric

-Footprint no bigger than a standard bike 

-Platform/bench rear seat for kids

-Some front cargo capability

-uses deraillers (though i could be swayed to an IGH)

Right now I am mostly looking at the bike friday haul-a-day elite and the tern short haul D8. Both have pros and cons. I am open to any other cool options. And any thoughts about the above models would be appreciated as well. 

Thanks,

Drew

[Hoch in ut]

Honestly, cargo bikes are nice but they’re pretty spendy and take up a lot of space. 

I sold my cargo/kid specific bikes and got a trailer. Chariot is excellent. Kids are safe, surrounded by a cage. Also weatherproof weather rain, sun, cold, etc. Best part is you can hook it up to your favorite bike. Very versatile and cost-effective solution. 

[Piaw Na]

My personal solution was to get a tandem (really, a triplet/quad that converts). The kids love it, and we just rolled over 13k miles on it since getting it 8 years ago. Other parents will tell me that my kids are special, and that their kids couldn't stay on a bike that long. I would take their kids on the tandem and it turns out that their kids had no problem biking for as long as mine. It's just that most parents don't want to do the work. Yes, it's expensive (though not that expensive if you buy used), but in exchange you get kids that would rather go on a bike tour than disneyland.

[Drw]

I guess I should've mentioned that space is a real issue, and the child is 5 years old. Ideally the cargo bike would have the same footprint as the rivendell it would be replacing. Also our riding is almost entirely urban, much of it without bike lanes, so I worry about the trailer option. I have no evidence, but pulling it through traffic makes me nervous. 

[Max Faingezicht]

Not what you’re looking for, but I saw this bike the other day and thought it looked cool (not cheap though)

Max

On Jul 21, 2023, at 2:47 PM, Drw <drewbe...@gmail.com> wrote:

I guess I should've mentioned that space is a real issue, and the child is 5 years old. Ideally the cargo bike would have the same footprint as the rivendell it would be replacing. Also our riding is almost entirely urban, much of it without bike lanes, so I worry about the trailer option. I have no evidence, but pulling it through traffic makes me nervous. 

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[Edwin W]

Max - love that Ritchey cargo bike. But dreamy pricey - take a cool old $300 MTB and add a $350 fork and ask $2900 for it!

Hoch - I know some love a trailer, but I never liked having my kids that far away and that low

Piaw - love those stories. I never had a tandem for my kids, but I agree - you do the work, the kids like it!

Drew - I love both of those mini cargo bikes. Can't go wrong there!

We had, over the years:

• a box bike: lots of smiles from passers by, kids loved it (just ride and chill!), but I never used it unless I had more than one kid. Takes up a lot of space
• a yuba mundo: long, but super useful. Felt just like an old mountain bike when empty. Looks like they are moving more towards electric.
• A workcycles Fr8: this was the one that is most like a regular bike. Heavy as all hell, but super comfy to ride. I got the seat that goes in front and the kids all fought for that space until they were older than 10!

Best of luck. Let us know what you settle on,

Edwin

[JohnS]

Hello Drew,

The only cargo bike I have experience with a Surly Big Dummy. I've had it for over 10 years now, my sons have long out grown it, but I still use it once a week to go the farmer's market and load it up. I understand your concerns about the long wheel base, it does take up a lot of room. Have you looked at the older Specialized Globe Haul? Not as long a wheelbase as the big dummy, but it does have an integrated rear rack. Not sure how easy it is to find a used one...

JohnS

[Michael Baquerizo]

i'm soon going to find myself in a similar situation. have been using my sam with the yepp maxi in the rear. i initially installed it on a mt-campee rear rack when he was much smaller and i wasnt really concerned with the weight, but hes close enough to the 40 mark that i'm worried about it. have been using it a ton this summer too.

unfortunately don't have real room or budget for a second bike, but will also never say never to it, especially if him and i can continue moving around efficiently. 

hoping for more ideas from others with similar experiences.

[rlti...@gmail.com]

Tern used to make the Cargo Node which basically paired an Xtracycle cargo kit with the Tern folding bike. It worked great for me while I had it and it folded down to save space.

Not sure if they make a similar model today. I seem to remember hearing that Xtracycle quit making their cargo conversion kit?  Here was the Cargo Node I had:

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 21, 2023, at 10:49 AM, Drw <drewbe...@gmail.com> wrote:

For the last 4 years I've been carrying my kid and all of our family's gear on a rosco bubbe mountain step-thru with crust clydesdale fork. 

