Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Bob Lovejoy]

I figured I would ask on the off chance (or maybe not so off?) that someone has ridden all three bikes and can describe their take on the differences they detected.  I know from design that the Roadini should be faster than the Sam and the Sam faster than the Joe.  I know from a touring and rough stuff perspective it would be the Joe then the Sam then the Roadini.

That said, I am curious if anyone has had the chance to ride all three and what impressed them regarding differences as well as similarities.

My caveat, as I now say often, is I have no business asking!  Still, I would be curious...  I have a Joe that I love but having the Joe built for rough stuff and something else built for faster and smoother riding does sound like a great thing.  I am attracted to the Sam but fear there is just too much overlap with the Joe I already have.

Anyway, figured I would ask...  Thanks in advance for any help or descriptions.

Bob L.

Galesburg, IL

[Belopsky]

have not ridden all three but i say get the roadini

[drew]

I had a hunqapillar, then I got a Sam hillborne with the intention of doing what you describe. 1 tourish and one fastish. Long story short, Sam never felt much faster than the hunq. It probably was, marginally, but it never felt sprightly. I sold the Sam first.

All that said, in my experience, a hillborne is about as close to a do-anything bike as I've ever ridden. It is equally a road bike as it is a dirt road tourer....but if you have a dirt road tourer, why buy something else that is half overlapping?

I only have an Atlantis now. If I was to get a second bike, and it was going to be a riv, I'd get the roadini.

[Bob Lovejoy]

That is interesting about the comparison between the Hunq and the Sam.  And even though I have not owned a Sam, I can still agree with you on the versatility and do-it-all nature.  I feel the same about the Joe, though I know the Joe falls slightly to one side of the rough vs road line, maybe the Sam slightly to the other.

I do think the Roadini is the logical choice.  I am still just a little concerned about the sizing.  I think a conversation and maybe some pictures (at Riv's convenience) will help a lot in that regard.  I also have a couple of older (but nice) bikes I need to give one more chance to - a 62/63cm Raleigh Randonneur that I know is too big for me and a (60cm) Trek 720 that seems to ride slightly smaller than I prefer.  Still, I should at least give them a chance.. and, yes, talk with Will or someone at Riv... :>)  I also have a 650B conversion that works extremely well so, in theory, more than theory, I should be set.  Still, I do love the way the Rivendells ride and fit me so the lure is always there.

Thanks for the help and the comparisons!

Bob

[Joe Bernard]

My comparisons will be Joe, Hilsen/Saluki and Ram/Romulus, which should roughly compare to the three you listed. H/S and R/R were pretty much the same horizontal tt road bike with different wheel sizes; the Joe is longer, thicker and with a lower stepover..it's a touring/rough-stuff bike. If I still had my Joe and wanted an all-road Riv alternative, I'd go
Roadeo or Roadini.

[Jay Connolly]

I have a Sam, a Clem L, and a Joe. Setup is everything. The Clem L is new and a workhorse: groceries, errands, and dog walking. The Joe is in another location—one with bad pavement, lots of gravel connectors, soft forest trails, and a bit of mud—and I have it set it up for “anyroad” riding, with 700 x 50 Cazaderos. I have been running a Jones bar, but on the weekend, I’m going back to Noodles (stole the Jones for Clem). I don’t ride for fast, but I ride hard about half the time, and I like the variety of hand positions on a drop bar. The Sam is set up for long road rides where the pavement is mostly good. I just bought a Nitto Moustache from a list member and will convert the bike this winter (stole the noodles for the Joe). I like the aggressive position of the moustache. The Sam has 700 x 44 Snolqualmie Pass treads, which I just love but don’t ride in the winter on account of the accumulated debris and winter rain where I live. Lotta winter flats. The Joe is a great explorer, the way I run it, but it’s not vastly different from the Sam. Because of different tires, bars, and intentions, though, they feel very different. It’s easy to raise and lower the stem on the Sam to make it more or less aggressive. I would love a Roadini, but I’m probably too heavy for it, and I like to be able to run a 38.

