AHH, Romulus, or Saluki for Randonneuring?

[Frank]

As a prospective randonneur but one with little experience with rides
over 400k, I am planning to dedicate one bike to next year’s series.
Recognizing the breadth of on-the-road experience on this list, I am
interested in opinions about the “better” choice between the Saluki,
AHH, and the Romulus. Is comfort the driving factor, or are there
other, more subtle criteria that also warrant consideration? I
believe that any of the three will perform just fine, but I will be
setting just one up for brevets and would like to get it as right as
possible. I own all three, all are comfortable, but each is set up a
little differently. Thanks for any input.

[Esteban]

Well, it likely depends on your preference and the set-ups.
Regardless, here're my little opinions:

If you want a traditional randonneuring look with 650B, and a
guaranteed plush ride, use the Saluki. Comfort, FTW!

The AHH would work great as well, I'm sure.

I wouldn't hesitate to take my Romulus on such a ride, after raising
the bars (mine are below the saddle) and putting Jack Browns on
there.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

[Dave Craig]

For long days in the saddle, the bike that fits the best is the best
choice.

For me, that would mean my Atlantis!

Dave

> > little differently. Thanks for any input.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Mike]

I've been randonneuring for 2yrs now with the longest brevet completed
being a 600k (twice). The first year I rode my Rambouillet which
worked fine. I didn't have a front bag at that time so I carried all
my gear in a Carradice Barley bag. This set-up worked well enough. For
tires I used Paselas (700x32). The bike really performed well. By the
time my second year rolled around I had my Hilsen and used that. I
also acquired a Berthoud HB bag which I mounted on a Mark's rack. This
set-up also worked well, especially the HB bag. Next year my plan is
to do another super randonneur series and the Cascade 1200k. I'm
actually thinking of using my Rambouillet but I have plenty of time to
figure it out. I guess the main reason is I'm thinking of using 28s
(Challenge tires or T-Serves).

All the bikes you mentioned would work well. There are so many
variables that go into a successful brevet. I've seen people do
brevets on fixed gear bikes, 26" wheeled bikes, carbon bikes, Surlys,
bents and with all kinds of different types of luggage for carrying
gear. I even saw two guys do 100k populaires on unicycles! I've
thought at times of getting a dedicated randonneuring bike such as the
Boulder Bicycle or something custom but my Rivendells have worked fine
and I feel like they're just a little more versatile, especially the
Hilsen. And yes, I realize that if I went custom I could get a bike
even more versatile than the Hilsen.

Find a bike that fits well and can accommodate tires at least up to 28
and I think you'll be doing okay. Since the Rommulus is no longer
available from Rivendell it's really just a matter of you choosing the
tire size if you go with a Rivendell. I should mention that I've
ridden with folks who have completed brevets on Riv customs, Hilsens,
Rambouillets, and Atlanti.

You might want to consider just getting out and doing some brevets on
the bike you have although it sounds like you've already done this.
Definitely don't be shy about calling Rivendell with questions about
their bikes.

--mike

On Aug 30, 8:31 am, Frank <pguil...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 08:59 -0700, Esteban wrote:
> I wouldn't hesitate to take my Romulus on such a ride, after raising
> the bars (mine are below the saddle) and putting Jack Browns on
> there.

I would have suggested Grand Bois 700x28 or 700x30s. The Romulus was
really designed for a 28mm wide tire.

[Larry Powers]

FWIW, I have several seasons using my Rambouillet as a brevet bike.  Overall I am very happy with the bike and would probably use this bike for the foreseeable future.  I am a slow rider so I spend quite a bit of time in the saddle and have been comfortable on the bike.  My tire of choice has been Ruffy Tuffy's.  The popular opinion is that wider and more supple tires are more comfortable and just as fast.  While I would like to ride 32mm tires I have to remind myself that the 28mm tires are significantly wider then the 23mm tires that most riders use.  I have also found that non belted tires are too flat prone for me.

I will admit to having a bias towards 700c wheels.  I ride a 62cm frame and do not think a frame of this size looks good with 650b wheels.  I also feel that because 700c wheels are a standard size and if there is a problem with a wheel or tire you have a much better chance of having it fixed or aquiring a replacement on your route then you do with a 650b wheel or tire.  Plenty of people use 650b and you just have to more self sufficient and ready to handle problems.  These problems are rare and probably not as important as I sometimes think.