<IMG_2875.jpg>

Overall, it's been great, but as he gets bigger, having that amount of weight, that high up, plus a decent load up front is starting to feel really wiggly. I had early on thought that my son would be riding a bike well enough to transition to one of those tag a long attachments like the burley piccolo, but he has some sensory issues with balance and gross motor that will probably make that not a real possibility before he is big enough to just be riding fully on his own. 

So, I'm looking for a compact cargo bike with the following requirements. 

-Non electric

-Footprint no bigger than a standard bike 

-Platform/bench rear seat for kids

-Some front cargo capability

-uses deraillers (though i could be swayed to an IGH)

Right now I am mostly looking at the bike friday haul-a-day elite and the tern short haul D8. Both have pros and cons. I am open to any other cool options. And any thoughts about the above models would be appreciated as well. 

Thanks,

Drew

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<IMG_2875.jpg>

[Josh C]

It's long, but I love the surly big dummy or big fat dummy. They are just great riding bikes, loaded or empty. I've had several and they are all great bikes. It's long but not much longer than a clem (for some reason). Great riding bikes and you won't even notice 100lbs or so on the tail. 

[Ed Carolipio]

Given your parameters, I think the two bikes you identified are your best bets. I have first hand experience with the Tern HSD, which is the electrified version of the Short Haul, and it does everything it's advertised to do. [One side comment: I never connected "emotionally" to any Tern bike, lol, just pure transportation. I tolerate our Terns but if I had a choice, I'd select a long wheelbase cro-mo cargo bike instead.]

+1 on going with a single seat trailer as an alternative. (Don't get the two seater: they're impractically huge.) That's a good option given your space limitations plus most Rivs can readily haul child trailers. The Burley D'lite X is the best: spendy but super comfy for your child, easy to sell once you're done with it. Lots of ways to not pay full price new, and check your local Craigslist for parents who are done with theirs for used options.

Good luck,

--Ed C.

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 10:49:29 AM UTC-7 Drw wrote:

[Eric Daume]

You could look for an old Kona MinUte. Kind of a short cargo bike. There was another model like this, but I can't remember what it was.

Eric

[Brian Turner]

It amuses me that the difference in wheelbase length between my medium Big Dummy and my medium Gus is only 9”. 

On Jul 22, 2023, at 12:53 PM, Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:



You could look for an old Kona MinUte. Kind of a short cargo bike. There was another model like this, but I can't remember what it was.

Eric

On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 1:49 PM Drw <drewbe...@gmail.com> wrote:

For the last 4 years I've been carrying my kid and all of our family's gear on a rosco bubbe mountain step-thru with crust clydesdale fork. 

<IMG_2875.jpg>

Overall, it's been great, but as he gets bigger, having that amount of weight, that high up, plus a decent load up front is starting to feel really wiggly. I had early on thought that my son would be riding a bike well enough to transition to one of those tag a long attachments like the burley piccolo, but he has some sensory issues with balance and gross motor that will probably make that not a real possibility before he is big enough to just be riding fully on his own. 

So, I'm looking for a compact cargo bike with the following requirements. 

-Non electric

-Footprint no bigger than a standard bike 

-Platform/bench rear seat for kids

-Some front cargo capability

-uses deraillers (though i could be swayed to an IGH)

Right now I am mostly looking at the bike friday haul-a-day elite and the tern short haul D8. Both have pros and cons. I am open to any other cool options. And any thoughts about the above models would be appreciated as well. 

Thanks,

Drew

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[Drw]

Thanks for all the thoughts and feedback. It's unfortunate that there are so few non electric options these days, but helpful to know which older models to keep an eye out for. I did discover that Yuba has a version of the Kombi that isn't electric and about the same price as the Tern. Bike Friday would end up being at least 1000$ more, so I'm leaning toward the Yuba or Kombi. 

[Edwin W]

Drew,

Where are you? Depending on the family bike scene near you, Facebook marketplace or craigslist might have some deals. When I sold my cargo bikes in Nashville, I sold then to someone from 4-5 hours away each time, so it is often worth it to spread your radius if you don't find something local.

Good luck,

Edwin

[Chester]

Drew,

The Yuba Kombi probably will make more sense in the long term because it's, like, a mid-tail cargo bike and when your kid is riding on their own it's still useful as a cargo hauler. Also can best serve as both kid and cargo interchangeably, during transition period when you want your kid to be able to hop onto padded bench seat sometimes, but not so much that you're going to keep a full child seat installed.

Smaller wheels do make carrying a kid feel better. I went from riding with a kid in a Thule rear rackmount seat on an old 26" Rockhopper and then got an Orbea Katu with 20" wheels and the latter rode much nicer with the top-heavy load. Even for me but especially for my wife, who isn't so confident on a bike, even without a load.