Jay

[Ed Carolipio]

I was in a similar situation: I have a Joe and was looking for "something else" to complement it. I ended up getting a Roadini instead of the Sam since I thought there was too much overlap between the Sam and the Joe. (To be fair, I haven't ridden the Sam.) I peeked at the Roadeo but don't ride often enough to justify the cost difference. As others have said, setup is everything so I purpose built each for the job: Joe is an upright tourer/townie (racks, fenders, dynamo lights) and Leo is a drop bar meanderer. I live in the city so all my riding is asphalt, with road quality and traffic being the biggest variables.

As expected, efficiency is the most notable difference with the two (duh). I say "efficiency" since as an old fart I don't go much faster on the Roadini, but I can definitely go further and hills are much easier to tackle. Both are fun to ride in their own Rivendell way, and the Roadini "just for fun" is a nice change of pace from put-putting around on the Joe. The ride position makes a difference to me as well as I prefer the Joe when playing in traffic while I would rather ride the Roadini on dedicated paths or on not-so-busy streets.

Note that I did find the skinny tires (Paselas) on the Roadini a little jarring, at least compared to the 50mm Marathons on the Joe, so I bit the bullet and got Compass 32mm tire. That helped out a lot. I'm still messing with other setup things on the Roadini, but I'm definitely happy with it as an alternative to the Joe which I can just grab and ride.

--Ed C.

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks Ed.  That helps a lot, as well as the comments from others.

Question(s) - From a sizing standpoint, did you fit in the middle of the PBH recommendations for a particular size (of the Roadini) or were you on the outer edge of those recommendations (where you could have gone with either a smaller or larger frame)?  If on the edge, which way did you choose?  Also, if you were in the middle of the recommendations, does the bike fit you just as expected?  Any surprises as to saddle/handlebar heights or reach?  What size Joe vs Roadini?  

Big thanks for any help or info!

Bob 

[Bill Lindsay]

My main 'real world road bike' is my Sam Hillborne.  I have a stipped down racing bike that resembles a Roadini, a Black Mountain Road bike.  If your application requires a stripped down racing bike, the Roadini is more like that.  

Let's say hypothetically you built up a Roadini with a light build and had a 22 pound road bike, with 32 mm tires.  If you moved that build kit over to a Hillborne, the only different thing you would need is a 135mm rear hub and cantilever brakes.  That hypothetical Hillborne would be about 23 pounds, or about half a water bottle heavier.  On that light Hillborne you'd could run 38mm Barlow Pass tires instead and be just as fast (or faster) and way more comfortable, and still could run fenders, which would take you up to 24 pounds.  You could add a nice handlebar bag and dynamo lighting and now you have a full feature brevet bike.  

It's true that if you do an urban assault vehicle build on a Sam you might end up with a 32 pound bike which would 'overlap' a fair bit with an Appaloosa.  A light Sam build could definitely give a Roadini a run for its money. A Roadini is a straightforward stripped down race bike. If you are sure you need/want a stripped down straightforward race bike (and nothing more, ever), it's a great choice. If you want a 'real world road bike' that excels at a wider swath of applications, there's very little compromise with a Sam to buy you that versatility. You could absolutely run the Sam as a loaded touring bike, or a cyclocross race bike, or a drop bar trail bike, or an upright commuter, or a stripped down road bike. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 4:09:49 PM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks Bill!  You do remind me of a friend, a co-worker, in Denver.  I would have spent far too long overanalyzing something, usually which bike to keep, sell, modify, build a different way, etc.  I would tell him of my dilemma, whatever it was, expecting at least a delay in his response while he thought through all that I told him.  Anyway, without any discernible hesitation, he would say, just do this, this and this and, well, problem solved!  And I would stand there, lost for words, as he always seemed to cut to the essence of the problem and present, almost always, the right answer.  You guys kill me!  And make me laugh at myself as well...

