panniers

[Don]

OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. Thanks

[PATRICK MOORE]

I have a pair of Ortlieb Packer Pluses and a front pair of Ortlieb
Packer Sports or whatever they are called. The nicest panniers I've
used (not that I've used many: Carradice small ones, Axioms both Dutch
and Standard, Avenirs, Nashbars). The QR mounting system with quick
adjust features is excellent.

Carradice also have a very nice mounting system.

Beware of unstructured, unstiffened panniers. These work fine with a
rack that fully protects the wheel -- ie, one with many struts like my
Tubus Logo -- but these things flop and get into the spokes otherwise,
making their use a purgatory.

Shopping panniers: I asked not too long ago for recommendations and
received many; after once again using my modified Axiom Dutch
panniers, I decided that these are really fine for short grocery rides
and that I don't need to spend more money on grocery packers. (I
reinforced the openings' lips with aluminum strut.) Any money I spend
on new panniers will be for more Ortliebs or Carradices.

Patrick Moore, who just yesterday evening carried home 35+ lbs of
groceries (including 8 lbs of sirloin on sale!!) in his Dutch Axioms.

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Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
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-------------------------
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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[PATRICK MOORE]

Forgot to add: one of my current favorites is a home-brew hack for a
largish-medium Timbuktu to which I riveted a dowel that I can
toe-strap to my rack. (Note that this is floppy and unconstructed: you
can successfully use it only with a rack that supports it away from
the spokes.) The shoulder strap stuffs inside the bag for pannier use.

The principal benefit of this is that it is the sole bag of the half
dozen sets I own that can swallow my daughter's absurdly stuffed and
heavy middle school backpack (structural weight, apart from variable
addons, 15 lb) when I ride to pick her up. But given the right rack,
such a hack gives a capacious carryall that converts back to its
original use (the dowel isn't uncomfortable as long as the bag is not
overloaded when so used. Note that this convertibility will probably
not be as successful with bags using the Chrome type of stabilization
that keeps the bag closer to the contours of one's back.

[Don]

Wow, Patrick you get the award. 35 pounds of groceries. Actually I was thinking of picking up a BOB Yak 28 Plus for grocery runs.

[Anne Paulson]

There's a reason why Ortliebs are so popular among tourists. That
reason is not fashion. The first day you ride hours and hours in the
rain, and are then able to pull out dry clothes (or not), is the day
you realize you want Ortliebs.

--
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I too use Ortlieb Sport panniers. Another benefit is that they are bright yellow for good visibility. 

I also like have the small (front) Carridice Super C panniers, but have not used them in the rain.

Toshi

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[Allingham II, Thomas J]

A vote for Arkels.  Very well made, bright colors, extremely solid mounting hardware, and fitted rain covers to deal with Anne’s point.  I used GT-54s on the rear and GT-18s on the front for a fully loaded tour, and have used GT-18s front and back for smaller loads.  Their handlebar bags are ugly, but very solidly mounted (with extremely easy on/off) and very, very useful, too.

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[PATRICK MOORE]

I once grunted 45 lb (including bags) up a 4/10 mile, 20% grade on my
erstwhile 67" '73 Motobecane grocery fixie at 20 rpm (4 mph).
Yesterday it was the 24/24 at 60 on the Fargo.

Odd: the Motobecane, now belonging to Eric Norris, was built from
light 531 and weighed less than my Riv frames, yet it carried rear
loads better.

> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/TePDLeJgRc4J.

[PATRICK MOORE]

More accurately, the steepest parts of that hill are 20% or more;
there are shallower sections.

[PATRICK MOORE]

They come in different colors; mine are red.

[Kelly]

Dawn and I use Arkel expedition series panniers.   We used them for years and in extensive rains without getting anything wet.  I carry a down sleeping bag so keeping dry is important.   The many pockets and vertical sleeping pad carrier are fantastic.    

I love the Ortlibs as well I just don't like the top load stuff it in thing.   Arkel has spoiled me.  

Here is my Bombadil in Alaska

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7688451664/in/set-72157630829044946

Here is my Wife's bike last week

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8064303695/in/set-72157631715248107/lightbox/

Arkel also makes rolltop water proof bags.    Either way though Ortlieb or Arkel I don't think you could go wrong with either. 

