Flickstand alternatives? How to keep the front stable while not moving?

[Ash A]

Happy Friday everyone!

Today my Appa made its first 24 mile commute to work, with my laptop bag and bunch of other things in the front on Mark's rack/Wald's basket combo.

With all that weight in the front, keeping the bike stable while not moving was a big problem.  This is because the steering mechanism would turn all the way to the right or left, causing the bike to move and fall.   

Perhaps the solution is to somehow lock the front wheel to the down tube.  Quick search on the inter webs told me that there used to be something called Flickstand.  It doesn't exist anymore.

How do you folks deal with this situation?  Velcro the wheel to down tube maybe?  Is there a better option?

[Bill Lindsay]

Irish Strap from Rivendell or Arno straps from the camping department of the nearest store that has a camping department.

BL in EC

[Tim Gavin]

I clip the hook of a small bungee cord around one spoke eyelet on the front wheel, over the downtube, and then attach the other hook to another eyelet.

On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Irish Strap from Rivendell or Arno straps from the camping department of the nearest store that has a camping department.

BL in EC

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[Jeff Lesperance]

I've installed the Velo Orange wheel stabilizer on a couple of bikes that regularly carry front loads. They're really just springs, so they don't fully prevent the fork from flopping over if the weight in the front is too great and not otherwise held in check with something else, like your hands, but they work well enough in most situations. They have one for 31.8 diameter downtubes and 38-62 downtubes:

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/chainguards-stay-protectors-kickstands/vo-wheel-stabilizer-xl.html

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/accessories/chainguards-stay-protectors-kickstands/vo-wheel-stabilizer.html

FWIW, I lost the clamp for one of them before installing, and just used a large cushioned pipe clamp in its place and it's worked just fine.

-Jeff

Silver Spring, MD

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[Surlyprof]

I used to have a Flickstand and they were great if you didn't run fenders.  Rhode Gear made 'em.  In "Just Ride", Grant suggested hooking your helmet to the front wheel and downtube as an easy way to prevent grab-and-go thefts.  I found that also keeps the wheel from flopping.  I've also used my reflective pant leg straps on occasion.

John

[Ron Mc]

Velcro straps work great

I think this is one of spares for my softride tailgate pad

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Softride/SR26260.html?feed=np

[Ron Mc]

Velcro straps also work with fenders

my '74 International with Honjos

[Ash A]

The only solution I have handy today is helmet.  

Thanks Surlyprof.

I was thinking I'll get  a velcro as an official solution.  I think the helmet  works just fine!

I tried the reflective leg strap.  The one I bought from Riv.  It is not long enough for an Appa with 650B.

[Kai Vierstra]

I use a small velcro strap to hold my front brake lever, no bending over for me, and if the wheel flops it still can't move.
-Kai
BK NY

[Michael Monaco]

I set my quick release lever on the front brake caliper to hold the rim tight when engaged.  This prevents the bike from rolling easy to lean anywhere without fear of falling over.  I use the barrel adjuster to take up the tension, so when I need the remove the wheel, I loosen the barrel to allow clearance for tire between the brake pads.

Mr. Mike 

[Tom Wyland]

I have two bikes with baskets.  One has a steering lock built into the headset. Very handy.  On the other I use Nite Ize Gear Ties (18"). I put them through the wheel and around the downtube when parked. They are rubber coated wire, so they stay straight when you shove them through your spokes. Much less fussy than using straps or bungees.

Here's a link: http://www.niteize.com/product/Gear-Tie-18.asp

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 3:46:24 PM UTC-4, Ash wrote:

[Jacob]

I just got my hands on a set of Z-Loks. Basically a zip tie with a metal core and universal “key”. They are cheap and handy. I suppose one could use it as a stabilizer/theft deterrent. I don’t use them for that, but I don’t see it failing for that purpose. Just a thought.

https://www.hiplok.com/z-lok-zip-tie/

[Kiley DeMond]

Oh, is this one near and dear to my heart! I am just a jump on, jump off kinda gal, so all the fiddly solutions were not going to work long term for me. I bought a Flickstand off eBay before I installed fenders, so that lasted about a month (still have it for sale if anyone is interested). As of right now my 60cm Cheviot, aka Heidi, is sporting the Velo Orange solution which works pretty well. I did go to the hardware store and purchase the same spring in silver and I am working on a replacement spring cover in an appropriate color as Heidi doesn't look good in black. 