You are exactly right!  The only danger would be my own habit of overbuilding and making a bike heavier than it needs to be.  I do know the Sam would fit me, no doubt about that.  I am going on more group rides (the "Cyclists of Galesburg"!) and though we do not go that fast, a little additional efficiency or speed would be welcome.  I could overbuild the Joe for touring and rough-stuff and just try and have some discipline with the other bike, whatever it might be.

I will consider your words!  As they are wise... :>)

Hope all is well there!  Following your adventures and bike builds is a true gift here, so please keep all that up!  Thanks for your help.

From the "true winter will be here soon" Midwest,

Bob L.

Galesburg, IL

[Sky Coulter]

Hi Bob,

Not quite the comparison you requested, but I have a 55cm Joe appaloosa built up with dropbars, a 60cm saluki (which seems functionally similar to the hillborne) and a 61cm Romulus (which seems functionally similar to the roadini).  Their respective weights are 37lbs, 32 lbs and 24lbs the way I have them built up.  When clad with snoqualmie extralights the joe is possibly just slightly slower than the saluki. With marathon supremes my commute which takes 36min on the saluki, ends up taking 40min on the joe (a hilly 7.5 miles).  Of the two, I prefer the handling of the saluki, but prefer the v-brake stopping power on the joe and its capacity for load carrying. If push came to shove, I'd sell the saluki first.  If I had planned on using sweptback bars, I think the 55cm joe would have been a bit too small, but as a dropbar it fits me nicely. I based my choice on stack and reach numbers and haven't regretted that choice.

The romulus with 30mm grandbois extralight tires seems to be very similar in speed to the saluki but climbs with less effort and is slightly less comfortable over rough road surfaces.  Still pretty comfortable though.  And of the two, I prefer the saluki's handling -- it feels quite responsive to steering input but holds a line easily.  

If I already had a Joe and I was deciding between a roadini and a canti (or vbrake in my case) hillborne, I'd pick the hillborne and then build it up more or less racey as I felt like. 

I do wonder if the Atlantis isn't the perfect one bike to rule them all though -- handling similar to the saluki and tire, brake and load-carrying capacity similar to the appaloosa.  Maybe someday, but I think my next bike purchase will be a small appa for my wif, who thinks mine is just about as nice as a bike can get.

Sky in new west

[Jonathan]

I was in a similar situation to you a couple months ago. I have a Joe that I love, but I wanted a Rivendell for longer, faster road rides. 

I chose to pre-order a Sam mainly because of the sizing issue that you referenced in your other thread. Like you, I have an 89cm PBH. My 58 Appaloosa fits great. I have had too many bikes that feel just a little bit too big or a little bit too small. I was worried about being in between sizes on the Roadini, but with the Sam I fit right in the middle of the recommended PBH range. On top of that, you get more tire clearance, more braze-ons, and more lugs. As Bill mentioned in the last post, the Roadini might end up being a little bit faster, but other than that, the Sam gives you way more options for future builds. 

Yes, Joe and Sam framesets might appear to overlap, but the builds will set them apart. My Joe is typical commuter with fenders, racks, bags, upright bars (currently Chocomoose, but planning to try the Bosco Bullmoose). When the Hillborne gets here, it will get drop bars, fenders, 38mm Barlow Pass tires, and a saddle bag. 

Sorry I don't have any actual ride comparisons, but my Sam wont be here until January. 

[John G.]

Bill speaks wisely. I also bought a Roadini frameset (pre-order frenzy always gets me), even though I also owned a Black Mountain Cycles road bike. Functionally, they are almost identical. If I could do it all over again, I would probably buy a Sam instead of a Roadini for all of the reasons Bill lists. It's more versatile, and you're probably sacrificing a pound at the most. 

This is not a critique of the Roadini. It's more of a critique of how I make silly decisions about my own stable.

And FWIW, I traded a few emails with Grant and he said my 89.5 PBH would put me on a 58cm Sam, no question.