Of the three you have I think all would be great randonneuring bikes.  The AHH is a 700c bike that can handle large tires and fenders, this would be my choice.  The Romulus might be the better choice if you want more of the a go fast bike and like 28mm or small tires.  The Saluki is also a good bike if you are a 650b fan.  Rivendell makes great steel frames that are durable and comfortable to ride. 

The most important factor is which of these would you be more comfortable riding for long periods of times.  Is there anything about one that would make it more comfortable then another? 

I think you are smart setting up a bike just for randonneuring.  I find that a full seasons of brevets and trainning rides takes alot out of a bike.  I set my Rambouillet up for brevets and train on my QB or my Soma Smoothie ES.  This allows me to keep the Rambouillet in great shape for the brevets.

Good Luck

Larry Powers
PBP 2007

"just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does a double back flip" - John Hiatt



> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:31:17 -0700
> Subject: [RBW] AHH, Romulus, or Saluki for Randonneuring?
> From: pgui...@gmail.com
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

[Tim McNamara]

On Aug 30, 2009, at 5:14 PM, Larry Powers wrote:

> I will admit to having a bias towards 700c wheels. I ride a 62cm
> frame and do not think a frame of this size looks good with 650b
> wheels.

Then let me give you a chuckle with my 26" wheels and a 60 cm frame:

http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html

As you can see, the frame is about 4 cm too short. Grant probably
wouldn't sell me a frame sized like this now; the stem has been
replaced with a Technomic Deluxe to get the bars up higher but it
looks goofy. But I can't see that stuff when I'm riding it and it is
my favorite bike in terms of how it feels.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2009-08-30 at 19:12 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> On Aug 30, 2009, at 5:14 PM, Larry Powers wrote:
>
> > I will admit to having a bias towards 700c wheels. I ride a 62cm
> > frame and do not think a frame of this size looks good with 650b
> > wheels.
>
> Then let me give you a chuckle with my 26" wheels and a 60 cm frame:
>
> http://www2.bitstream.net/~timmcn/tour2000.html

You think those wheels are small? Ha!
http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/images/models/AMGT_Lrg.jpg

[Chicken Sandwich]

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Larry Powers<lapow...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>My tire of choice has been Ruffy Tuffy's.

I rode them on a 600K and would not do so again. The rolling
resistance was noticeably higher than the Grand Bois I have previously
used. Granted I did not have any flats with the Ruffy Tuffies, but
I'd rather change flats on a tire with very low rolling resistance
than have to work harder against my tires for 375 miles.

You might say I am in the Vintage Bicycle Quarterly mindset when it
comes for what tires to use for randonneuring. But ultimately it's
just my $0.02.

Jim
Austin, TX

[CycloFiend]

This is what my father would call "a high class problem"...

As others have said, they'd all work, and as with any GP-designed bike, work
pretty darned well. When I was prepping for my first 200K, I realized that
my Quickbeam made the most sense as it was my most comfortable frame. (At
that time it was my only Rivendell.)

One of the reasons that I purchased my Hilsen was to use it for brevets.
Around the SF Bay Area, the brevet series starts in late January, which
typically involves rain and wet roads. Running a bike with no fenders is
(IMO) foolhardy, not to mention disrespectful of those who have to ride
behind you under such conditions. The Hilsen, as I'm sure you've noticed,
can handle any fender and tire combo you are likely to come up with.

The Hilsen also struck me as ideal for use with the Mark's Rack. Currently,
I have one set up aft, as a stabilizer for the Country Bag. I've played
around with my Zugster (Front) Rando Bag on the Quickbeam, and could easily
set it up on the Hilsen, either swapping the Mark's to the front or by
adding another one for longer rides.

On a 400K, you'll have to consider lighting as well. I'd like to
whole-heartedly plug the Gino Light Mount by Paul Components as a good way
to set up a mid-fork light.

Because you're potentially hanging fenders and racks and lights on the bike,
I'd lean towards the frame that allows you to do that in an elegant manner -
i.e. the Saluki or Hilsen.