P.S. I use an Axa frame lock to further facilitate the 'jump on, jump off' way and the bike is heavy enough, no one is slinging it over their shoulder and running off, at least where I live.

[Tim Gavin]

I use a miniature bungee cord to stabilize the front wheel, especially when the bike is fully loaded.  

From one spoke, over the downtube, back to another spoke.

--

[Patrick Moore]

Kiley: How does the VO "flickstand" work in real life? I see it comes in a model suitable for large tubes, so it will fit on my Dahon. I'll buy one if they are effective.

Thanks.

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[Tom Wyland]

I have one of the VO spring stabilizers and it's a tight fit on some bikes at the bottom of the headset. It didn't fit the bike I intended to use it on.  I also have a Dahon and I don't think it would fit (it's an Eco 3).

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:

Kiley: How does the VO "flickstand" work in real life? I see it comes in a model suitable for large tubes, so it will fit on my Dahon. I'll buy one if they are effective.

Thanks.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 7:15 AM, Kiley DeMond <khde...@gmail.com> wrote:

Oh, is this one near and dear to my heart! I am just a jump on, jump off kinda gal, so all the fiddly solutions were not going to work long term for me. I bought a Flickstand off eBay before I installed fenders, so that lasted about a month (still have it for sale if anyone is interested). As of right now my 60cm Cheviot, aka Heidi, is sporting the Velo Orange solution which works pretty well. I did go to the hardware store and purchase the same spring in silver and I am working on a replacement spring cover in an appropriate color as Heidi doesn't look good in black. 

P.S. I use an Axa frame lock to further facilitate the 'jump on, jump off' way and the bike is heavy enough, no one is slinging it over their shoulder and running off, at least where I live.

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 12:46:24 PM UTC-7, Ash wrote:

Happy Friday everyone!

Today my Appa made its first 24 mile commute to work, with my laptop bag and bunch of other things in the front on Mark's rack/Wald's basket combo.

With all that weight in the front, keeping the bike stable while not moving was a big problem.  This is because the steering mechanism would turn all the way to the right or left, causing the bike to move and fall.   

Perhaps the solution is to somehow lock the front wheel to the down tube.  Quick search on the inter webs told me that there used to be something called Flickstand.  It doesn't exist anymore.

How do you folks deal with this situation?  Velcro the wheel to down tube maybe?  Is there a better option?

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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Tom. I see that the Eco 3 had what looks like a molded aluminum frame; my Hon Solo has a steel tube "backbone", 39 mm IIRC, and a VO model ought to fit that. As for room at the bottom of the headset, I think there's room; so the question remains whether it really works to keep the wheel from flopping. 

I use the Hon Solo as a grocery getter, and it does have a particularly floppy front wheel.

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[Dave S]

Dual leg kickstand.  The bike will balance on three point depending on rear/front load.  Also the bike is perpendicular to the ground compare to a traditional one leg leaning stand so it tends to be less wobbly.

[Patrick Moore]

I have a Sanyo BB generator just aft of the bb. Also, FWIW, I've found that at least the VO and the Pletscher 2-leggers don't hold up asymmetrical rear loads well (a cheap Greenfield dropout-attached stand worked better, when I tried it), though on the Dahon I have a Camper LF rear and (soon) a Nelson LF front. 

If I install a hub dynamo, I will probably once again experiment with a 2 legged stand.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Dave S <macnc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dual leg kickstand.  The bike will balance on three point depending on rear/front load.  Also the bike is perpendicular to the ground compare to a traditional one leg leaning stand so it tends to be less wobbly.

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[Dave]

I've been using a Hebie Wheel Stabilizer on my 55 cheviot for a while, and aside from the occasional need to reinstall some protection under the downtube metal strap, it's been solid: http://www.hebie.de/en/parking/stand-accessories/steer-damper/695/

I believe I found mine on ebay, and while it's nearly identical to the VO model, I like the metal downtube bit vs. the plastic downtube bit.