[Mark in Beacon]

I'm not sure I would characterize the Roadini as fulfilling the role of a "stripped down racing bike" at least not in the modern sense (where that term is redundant). With room for 35mm tires and with fender braze-ons, it's more like a regular sport touring bike from the 1960s, 1970s. And that pound less in the frame & fork is not so much about the pound, but a lighter, maybe livelier, more responsive bike frame. Being "way more comfortable" on 38mm tires vs. 35mm tires is subjective, and also depends on road surfaces and rider build and style. Since you already have a rough and ready Joe, my vote would be for a Roadini, described by Riv as "an all-aroUnd, all-weatHer road Bike. it gives up nothing to modern extreme bikes on smooth, ideal roads, and is far better in every way when conditions are crappy. it has the classical clearances of the oldies, higher quality overall construction, is more comfortable, and rides like a Rivendell." 

For most U.S. paved roads a bicycle with 28-35mm tires will be just dandy. And it may give you a little more road feel feedback, which can also translate to the feeling of speed for some. And who cares how fast you are actually going? That's one reason I love to ride at night--you instantly go 5mph faster. Anyway, I think with a Joe and a Roadini, you've got your bases covered nicely. My 1974 Ron Kitching can take 35mm tires and has fender braze-ons, and I could do D2R2 with that bike no problemo. But, although one bike is never faster than another, it does have a snappier response when I jump the pedals hard than my bikes with bigger rubber and stouter tubesets. Is it measurably faster? Who cares?! Riding bikes that are different enough is what lets you know you are riding bikes that are different. Fun!

[Adam Kilgas]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:35:40 PM UTC-5, Jonathan wrote:

..with the Sam I fit right in the middle of the recommended PBH range. On top of that, you get more tire clearance, more braze-ons, and more lugs.

I feel like that last bit is important to consider... They're not just any ordinary lugs, after all.

[Mark in Beacon]

Very true. But the OP has a fully lugged Joe. And the Rivs always have enough nice details to stand out from the full-tig crowd. In this case the sexy new seat cluster and of course a lugged fork. Plus you get the pirate-y head badge!

[Jonathan D.]

I have not practiced a lot of restraint this past year with buying Rivendell bikes and my n+1 has increased significantly. I currently ride a Joe, Sam and Rambouillet. Though I can’t speak to the Roadini, Will did describe the Ram as very similar to the Roadini but with Lugs. In terms of ride reports, one thing I have noticed is that Grant’s descriptions tend to be right on. That doesn’t stop me from reading these discussions but when I go compare my own experience with Grant’s description, my experience supports Grant’s description. Each bike is set up different, which can also impact the ride.

At a high level, my Joe is setup to carry a load - often my kid and groceries. It carries weight well. The Sam is in between - it is not a road bike but setup with lighter wheels and tires. The Ram is my go fast from Scott on the list with dura ace and Chris King wheels,

The Joe was the first bike I purchased and I loved it. My best description is it rides like a boat, and I mean that in a good way. It is steady and smooth on the road and leans in turns. I can cruise along and enjoy the scenery. It handles dirt great does wonderful with a load.

The Sam felt like a fast bike when I got it. It just responds faster. It is comfortable while still feeling like it can move. I could probably set it up like the Joe and it would ride different. I am not sure what would happen if swapped components.

The Ram does feel faster. I wouldn’t load it up but I feel like I am moving when I ride it and after getting used to drops again, really enjoy the ride. I wouldn’t want to put a kids seat on it. It feels like it wants to be a light, go fast bike.

If I had to choose two bikes, I would choose the Sam and Ram. I like the Joe but I also don’t think I use it in the way I get the most value. I might end up selling it on the list but I also enjoy riding it with my kid. The Sam is the perfect all rounder. I could tour with it and probably get 90% of the use I do with Joe if I added more racks and the child seat. I could also get the Sam close to the Ram and make make it close the 90% of the go-fast bike. The Ram is a lot of fun and a great complement to the Sam. It’s great to have a bike that I don’t put a lot of racks on and keep stripped down. I think Grant spoke about the Roadini in this way.