The thing about the Riv models is that they lend themselves to a lot of
tinkering and refinement to come up with a bike that perfectly suits any
number of applications. Another "high class problem"...

- J

--
Jim Edgar
Cyclo...@earthlink.net

"That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the
anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace."

William Gibson - "All Tomorrow's Parties"

[James Warren]

But mine (a Ram actually) rides much better with Jack Brown greens. Mounting those turned a great bike into an even greater bike.

[Larry Powers]

In 2007 I road the Grend Bois 30mm tire on my Rambouillet, they fit but barely.  I got my first flat ever on a brevet using these tires but overall I liked them.  For PBP I was able to get a pair of 28mm Grand Bois tires.  4 flats and one of the tires ended up in a garbage can on route.  I finished the ride with an old Ruffy Tuffy that I was carrying for a spare on the rear.  This may not have been a fair test due to the weather and the roads (which seem to have a lot of small sharp stone shards).  But 4 flats in the rains really is not fun.  I may try the tires again but many people have also reported these to be flat prone.  They also may not be the correct tire for a 210 pound rider.

Larry Powers

 
"just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does a double back flip" - John Hiatt


 

> Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:44:13 -0500
> Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH, Romulus, or Saluki for Randonneuring?
> From: brons2...@gmail.com
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

[Bruce]

The AHH and Saluki are the same bike, (as are the Romulus and Rambouillet) so it's really a choice between two.  I ride a 50 cm Saluki (with GB 35 mm Oursons) and a 52 cm Ram (with 559 x 37 Paselas), and the geometry is different enough  to matter despite both bikes having the same TT length and about the same stand over. For touring, the Saluki is more comfortable for me, and is the one I'll use in mid October for a 3 day solo cruise on a section of the Mississippi River Trail.  

---

From: Larry Powers <lapow...@hotmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:28:57 AM

Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH, Romulus, or Saluki for Randonneuring?

[Patrick in VT]

On Aug 30, 11:31 am, Frank <pguil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I own all three, all are comfortable, but each is set up a
>little differently

set up the AHH as a dedicated rando bike with fenders and whatever
your rando preferences are in terms of load carrying.

set up the romulus for fast, hard training rides in between brevets
and maybe even ride it on some fair weather centuries, 200k's, etc.
you don't need to carry anything more than a burrito wrap under the
saddle for a 200k under nice skies. I find having a sportier road
bike to train with to be very beneficial for randonneuring.

set up the Saluki as the typical all-rounder/country bike.

[Mike]

Wow, I just now noticed that the original poster stated he owns all
three bikes. Doh! To the original poster, sorry. As Jim mentioned this
really is a high class probelm. You certainly have plenty of time to
experiment with these bikes. Maybe keep us posted as to how it all
turns out.

--mike

[Esteban]

Its interesting to re-read this thread and think about how Grant's
designs are so versatile. When I have Jack Browns on my romulus, it
turns into a great all-rounder. But I prefer my 650B Protovelo for
longer rides. But both bikes can do the same thing - I just try to
set them up differently.

So, I like to run the Romulus as a "road bike," with 28s and skinny
Honjos in the winter, but It works great for about anything not
needing racks and bags.

[Frank]

Thanks for all of the input (and thanks to Jim for not pushing the QB
too hard). I recognize that I do in fact have a high-class problem,
which isn't really a problem at all. The question is effectively
unanswerable, which is a testament to the Rivendell design approach.
I'm going to dedicate the Saluki to brevets, leave the Hilsen as-is
for most everything else, and keep the Romulus as a fast ride-with-the-
neighbors-race-team-on-Sunday bike. As an aside, someone noted that
the AHH and the Saluki are "the same bike", which while factually
correct, doesn't dovetail to my experience. I have a 62cm Saluki and
a 63cm Hilsen, and they feel quite different, though the set-ups and
'portant measurements are nearly identical. I like them both, and
have ridden each on a one-day double century at least twice. Perhaps
it's as simple as 650B / Hetre vs. 700c / Jack Brown, but they do
present subtle yet distinct differences. My kids have already claimed
them for college, the 6 year old opting for the Saluki, and the 9 year
old for Homer (another benefit of steel - they should still be in fine
shape by 2019). Now I need to figure out lights.