Kelly

[Don]

Great pics. Thanks

[RJM]

Anybody use the Sackville panniers?

 

 

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:05 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

[dougP]

Others have covered the water resistance issue well & that's an important point.  Another thing to study is the mounting & retention hardware.  You will likely be taking them off the bike often when on tour, so it has to be something quick & easy, yet solid and secure.  Before you buy, ask about the availability of replacement hardware.  Lots of this stuff is plastic and will break over time and with abuse, even high quality gear.  Carefully think thru your gear, clothes, etc. when picking a size. It's real easy to just get the biggest bag you can but that makes it easy to drag around a lot of stuff you don't use.  OTH, if you're camping in a wet climate, cooking, carrying food & water, you want enough room.  

 

Visibility:  I have a big safety triangle attached to my left rear bag, and a set of yellow rain covers for all 4 bags.  The Ortleib yellow is a great color but I've followed those, and the black rear panel is what you see from the back. 

 

dougP

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

one point about Arkel... they're great panniers and their attachment system is rock solid but takes some real estate to properly clamp onto the rack rails. I mention this because the OP mentioned Nitto racks. My late model (w/ the corner truss reinforcements) Big Back Rack (size large) is NOT compatible with the Arkel mounting system because of the relative position of the trusses and cross pieces (the ones that connect L-R looking at the rack from above). The truss/ cross piece alignment is different on my wife's Big Back Rack (size small) and the Arkel's fit fine. 

--Andy

 

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:50:05 AM UTC-7, Don wrote:

[Kelly]

Andy

They are adjustable. I found my artel attaching system fit right in the center of the triangle. One set once its no muss no fuss. I'm talking about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses. Same thing you are noting?

Kelly

[doc]

Swift Short Stacks: http://gspiess.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/swift-and-x-bike-015.jpg

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

+1, or a variation, the Swift Mini Short Stacks, which are not really Mini, but perfectly sized for short tours and commuting.  Here, on the Mystery Bike:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8023681452/  They also have a very clever strap setup that enables the rider to dramatically reduce the size of the panniers when they’re empty, which can be very useful in tight spaces.  And MUSA.

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[Ron Mc]

throwing these up again, I like Carsick Designs panniers.  They are lined and waterproof, easy on/off in/out and I think they look sharp.  

http://carsickdesigns.com/PRODUCTS/Pages/PANNIERS.html

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:05 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I had no trouble fitting my Arkels on a Big Back Rack with the trusses.  It’s tight, but absolutely doable (the mounting clips are movable, which makes it work).

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy Smitty Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:54 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: panniers

 

one point about Arkel... they're great panniers and their attachment system is rock solid but takes some real estate to properly clamp onto the rack rails. I mention this because the OP mentioned Nitto racks. My late model (w/ the corner truss reinforcements) Big Back Rack (size large) is NOT compatible with the Arkel mounting system because of the relative position of the trusses and cross pieces (the ones that connect L-R looking at the rack from above). The truss/ cross piece alignment is different on my wife's Big Back Rack (size small) and the Arkel's fit fine. 

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[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the cross piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the Arkel hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was always in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the pannier from hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp to engage holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into place, but I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this afternoon and see if I can get it to go.

--Andy  

[Kelly]

If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the pannier that fits, the rack and them together. 

Kelly

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

With the rack off and the pannier empty, I got it to work. Tight fit that involved some monkeying to get it on but it's a solid attachment. Thanks for the counter experience. 

I took a few pics in case anyone's wondering what the issue was... http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/8074911181/

--Andy

[Kelly]

Andy,

Try it this way.  May save some on and off headaches. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8075416632/in/photostream

Kelly

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

How I failed to think to move the thingy forward of the triangle is beyond me. Now that I see the pic, it seems the obvious and most simple solution. Thanks!

I briefly (months ago when I got the panniers) contemplated cutting the triangle off. Glad I didn't do it. 

I assume stability is fine with the narrower grab? 

[Kelly]

Doesn't effect stability at all. I've ridden this on some really rough roads no problem.