Bill’s descriptions of the Black Mountain Cycles makes me want to add another bike to the stable. Both the Mountain Cross and the Road bike sound great and perhaps I would get a disc version of one of those bikes.

In short, if I had just one bike I would probably go with the Sam for its versatility. N plus 1 is the Sam and Ram. If I added a third bike, I might go with a Clem L in hindsight but I still love the Joe.

[Will]

Yes... I think Atlantis is the bike that rules them all. I love mine. It does everything well.

It has beautiful lugwork and the s-bend chainstays are pure framebuilder art.

[Dave Grossman]

This is a great thread.  I am selling my Gunnar Roadie to a buddy to get into a more spine friendly road bike.  I want something with good stack, short reach, and the ability to take wide tires without being a slug.  I have a Hunq setup as my commuter, but have debated getting a Roadini or the BMC MC or Road.  I have a pretty sweet FBM/Endpoint Hunter Gatherer which is doing all of my road riding right now.  Somedays I just long for something a bit more go fast.  I hadn't really considered the Sam on that list but being your comments I will going forward.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Well said, Bill.  I guess it's similar thinking that has made me want a 64 Sam as a do-it-all, but alas the 64's are no longer an option, which I found out after asking Will at Riv while I was still waiting for the Mega Clem H's to come in.  I was thinking back then that a Sam/Clem combo would be tough to beat... but then wondered if both a 64 Sam and 65/67 AHH were made in Waterford then the value gained in terms of affordability of the Tawainese Sam's is lost and I was hoping Will could help differentiate cost vs. versatility, etc. of the two being made in Waterford.  He confirmed the 64cm Sam was no longer an available option anyway and noted at my 97+ pbh they'd prefer to put me on a 67cm AHH.  Unfortunately, such a thing is way out of my budget right now but still in the back of my mind as I continue to debate my future cycling.  If I could ever afford it I'm sure I'd be very pleased with a Homer to complement my Clem.  I still have lots of other experimenting I want to do with bikes/frames already in my possession (and then I've also wanted to get my hands on a big 'ol 68cm QB too) but I'd like to believe it won't be too long before I'm ready to actually trim down to just two.

Brian Cole

Lawrenceville, NJ  

[LBleriot]

I agree with Mark. I would not describe the Roadini as a “stripped down race bike’” at least not in the modern racer sense. To me, the Roadini is a basic, not too light/ not too heavy road bike. I think of it as a partially lugged San Marcos; maybe a little more sprite. I’ve been riding the snot out of it on the road, paths, and smooth single track. It’s my fender less winter road bike. I use it when I don’t want risk messing up the paint and parts on my Roadeo. Sorry I can’t compare it the other bikes mentioned by the OP.

[Patrick Moore]

Gary: sorry if you have answered this before, but: How does the Roadini ride compared to the Roadeo?

On Sun, Dec 24, 2017 at 1:01 PM, LBleriot <gary....@att.net> wrote:

I agree with Mark.  I would not describe the Roadini as a “stripped down race bike’” at least not in the modern racer sense.  To me, the Roadini is a basic, not too light/ not too heavy road bike.  I think of it as a partially lugged San Marcos; maybe a little more sprite.  I’ve been riding the snot out of it on the road, paths, and smooth single track.  It’s my fender less winter road bike.  I use it when I don’t want risk messing up the paint and parts on my Roadeo.  Sorry I can’t compare it the other bikes mentioned by the OP.

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Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?

[Bill Lindsay]

Mark in Beacon and LBleriot don’t like me calling the Roadini a stripped down race bike. Then they go on to describe using the Roadini with no fenders, no lighting and no racks.

A road bike with no fenders, no lights, no racks and no luggage is a stripped down race bike in my book. So we agree!

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[Adam Kilgas]

Doesn't the Roadini use some of the same tubes as the Sam? And for the ones that aren't shared, how do they compare with the equivalent Sam tubes? I know a comparison like that, in addition to geometry charts, helps me to know how a frame will ride and perform.

