Stovetop Espresso (moka pot) tips please

[Deacon Patrick]

I have a Bialetti Kitty 4 cup I am not smart enough to make good coffee with. It seems very persnickety — which isn’t a good thing because I am persnickety. Sardonic grin.

Tips?

With abandon,
Patrick

www.OurHolyConception.org
www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

[Jeremy Tavan]

As a dedicated Italophile, I find myself wishing I could love moka pot (macchinetta) coffee. I've tried. A lot. But the sad truth is that they just don't make great coffee compared to other methods. If you want espresso, you can't substitute a moka pot for a proper macchina. If you want strong coffee in a longer format than espresso, the Aeropress just makes a better cup than the moka pot does, by a mile. (Just don't follow the temperature and dilution instructions in the package.) More volume than that? Pour-over (individual mugs or a Chemex for multiples). Then I've been getting into cold brew recently, and that's much better with ice and cream than moka pot coffee. 

I own a bunch of moka pots that collect dust these days - the only time I make moka pot coffee is when I'm visiting Italy and every rental apartment has one or three on the shelf, and no other brewing equipment.

Good luck, and if you have any success I'd love to hear about it,

/Jeremy

[sameness]

Dial in your grind. Not as fine as espresso, not as coarse as pour over. Totally depends on your grinder, but be prepared to experiment.

Don't pack the grounds too tight. Fill the... whatever-it's-called to overflowing, then scrape flat across. I use my finger.

Make sure it's really cranked down and closed tight before you start brewing.

Use medium heat, just to the point where the flame is fully covering the bottom but not licking up the sides. Slower brew is better brew.

Leave the lid open to check your progress.

Once the coffee is about halfway done brewing and you're starting to see the (admittedly paltry) crema, close the lid, turn off the heat and let it hiss out under its own internal pressure.

Expect more water than you'd like to be left in the bottom of reservoir when you're done. Just the way it is.

Don't clean. Like, kinda... never. Pour out the leftover water, give the filter deal a quick rinse so there are no grounds, turn upside down to dry, and that's it.

I wouldn't even touch the insides until and unless somebody in the house makes you, and even then I'd only give it a quick swipe to remove a little of the film.

If you are forced to clean it by said somebody, don't use soap, ever ever.

As Jeremy said, it will never make a proper espresso, but it's excellent straight as surrogate strong coffee, or add a little boiled water for an Americano.

Love 'em.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[eflayer]

Not trying to be the typical nay saying internet guy, but why futz? Aeropress your cares away! No mutz, no futz.

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 6:30:59 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Deacon Patrick]

Why'd I bail on Aeropress when it makes a great cup of coffee? Easy. Plastic. It bubbled. Aeropress replaced it, saying they've updated it. Plastic ain't for me.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Jim M.]

I'll second Jeff's instructions. The grind is important. Don't tamp like you would with an espresso maker. Fill the funnel and smooth the top. I use a sort of medium low flame, one that doesn't quite reach the edges of the pot. And I'll disagree with the others and say well made Bialetti coffee is superior to Aeropress.

jim m

[Tim Butterfield]

That is an issue I had never heard of.  Very strange.  I have had a couple of Aeropress in nearly constant use since about 2006 and have had zero issues with either one of them.  They are still going strong.  If you wanted metal, I guess you have a stainless version of an Aeropress fabricated.  It's not like they are super complicated.  About the only non-metal part of that might be the replaceable rubber press/squeegee.

Tim

[sameness]

I don't think a moka pot is a better delivery system than an Aeropress per se, just depends on what you want outta your cup of coffee.

I'm not a huge fan of the bright and the floral and the nuanced typical of $20-a-pound 3rd Wave beans, and which an Aeropress handles with aplomb.

I'm back to the days of the dark and the oily and the admittedly kinda bitter, and though I prefer coffee coffee to espresso, drip makes my head spin and my chest pound (dunno).

Any coffee is better than no coffee, and more coffee is better than less coffee.

Coffee mug
Gonna clear away the haze
Liquid proof
That I can win this race

Coffee mug
The grip that keeps me tall
My interlink
Keeps me questing ALL

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[bo richardson]

is the bialatti stainless?
my stainless is out in the shed
i always thought i could taste the aluminum
in the aluminum espresso pots
i love my aeropress.
i think the rocket scientist who invented the aeropress
shopped hard for the correct plastic.