Dave

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 11:59:53 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

I have a Sanyo BB generator just aft of the bb. Also, FWIW, I've found that at least the VO and the Pletscher 2-leggers don't hold up asymmetrical rear loads well (a cheap Greenfield dropout-attached stand worked better, when I tried it), though on the Dahon I have a Camper LF rear and (soon) a Nelson LF front. 

If I install a hub dynamo, I will probably once again experiment with a 2 legged stand.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Dave S <macnc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dual leg kickstand.  The bike will balance on three point depending on rear/front load.  Also the bike is perpendicular to the ground compare to a traditional one leg leaning stand so it tends to be less wobbly.

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[Drw]

Where does one find a headset with the anti flop blocking part?

[Tom Wyland]

This is what it looks like. It was installed on my Torker Cargo T. I can't find it in any searches, but that doesn't mean you still can't get get it from one of the bike supply catalogs.

They apparently had these on some older bikes pre-1970s. It's just a spring-loaded pawl that engages like a ratchet and makes turning difficult. It can also lock the handlebars slightly askew... helpful on sloped surfaces.

 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-locking-headset/rp-prod33075

[Tim Gavin]

Neat!  Looks like it can be ordered from European sources:  https://www.xxcycle.com/shimano-nexus-headset-thread-with-lock-ihpnx10b,,en.php

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[Patrick Moore]

Now that would be useful. But does it involve a proprietary headset, or is it something that can be used with other headsets?

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[Patrick Moore]

Tim answered my question.

And it won't fit my Dahon anyway.

But back to the VO and other spring devices (I like the VO because the clamp is plastic): do these work with a floppy fork with a heavy-ish front load? I just rode back from Sprout's with 23 lb in front lowriders on what I assume is a mid-trail Rivendell; floppiness tended to occur (so to speak). Would one of these spring things keep 23 lb from flopping around, yet not interfere with handling?

[Ian A]

Just lock the front brake lever. I use a toe strap. Works perfectly.

IanA

[Dave Redmon]

Even quicker is using a strong, light parking band spanning the distance from the backside of the handlebar to the front side of the brake lever. i use a high quality bungee looped through a section of inner tube which I then slip onto the handlebar opposite my front brake lever. i don't use a kickstand, so when i park I lift the looped bungee over the end of the brake lever, which locks the brakes quite firmly and holds the entire bicycle rigidly against a wall or post. (I prefer to allow only the edge of the handlebar to touch the wall or post, eliminating frame scratches.)  I use a 8"-10" section of strong, high-quality bungee looped through a section of old inner tube a bit larger in diameter than my handlebar. Be sure to place the section of inner tube into the bungee loop before you join the ends of the bungee. . Hold opposite ends of the bungee in a circle, place both ends in a bench vise or vice grips, then join them by wrapping hemp twine tightly around the two compressed bungee ends, knotting as you go.. My parking bands are inconspicuous, out of the way, and have been in use for several years. Works on any handlebar with any type of brake lever. By the way, those pony tail loops found everywhere these days are rarely strong enough to work properly. 

Dave in Kansas  .   . 

[Tom Wyland]

Here's a picture of the geartie method in action.

[Dave Redmon]

Forgot to say that the short section of inner tube inside the bungee loop acts to safeguard the bungee against accidental loss. See my attached photo.

[Jack K]

A ready-made solution of the "strong, light parking band spanning the distance from the backside of the handlebar to the front side of the brake lever" type is available from the ClickStand people. This thing here:   https://www.adventurecycling.org/cyclosource-store/equipment/sp/click-stand-brake-band/
It does cost $2 though and you don't get the satisfaction of recycling used inner-tube rubber into something useful.

These 2 for $.99 silicone bands have also worked well for me, stretched from front wheel valve over downtube back to valve:  https://tinyurl.com/yafyf7fo

-Jack K.
Raleigh, NC

[Patrick Moore]

Back to my original question: will the VO or other spring-loaded stabilizers hold a quite floppy wheel in place when it is holding ~20 lb in lowriders? And do this without having to be set so tight as to compromise normal handling?