[Mark in Beacon]

Except that A. I did not describe the bike with or without anything. And B. A Roadini can take any or all of these items, as can any other Rivendell. You can have a "stripped down" Homer, Sam, Cheviot, etc. So a specific Roadini might be set up as a "stripped down racing bike" but I do not think of it as an apt descriptor for the Roadini model. I will agree that that an excellent way to enjoy the attributes of a Roadini would be to set it up as a circa 1974 stripped down racing bike! Happy Holidays!

[Bill Lindsay]

You did describe a Roadini with 35mm tires and since a Roadini can’t take 35mm tires with fenders, I took that to mean no fenders. Roadini is a cool bike.

Happy New Year

Bill

[LBleriot]

I haven’t raced in over twenty years, but when I did it was not with DT shifters, 32 Paselas, and 36 spoke box rims. So, in my mind the Roadini is not a “stripped down racer.” I can put fenders, lights and a rack on it, but that doesn’t make it a randonnuese or touring bike either. YMMV.

[LBleriot]

Patrick, my Roadeo is built up with Campy 10 Speed brifters and lightweight pacenti wheels and supple tires. My Roadini is built up with 8 Speed DT shifters, box rims and 32 pasela tires. So, the comparison is influenced more by components than frame design. I liken the Roadini to the San Marcos, Ram and Rom.

[ted]

Twenty five years ago I was racing in the sf Bay Area on a Nobilette built frame with down tube shifters, medium reach brakes and 36 spoke wheels with box section (albeit tubular) rims. In my mind it was a striped down racer then and I would still consider that bike one today.

Of course nothing RBW sells is a "stripped down racer" in the modern sense, but the Roadio is their "answer to speedy carbon road bikes that ..." and the AHH is their country bike. Isn't the Roadini to the Roadeo as the San H is to the AHH, namely a more affordable bike that's basically functionally equivalent, and doesn't that make it RBWs more affordable striped down race bike?

[Joe Bernard]

Yes.

[Jonathan D.]

That is my undertanding. The Roadini is a cheaper Roadeo because it’s made in Taiwan, less lugs and sloping top tube so need less sizes. It’s not clear what the tubing difference is but I believe Rivendell mirrors the ride characteristics in terms of geometry. The same goes for the Sam and AHH. Does anyone know if the tubing on the Sam and AHH is similar?

I am also curious if the Rambouillet is more similar to the Roadini or AHH, or is it just splitting hairs? Riv describes the Ram as similar to a Roadini but with more lugs. Sometimes I think I am just looking for differences to justify another bike.

I have both a Sam and Ram and love both. I can’t truly compare ride difference since one is setup as a go fastish bike while the other is a commuter.

[Bill Lindsay]

Don’t get me wrong. I agree that a Roadini with 28mm tires, fenders, dynamo lighting, front low rider panniers and a not-huge saddlebag could make an awesome stealth S24O or weekend sport touring rig. I have no doubt I could pull that off.

The OP is in Galesburg. The bike I used to have stashed in a Galesburg garage was a 1992 RB-1. That was a stripped down racing bike and it was just dandy. It’s a nice 70-mike out and back to Oquawka, where you can dip your front wheel in the Mississippi River. A stripped down race bike is all you ‘need’ for that. If I wanted to get onto the gravel farm-roads, I’d want a little more floatation, I think.

It depends on what the OP wants. Both the Sam and the Roadini are terrific. It’s easy to underestimate the touring capabilities of a Roadini and it’s easy to underestimate the pure road bike capability of a Sam.

[Jonathan D.]

Bill - As a fan of BMC bikes how would you compare the BMC monster cross and road bikes to the Riv frames. Is the Monstercross similar to the Sam and Road to the Roadini? I always appreciate reading your perspective. I think I remember reading you had two BMC Road Bikes.