Kelly

[Don]

Kelly,

I could see from Andy's picture what his problem was. It is not too clear to me from your pic how you solved it. Did you just reposition the pannier a little forward on the rack. Bottom line, and this is important to me, do the Arkel panniers (especially the largest one) fit on a large rear Nitto rack? After all of the discussion I am leaning toward the Arkel but I want to make sure that they will fit before I go through the hassle of ording them only to find out they don't fit. Thanks

[tdusky]

I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh Step Panniers.

They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these and his only complaint was too much storage room.

Check out the photo on flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/

Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

Tom Dusky

[Kelly]

Andy,

The attachments are adjustable.  You loosen a set screw and just move them to the positions you need for the rack you are using.   Yes they fit the rack with easy on and off.   

Kelly

[Don]

Tom,

I would like to see all the pics you have especially the hardware/attachment setup you used. 

Thanks,

Don

[PATRICK MOORE]

I too would like to see how you mount the home-mades.

As I've said before, the most practical grocery panniers I've used were two pairs I made from $4-on-sale kitchen trash cans from Target. It's just that I felt so self conscious riding around with *trashcans* hooked to my bike. I've still got a pair if anyone cares to come by and pick them up, (My next door neighbor has the other permanently attached to the cheap Schwinn World Traveller grocery bike I sold him for $50, and uses them regularly.)

(My trashcanpanniers were held together as a pair in the manner of "Dutch" panniers with nylon webbing and to mount you just slung them over the rack and used a toe strap to hold them in place fore-and-aft.)

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[IanA]

Those are great!  For extended touring, the plastic will likely start to break. Easy enough to move the hardware on to new ones, I guess. 

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

I moved the attachment hook (as in your pic). Smooth sailing. Thanks again, Kelly. 

On one of my flickr pics (linked above) a buddy suggested swapping the hooks so the cams swing open the opposite way. I may try it at a later date when I'm feeling tinker-y. 

On the trach-can-pannier front... bucket panniers are a common sight around Portland, OR. Only time I've used one... it was someone else's and I used it as a stool to sit on in camp. I imagine it could also be used to stand on to pick fruit too high to reach otherwise. 

-- A

[dougP]

You gotta appreciate someone who's not hung up on bag matching.  Saw a guy a couple of years back who was using a 5 gallon plastic bucket strapped to the rack top.  He pointed out that in addition to being water-proof, it doubles as a camp stool. 

dougP

[Anne Paulson]

When I was touring this summer with Adventure Cycling, part of the
group gear was three plastic dishpans we used for washing dishes. At
first they seemed like a nuisance, but when I volunteered to carry
them, the utility became obvious. I carried them, neatly nested, face
up on my front rack, held on by a cargo net. That space ended up being
useful for carrying things that needed not to be squashed, like a loaf
of bread, an apple pie or two bags of local cherries. And then around
the edges I could shove extra clothes that I took off during the day
or other things I wanted handy.

So I had my matching Ortlieb handlebar bag and panniers, and then dishpans.

I may carry a dishpan next time I tour. It was very useful both on the
road and in camp.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:34 AM, dougP <doug...@cox.net> wrote:
> You gotta appreciate someone who's not hung up on bag matching. Saw a guy a
> couple of years back who was using a 5 gallon plastic bucket strapped to the
> rack top. He pointed out that in addition to being water-proof, it doubles
> as a camp stool.
>
> dougP

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I have toured with Arkel GT-54s (their biggest pannier) on a Nitto rear rack.  It requires a little finagling, but it fits, and once on is both completely stable and easy to remove.  I wouldn’t worry; they’ll fit.  BTW, I have the Big Rear Rack with the diagonal struts in the corners right under the rack top, which is the only one that people have reported any issues with.  Still fits. 

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:34 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: panniers

 

Kelly,

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[tdusky]

Closeups added

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8078174442/in/photostream/

Tom

[Scot Brooks]

I'll add my +1 to the Swift Industries panniers. They're exquisitely made, and Martina really takes pride in her work and her involvement with the touring community. They're on my wish list for that reason, and also because I know 4 everyday commuters/touring cyclists who swear by her stuff.

[ekoral]

swift! swift! swift!