Thanks.

[Kiley Demond]

Hi Patrick- It is hard to say for sure due to all the variables: size of the bike, etc., hence height of the load, but my gut says yes, but it also says it will additionally have to do with the kickstand situation. What I do know, is it works on my 60cm Cheviot with 700c wheels, a small basket holding 5-10lbs on Bosco handlebars so the center of gravity for the load is significantly higher than low riders on a smaller bike, but I also have a two-leg kickstand so sufficient weight must be resting on the front wheel for it to work. It actually works better with a heavier load. 

As far as handling goes, I think an even tighter spring would be fine and I really like how the spring reduces twitchiness when the front wheel encounters a rock or root. 

Lastly, you can probably make the VO solution with extra bike parts and a trip to the hardware store. 

-- 

On March 3, 2018 at 11:59:36 AM, Patrick Moore (bert...@gmail.com) wrote:

Back to my original question: will the VO or other spring-loaded stabilizers hold a quite floppy wheel in place when it is holding ~20 lb in lowriders? And do this without having to be set so tight as to compromise normal handling?

Thanks.

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[Ash]

Wanted to share my latest way of the low-tech helmet method.  As soon as I enter the grocery store I loop the chinstrap onto the basket on the right side, click it and let it hang there.   When I need to leave the bike on kickstand, I bring the helmet to the left the top tube and slightly turn the handlebar to the left.  The weight of the from wheel and cargo rest on the helmet.  The solution has been pretty sturdy for up to 20 lb weight in the front basket.  

[Drw]

Upon reading this thread a number of days ago, i bought a flickstand  off ebay  (had to get the atb version to fit atlantis tubing). Got it and installed it today. it isn't pretty (sits right over the  "A" on the Atlantis decal), but man does it make the kickstand/leaning of a bike feel way more solid. Ive tried the front wheel tie down idea before, but inevitably give it up by either losing the bungee or not feeling like it's worth the hassle for shorter stops. 

[Drw]

Oh also HERE is the link to the one i got. looks like the seller has a couple more

[Patrick Moore]

Kiley: many thanks; that's very useful information. Drew: I'd choose a Flickstand, only one day I may put fenders back on the Hon Solo.

I probably have the hardware here in my various "bits and pieces" drawers: large OEM seatpost-mount reflector bracket (IIRC, the boom tube is about 34 mm), 4" to 5" spring -- not too hard to make. 

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 1:10 PM, Kiley Demond <khde...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Patrick- It is hard to say for sure due to all the variables: size of the bike, etc., hence height of the load, but my gut says yes, but it also says it will additionally have to do with the kickstand situation. What I do know, is it works on my 60cm Cheviot with 700c wheels, a small basket holding 5-10lbs on Bosco handlebars so the center of gravity for the load is significantly higher than low riders on a smaller bike, but I also have a two-leg kickstand so sufficient weight must be resting on the front wheel for it to work. It actually works better with a heavier load. 

As far as handling goes, I think an even tighter spring would be fine and I really like how the spring reduces twitchiness when the front wheel encounters a rock or root. 

Lastly, you can probably make the VO solution with extra bike parts and a trip to the hardware store. 

-- 

On March 3, 2018 at 11:59:36 AM, Patrick Moore (bert...@gmail.com) wrote:

Back to my original question: will the VO or other spring-loaded stabilizers hold a quite floppy wheel in place when it is holding ~20 lb in lowriders? And do this without having to be set so tight as to compromise normal handling?

Thanks.

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[Julian Westerhout]

This looks like a very solid option (albeit rather costly):   The SteerStopper --- https://steerstopper.com

Patrick -- this would be the ticket for preventing flops with heavy front loads -- in my experience the VO spring stabilizer will not do that very well with over 10 lb. loads. 

Julian Westerhout

Bloomington, IL 

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for this link, and for the warning about the VO stabilizer. Reviewing all the possibilities, and reluctant to spend much $$ for a device that, while apparently effective, clutters up the top tube, I think I'll use a long toe strap or appropriately long velcro strap.