[Bob Lovejoy]

Well, decision made here - a 58cm black/cream Sam frame is somewhere, most likely bobbing on the ocean, making its way to me.  The decision really hinged, not only on the good advice and info from people, but really on the question of sizing.  If my ~89cm PBH fit squarely in the middle of the recommended sizes/PBH's for the Roadini I might have gone that way.  That said, and it's been said before, a bike that fits well is a wonderful thing, the most important thing, and I have complete confidence the 58cm Sam will fit me perfectly, both in size and for the riding I do.  I also have a few more parts laying around for the Sam build versus the Roadini.

The only problem is I somewhat justified the new frame by thinking I had the discipline to part out my Cheviot, using the wheels and such for the Sam, and, somewhat predictably, I don't think I can do it!  The Cheviot is just too nice, too special...  So the future-Sam will attract its parts from a different bike, from the stash, from wherever needed or what appears.

Anyway, I agree with almost all of the statements and observations stated!  I do think the Roadini is a cool frame and could be built as almost anything.  But, at least around here, using the gravel roads when exploring is almost a given.  The good (paved) bike roads are many times best tied together with the gravel farm roads so there was that.  And I never could get completely confident with the Roadini sizing for me - and I admit I could very well be wrong on that.  Still, in my particular situation, the Sam won out and I am excited!  

Best to all and here's to great rides and adventures in the new year,

Bob Lovejoy

Galesburg, IL

[John Bokman]

I expect you'll love the Sam. I had a Sam (2009) that was, what I considered, too large for me (a 60cm frame). Even though I was just long of leg enough for the 60cm frame, with my 89 PBH, I felt too stretched out on the long top tube. I could have chosen the (then) 56cm frame. Wish I had done that. In retrospect, it would have been perfect. After 7 years on the bike, I took off the parts and got a (new school) 58cm Sam. I absolutely love it, and it's the ride I always wanted from the original but never got. I'm right in the middle of the size range. It's one of the best fitting bikes I've ever ridden. I load Sam to the hilt, and it's great for that. I ride it unladen, and it's great for that, too. It's always carrying racks, front and rear (Tubus Logo Evo and Tara, respectively, and a Nitto mini front, always with a Ocean Air Docena front bag). It's a splendid ride. Once you get a Riv that really, truly fits, it's bliss.

[Bill Lindsay]

I think the BMC Road is a less-fancy-looking functional equivalent to the Leo Roadini and the Roadeo.  I had Mark Abele at Rivendell help me with some minor set-up work on one of my BMC Roads, and he said "this thing is an amazing deal for what you get".

The BMC Monster-Cross does compare somewhat to a Canti-Sam.  I have run Bruce Gordon Rock and Roads on my Sam and the BMC Monster Cross was kind of designed around that tire.  So they are pretty close in capability. 

Bill who-rode-his-stripped-down-racing-BMC-today Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks John... That is good to know about the older 60cm Sam versus the newer (58cm) version.  Over the last few months I saw a 60cm Sam for sale and wondered if that was the way to go.  I dug up the old geometry charts and decided to just wait, thinking it might be just what you experienced.  Though I have broken the rule at least once, it seems more important on the Riv's to take into account whether the frame was designed with drops or upright bars in mind.  I think I came to the somewhat vague conclusion the 60cm was tilted more to upright/swept bars and I think your description confirms that.

And I absolutely agree on finding the right fit.  I seem to have become more particular (or maybe just cranky and finicky) on fit but it occurred to me while I was browsing different frames and bikes that the Rivendell's fit and feel better to me than any other bike I have ever ridden, and that covers more than a few bikes.  

And congratulations on finding your bike!  It sounds perfect in both fit, function and fun.  I always say that when you are near or walk by your bike it should call to you, that you should want to go ride right then!  Sounds like your bike is exactly that bike...

Bob

[Jonathan D.]

Thanks Bill. Leaning towards adding a BMC road to the fleet next year. Perhaps I can make it to Point Reyes in 2018. The Road plus seems pretty exciting as well.