Orbea unfortunately doesn't sell the Katu in the USA any more. It's a great family bike for sub-"cargo" use but is closer to a mid-tail cargo bike (with 20" wheels) than most minivelos, with pretty long chainstays/wheelbase. Also with geo designed for more upright riding and flexible range of rider height. Plenty of heel clearance to ride with a set of panniers mounted to an add-on rear rack, and also has an "integrated" rack that bolts on to the headtube.

Based on my experience, 20" wheels instead of even 24" wheels I think will be appreciably nicer with a load above the rack line, but 24" is at least better than 27.5" or 26" in that regard, and if you'll keep it as a cargo bike will probably be preferable to 20" at that point.

Chester

SF Bay Area

[Will Boericke]

Why not electric?  My kids are nearing college age and I'm looking forward to replacing a car with an e-cargo bike.  I have no specific recommendations for you, but to me, you get more general utility with a motor.

Will

[Will M]

Drew,

I faced the same dilemma a few years back.  An Atlantis + Rich-Lesnick-built 36-spoke rear wheel (and child carrier) were easily rated for my 40-lb 5 y.o., (also w/ sensory issues) but I found the weight that high up (on top o' 700c wheel) made the stability unsafe.  Really unsafe.  

If the "footprint" is a constraint you'd consider relaxing, the discontinued Yuba Sweet Curry is the one to get.  Checks all your other boxes. Analog, capacity for rider plus 300 lbs (250-lbs in back and 50-lbs in front basket).  Twenty-inch rear wheel keeps the kids low and they can wiggle all they want (4 year old + 8 year old = 110 lbs + backpacks).  Frame-mounted front-basket with 50-lb capacity has little effect on handling (try putting 50-lbs in my Wald 139 basket on the front of the Atlantis!  Not.)  Handles like my old BMW motorcycle.

Alas, the Sweet Curry is discontinued, and the Yuba Kombi (with 24" wheels) is the analog option now.  Slightly shorter wheelbase and lower weight capacity of the Sweet Curry, but with the monkey bars in back, your son will not outgrow it for years.  Yuba website shows a nice way to hang 'em vertically in small apartments. :-)

Tip: The Analog Yubas are sped'ed with gearing that's too tall.  I swapped the front crank with the RBW/Silver 24x38.  The ratios are perfect with the 11x32 rear cassette.  And the 178mm (!) crank arms definitely help when starting up at traffic lights with 110-lbs of kids.    

Seems space is a hard constraint for you.  It is me too (NYC apartment), so the Yuba lives on the street year-round.  I simply know of no other bike that will be as good for a 5-y.o. (and then 6 and then 7 and then...)    I take mine to my LBS twice a year for maintenance.  Since 2017, I've worn out 1 rear hub, 2 bottom brackets, 5 chains, 2 complete sets of disc brake pads, 1 rear derailer, and 1 broken derailer hanger.  And folks have stolen the saddle and post and cushions.  Oh well.  Bright lights, big city and all.

Wow, that Globe Haul is a neat option too.

Cheers,

Will

NYC

[Drw]

Yeah it's definitely between the Kombi and Short haul now. Leaning Kombi, but finding anywhere that stocks these for a test ride is proving impossible in los angeles. Looks like the Kombi is out of stock now as well. 

Will M, did your Yuba come with a double up front? The Kombi is a 1x and I dont know how easy it would be to route a cable and put a derailer on it with all those weird tubing sizes and shapes. Could always just have another chainring on as a manual bail out, I guess. 

[maxcr]

I've been following this thread with interest.  I'm still on the lookout for a rosco bebbe, but if you're looking for a Yuba Sweet Curry here are few options for sale around the country:

https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/bik/d/albuquerque-yuba-cargo-bike/7648949239.html

https://denver.craigslist.org/bik/d/wheat-ridge-2019-yuba-sweet-curry/7626882551.html

https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-yuba-sweet-curry-long-tail/7643178697.html

The last one seems to be a good deal.

Max

[Michael Baquerizo]

recently put together a mundo for a friend with a triple and there's nothing weird about the seat tube. took a regular FD without any shims, etc. cant imagine a kombi is much different?

On Saturday, July 29, 2023 at 2:19:26 PM UTC-4 Drw wrote:

[Will M]

Drew, I was able to check out a Kombi. It does have the braze on for a front derailleur cable stop, as well as cable guides for the cable route down the down tube. A conversion to a double or triple crank is doable!