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[Ian A]

Just to add to my comment of locking the front brake with a toe strap (this works for me as I can really cinch the brake closed hard). If one rests the now immobilized bike at the corner of the saddle against a lamp post, sign, rack etc., it is easy to clip on panniers, and put things in/take out of panniers, front bag etc. 

No stabilizer or flickstand etc is required in this scenario.

The locked brake method works incredibly well, is simple and if one has an old toe strap kicking around, free to try. I trim toe strap to length FWIW. 

IanA

[Kainalu V.]

Yup, I'm surprised at the love of relatively complex gear options when a scrap of velcro, or, as you said, a toe strap, work wonders for this and so much more. Tournequet?, Done. Pant leg band?, Done. Bind that brake lever with a fashionable bandanna?, Ruling the school...
-Kai
BK NY

[Kiley Demond]

I favor the options that require going NOTHING additional at each time it is called into use. Oops, forgot my water bottle. Am I going to pull out a strap or a bungee to dash back in and grab it? No, and I bet you wouldn't either; you would let your wheel flop over. And yet, that not happening was the entire point. 

I used to use the little bungee; it didn’t work consistently and I had to make sure those sharp ends were adjusted away from painted surfaces. What a PITA to do at the library, again at the P.O., the store, to stop while talking to friends. 

It seems one can do a complicated solution once or a simple thing over and over and over. I suspect the former solution will appeal to commuters and those with more stops, and the latter will appeal to those who ride long distances for exercise and stop maybe once or twice. Wheel stabilizers are common on Dutch work bikes and non-existent on cyclocross bikes. 

Both solutions have merit and it is up to the rider to decide what works for him or her and reserve judgment. 

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[Ian A]

On Sunday, March 4, 2018 at 8:52:43 PM UTC-7, Kiley DeMond wrote:
> I favor the options that require going NOTHING additional at each time it is called into use. Oops, forgot my water bottle. Am I going to pull out a strap or a bungee to dash back in and grab it? No, and I bet you wouldn't either; you would let your wheel flop over. And yet, that not happening was the entire point. 
>
>
> I used to use the little bungee; it didn’t work consistently and I had to make sure those sharp ends were adjusted away from painted surfaces. What a PITA to do at the library, again at the P.O., the store, to stop while talking to friends. 
>
>
> It seems one can do a complicated solution once or a simple thing over and over and over. I suspect the former solution will appeal to commuters and those with more stops, and the latter will appeal to those who ride long distances for exercise and stop maybe once or twice. Wheel stabilizers are common on Dutch work bikes and non-existent on cyclocross bikes. 
>
>
> Both solutions have merit and it is up to the rider to decide what works for him or her and reserve judgment. 
>
>

Ah - the toe strap remains in situ - just travels slightly loose to the side of the brake lever on the handlebars effectively always available for use. Admittedly, it works best on flat and/or interrupter levers.

IanA

[Kainalu V.]

This is my strap system control node, I make them by sticking two sticky velcros together. Very useful for almost everything, but yes, not a dedicated system. The thing I worry about with a steering lock system so easily put in place is that it's a steering lock system so easily put in place. If a twig decides to flip the thing down while in a turn, I'm not turning the other way without some trouble, or scarier yet is the notion of a locking headset. Anything mechanical will break or malfunction at some point along the line, that's why I worry so.

Safe travels

-Kai

BK NY

[Deacon Patrick]

I use the ground. I gave up trying to keep my bike upright. Gravity simply won the struggle too many times. Of course, I no longer ride with a front load or basket either. Sardonic grin. I found the ground was always there when I needed it, never in the way when I didn’t, always obliging to hold my bike for me, and hasn’t failed to hold it once. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

[Dave]

For me, it's all about my kiddo riding on a Yepp seat on a rear rack. With my double kickstand and his weight, the front wheel will always pop up into the air. Without the wheel stabilizer, the front end (bosco bullmoose + front basket) would swing around and hit the top tube. Even with a shopsack in the front basket, and decently full hub-area-rack sackville bags, the stabilizer dampens the swing.....