Thanks again.

On Aug 30, 8:14 pm, CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Cyclofi...@earthlink.net

[Solomander]

I'm curious what wheel/tire set up all of you rando guys use. I have
36 spoke wheels and 35mm Paselas on my Hilsen. My original thought
was to have a robust build that would be good for dirt roads and light
touring. While smooth, I do find my bike to be a little bit poky,
especially going up hills. My Hilsen is usually about 1 mph slower
than my road bike. I have difficulty imagining riding it for really
long distances. Would a 32 spoke wheelset make a big difference, or a
32 mm tire? I am not anxious to buy another wheelset, especially
because I have been drooling over the Salsa Fargo as a potential
acquisition.

Joel

[JimD]

For the last year that I had my Romulus it wore Jack Brown greens and
Textro 'wide mouth'
brakes.

I weigh 190 lbs and the wider tires are great on our less than ideal
roads.

When I got my Riv custom my friend Brian bought the Romulus and he is
riding
'fat' tires on it too. The custom wears most Jack Browns most all the
time.

When Rivendell suggested that we 'get more air' I took them at their
word.

If our roads were smoother I might go to 28's but the fatter tires
seem about right to me.
-JimD

[Angus]

Joel,

I have 32mm Paselas (non-TG) on a Rambouillette, they feel faster than
35 (non-TG) and 37mm (TG) Paselas and I usually end up going slightly
faster too.

I bought the 37mm (TG) Paselas for touring.

I don't believe a 32 vs a 36 spoke wheel would be noticeable...not to
me anyway.

Angus

[Bob Cooper]

Just an aside from a guy who doesn’t do a lot of brevets, but a few
and some touring and some dirt and some rain and some snow:

Most bikes are like most lenses (photography analogy) in that they
work well under most conditions. It’s when the unusual conditions
arrive, when the going gets tough, when night falls, or the rains
start or the road turns to dirt, or the hills get so steep that
keeping the front wheel on the road is a serious consideration that
specialized bikes or all-rounders come into their own.

I was on a dirt road the other day that was so rough that I walked
about half a mile of it, because my teeth were chattering in my head
and my rear wheel would not stay down.

So, at that moment, I was wishing for a bigger tire with lower
pressure.

These were 25-28 mm in width with about 85-95 pounds-per-square-inch.

This was on a club ride. We were following a map, but no one knew we
would encounter this patch of dirt (about a mile, I think).

Regards,

Bob

[Patrick in VT]

On Aug 31, 4:36 pm, Solomander <Soloman...@aol.com> wrote:
> I'm curious what wheel/tire set up all of you rando guys use.  

i don't think you'd notice a difference in spokes, but i certainly
think you'd notice a difference if you went with 28mm or 30mm paselas
instead of 35s.

for me, conditions rarely justify a tire larger than 30mm - especially
on brevets. and i'd say about 95% of the seasoned randonneurs in my
region run tires between 25-28.

[Larry Powers]

I have a theory that the faster you are the narrower your tire can be.  If you are finishing in 60 to 80% of the alloted time then your bike doesn't need to be as comfortable.  If you are finishing in 80 to 100% of the time you are spending much more time in the saddle and the bike better be set up just right or you will end up hurting.
 
The theory probably doesn't really hold up as I am as slow at they come and I have been fine on my Rambouillet with 28mm Ruffy Tuffy's.  That is probably a testament to the Riv designed frame with slacker angles and steel tubes since the Ruffy Tuffy is not the softest tire out there.

Larry Powers
 
"just when you think that you've been gyped the bearded lady comes and does a double back flip" - John Hiatt


 

> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 06:15:38 -0700

> Subject: [RBW] Re: AHH, Romulus, or Saluki for Randonneuring?

> From: psh...@drm.com
> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

[Esteban]

I like the camera analogy. I also think that if you want to be
comfortable, then fatter tires will help with that. Someone at some
point called it "Hilsen-izing" a Ram/Rom...it works well, except there
aren't the braze-ons when you need 'em:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25671211@N02/3683083953/in/set-72157615808228445/

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

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