[sameness]

The classic Bialetti moka pot is aluminum. While I have never tasted the aluminum, the idea behind not cleaning much or at all is to season the interior with coffee oils to mitigate this effect.

Bialetti and others make stainless moka pots. Never owned one, but I have been served from one plenty of times. I honestly couldn't tell any difference in the taste, though it seemed by totally unscientific observation that it brewed a little faster.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

[Christopher Murray]

Aeropress had a problem with the plastic sometime about 2-3 years ago. The plastic developed stress cracks. They changed the plastic and sent replacements free of charge. This is the dilemma with plastic. They thought the bad plastic was good until they found out it was bad. Now the new plastic is good but what will they think tomorrow??? I have one and love it but I get the anti-plastic thing 100%.

Cheers,
Chris

[Christopher Murray]

The biggest issue with these is heat control.

Tips:

1: boil the water separately and pour into the reservoir. You have to be careful here. I put the base on a towel, loosely screw the top on, and only pick it up with towel for the final tightening.

2: use low-medium heat with the lid open

3: remove from heat before the coffee is done. I find about 75% done works for me.

4: experiment to find the grind that works for you

5: if you don't like the thick gritty coffee try pouring through a paper filter in a ceramic pour over brewer.

Cheers!
Chris

[Garth]

DP , maybe you just like Moka pot coffee, no biggie. How many ways are there to make coffee , and to whom , and oh btw, is there a "supposed to" when it come to coffee, let alone anything ? Nay ! You know, despite hand washing dishes every day of my life, I never have yet ever done them the same way twice. I have never breathed the same way twice either.... hmmmmm.

I knew nothing much of a Bialetti pot when I got it , and it just so happens I love the coffee from it. A gòod cup of joe for me has deposits on the bottom of the cup. I cannot say there is a secret to it, and I guess for some that may be the secret. Some cook by the letter, some cook by what "looks good enough".

The Bialetti Aluminum is anodised , so there is no leeching. I have never washed my pot as in soap and scrub, just rinse and when dry maybe wipe the inside with a towel once in a great while. If there were Al to taste I would have tasted it from the get go. Ironically, water boiled in SS tastes quite awful to me. But what, that is supposedly better because someone says so ? ......sure .... I am going to the beach house in Kansas tomorrow ...."they" say the beach in Kansas this time of year is "safe" since there are no sharks in Kansas ! Ahahahahahaahah !

[ascpgh]

Couldn't help it: https://youtu.be/w-ia13f72-4

Andy Cheatham

PIttsburgh

[Eric Floden]

I keep thinking of this as l read this thread...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=03N4_pElwOA

A cup pf my famous Java...

Eric Floden

Peterborough

[Deacon Patrick]

Jeff and Jim,

Nailed it! Grind is 10 notches finer on our Lido grinder than for our pour-over. Med-low heat (starting with cold water). Remove from flame half way up the spout (before any sputtering). Deep, rich, smooth, stove-top espresso! Like a good whisky (which almost exclusively comes from Islay these days), it is an experience in contradictions: smashingly bold and strong with wondrous layers and tones beneath. Thank you for helping me iron out the kinks!

None but me like it so far in our family, so it doesn't solve any of that issue. But I'm now smarter than the moka pot! And that, for me, says a LOT! Grin.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Brad]

About 20 years ago an Italian co-worker taught me to make coffee with a moka pot and her instructions were exactly the same as Jeff's, right down to never ever cleaning the pot! 

Brad

Queens

[Deacon Patrick]

I should also mention I'm using a medium roast with nutty and chocolate notes.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Trenker]

Just make coffee. You don't need to purchase a certain brand name. You are trying to buy an experience based on advertising and what random strangers on the internet recommend according to what they bought. But you probably have everything you need there already.

[Will]

You can dink around with coffee forever. The best brew in my experience is vacuum. 200 degree water, just off the boil, fills the bowl, deeply infuses the grounds, and voila...

You can use very fine grind and brew what is essentially espresso, or perc-ground and have regular.

Watch ebay for an old steel Nicro, make sure the seal is in good condition, and you'll have liquid gold. For example:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R4.TR11.TRC1.A0.H1.Xnicro.TRS0&_nkw=nicro+coffee+pot&_sacat=0

 Will (who roasts his beans weekly... and rides an Atlantis (Riv content))

[Shawn Granton]

I've been using a moka pot pretty much daily for the past ten years. I got a stainless steel one from IKEA (horrors) back then and still use that same one. (Mine was made in Italy, the newer ones offered by the Swedish retailer are Chinese made.) And turn the other way, but I clean that pot daily...with soap. (HORRORS!)

Anyways, a lot of good tips have been given. Here's a few of my tips:

• I do pre-boil the water (and also use some water to warm up the mug.) Doing this makes the pot work faster, lessening the risk of "cooking" the coffee atop the burner.
• Do not pack/tamp the grounds in the basket. I gently tap the side of the basket as I fill it so the grounds settle. I fill it until it's slightly heaping, but I don't wipe off the top.
• Use darker and oilier beans. This goes against the current coffeenista consensus of using lighter beans and "tasting the floral notes". A moka pot isn't for that, save them for your Aeropress or pour over or what have you. The one benefit of the moka pot is you can use lesser, cheaper beans and still come out with a decent cup.

And to bring this back to bikes and coffee, my favorite piece of camp/bike coffee kit is an Esbit moka pot that I picked up a few years back. It's an attention getter! -Shawn

[Surlyprof]

I'm pretty persnickety as well and the best stovetop "machine" I've ever used is the Alessi 9090/6.  I got it originally because I had the chance to buy it when we toured Alessi's in-house museum in Omenga, Italy.  It was factory discounted and I was amused by the fact that the initial prototype was a toilet paper roll with two pencils stuck in the side.  In the real one, you pack the coffee in, add the water and heat until the water's turned to coffee in the top.  I have to admit that I was surprised how expensive it actually is (cheaper on Amazon) but it is 18/10 stainless steel, makes great coffee, operates easily and, since it is a piece of design history (Compass D'Oro 1970-79 and part of the MOMA's permanent collection), you can still get parts for it.  I think the gasket is the only thing that can wear out so I bought one but have never had to replace it in 12 years of sporadic use.  Here's the Alessi link:  http://store.alessi.com/usa/en-gb/catalog/detail/9090-espresso-coffee-maker/9090  and the Amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Alessi-9090-6-Richard-Sapper/dp/B000HWY2QE

John 

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 6:30:59 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Andreas]

Here are my steps:

Roast green beans, cool immediately after roasting (Just deposit them outside in NNE)

Aerate for 6 hours

airtight container overnight

Grind as recommended here - on a Baratza Virtuosa I use setting 20 (espresso is 14, french press is 32 for me)

Use cold water, we have a spring in the yard - so I use water from there

Fill funnel, do not compress coffee

Put stove on L/M so steam will saturate, water or coffee should not boil

I only rinse it with water for cleaning

Works for me, ymmv

Just like it takes over 250,000 miles to become a reasonable cyclist, it takes 1,000 tries with a Bialetti to make a good coffee. :-)

Andreas

[Patch T]

I got a lovely stainless steel mokapot off Etsy recently. They have a pretty cool and wide-ranged selection of used and vintage mokas. Some very pricey, some not.

Used to use Bialetti; loved it, still have it around, but trying to cut aluminum out of my life :) I do like flushing my stainless steel pot with just water and a touch of vinegar here and there.

I met a gal from Sardinia once who explained, and showed me, that right when the espresso is finished, you take a spoonful or so or sugar, about the same amount of the hot espresso, and mix vigorously in a bowl to make a foamy, espressoey syrup of sorts, which is then spooned into the cup. Alas, I can never quite approximate what she did. Best cup of coffee I ever had, likely due to the romance of it all. Sigh.

Love,

Patch

On Monday, December 26, 2016 at 6:30:59 PM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[lum gim fong]

One cup of coffee and my day is ruined.
Jittery, shallow breathing, and mental confusion, fatigue. Feel awful. All I can do is just crawling to bed and sleep it off. I can handle soda and tea caffeine fine though. Odd.

[sameness]

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 9:52:54 AM UTC-8, lum gim fong wrote:

Jittery, shallow breathing, and mental confusion, fatigue. Feel awful.  All I can do is just crawling to bed and sleep it off.

I feel the same way up until my third cup!