[Ruben Flores]

Hi all, has anyone else ever used one of these locking headsets? or even seen one in person? any thoughts?

Thanks

Ruben in So Cal

[Jay Lonner]

So I ordered one of these Steerstopper gizmos to see whether I could make it work on my Hunq. It arrived last week, and after eyeing it up I don't think it's going to work out for me. My handlebars are low enough that when this in the unlocked position (that is, while riding) the business end would extend past the top of the stem by several centimeters - kind of like a suicide knob on a steering wheel. I'd rather not have such a protrusion in the event of misadventure, although I think it work well with a more Riv-ish high handlebar setup. Anyway, I'm offering this up for $75 shipped (my cost was $118). Never installed or dry fitted, just taken out of the packaging.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

[Nick Payne]

Here's a German cyclist we met while cycling down the Rhone. You can see that his bike - the one on the left - has two flickstands to keep it stable in that situation, with the front stand coming off the bottom of the front rack. He said that his bike - a Dutch touring bike that he purchased as a complete ready-to-tour machine - came with the two stands already installed.

Nick

[Ruben Flores]

Hello all, I think I may be the defacto Western Hemisphere distributor of this locking headset.

Short story I only found one online shop that had it is stock AND would ship to US. 11.00 part with 16.00 shipping I figure I would get two (same 16.00 shipping). When I receive and get installed I will let everyone know how they work.

Crossing my fingers Ruben

[Patrick Moore]

Please do report. I think someone else onlist also bought one very recently, and found it would not fit under the particular stem he had on his bike. But I'd buy one if it works and doesn't require unusual amounts of space -- to install on a Riv custom, too.

The $11 cost versus the $16 shipping reminds me painfully of the Carradice SQR brackets I just ordered: GBP 3 with GBP 12.50 shipping to the USA.

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[Tom Wyland]

I think Ruben is talking about the rotary Shimano locking headset.  I have one on my bike.  It's not a sexy-looking bike accessory, but it's really handy.

Tom

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 6:22:22 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

Please do report. I think someone else onlist also bought one very recently, and found it would not fit under the particular stem he had on his bike. But I'd buy one if it works and doesn't require unusual amounts of space -- to install on a Riv custom, too.

The $11 cost versus the $16 shipping reminds me painfully of the Carradice SQR brackets I just ordered: GBP 3 with GBP 12.50 shipping to the USA.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, Ruben Flores <wooba....@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all, I think I may be the defacto Western Hemisphere distributor of this locking headset.

Short story I only found one online shop that had it is stock AND would ship to US. 11.00 part with 16.00 shipping I figure I would get two (same 16.00 shipping). When I receive and get installed I will let everyone know how they work.

Crossing my fingers Ruben

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 9:03:08 AM UTC-8, Ruben Flores wrote:

Hi all, has anyone else ever used one of these locking headsets? or even seen one in person? any thoughts?

Thanks

Ruben in So Cal

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 2:10:23 PM UTC-8, Tom Wyland wrote:

This is what it looks like. It was installed on my Torker Cargo T. I can't find it in any searches, but that doesn't mean you still can't get get it from one of the bike supply catalogs.

They apparently had these on some older bikes pre-1970s. It's just a spring-loaded pawl that engages like a ratchet and makes turning difficult. It can also lock the handlebars slightly askew... helpful on sloped surfaces.

 http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-locking-headset/rp-prod33075

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 4:56:54 PM UTC-5, Drw wrote:

Where does one find a headset with the anti flop blocking part?

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[Ruben Flores]

Well I have one (actually two) of these in my hand. it replaces the entire upper portion of a headset, I have no idea how it will work.

it has a cup that will be pressed into the frame but does not have a "race", on top of that a bearing cage then a cone nut (the only threaded part in the whole assembly) then a metal ring with all the locking holes then the plastic top cap snap in.

Seems very odd, but as my long time riding buddy said "it's Shimano, it will work perfectly to it's design. You may not like the design but some engineers studied this forever"

Ruben with his fingers still crossed

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 9:03:08 AM UTC-8, Ruben Flores wrote: