26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Eric Marth]

Hi all — I'm comparing 26.8 seatposts and their varying setback. I'd like the saddle on my MB-2 to be further back. 

Does anyone have any firsthand experience with how a Thompson and Nitto S83 compare in terms of setback? I've been searching around and can't find any definitive measurements. 

I'm currently running a Suntour XC Pro seatpost and it looks like either of the above will give me more setback than I currently have.  

I've tried and very much did not like the IRD wayback seatpost, it slips. Others have reported the same. Don't buy this seatpost! 

The vintage SR MTE-100 is good, solid, I run one on my Appaloosa. Would rather try something different. Plus, they're hard to find! 

[Jay P]

This thread on ibob has some info on this subject:

https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/88zkSC-6JU4/m/ZKwO1smGHwAJ

Jay P.

Reno, NV

[Nick Payne]

Can't say anything about the Thompson post, but I have both the XC Pro and S83, and the setback is the same on both within a millimetre or two (that's to the front of the saddle rail clamp, which is what determines how far back you can set the saddle).

Some of the Kalloy UNO posts look to have a fair amount of setback, and come in 26.8. e.g.

https://www.modernbike.com/kalloy-uno-602-seatpost-26.8-x-350mm-silver

https://www.modernbike.com/kalloy-sp-359-micro-top-seatpost-26.8-x-350mm-silver

Nick

[Elisabeth Sherwood]

+1 for the Kalloy Uno 602.  Nothing glamorous, but they just work! (and they come in silver...)

Liz

Washington, DC

[Eric Marth]

Jay — Thanks for the link! Some good suggestions there. 

Nick — Thanks for the S83 intel. I have one in my parts bin and held it up side by side and you're right! I'll check out the Kalloy, I must admit I was looking past them in my searches. 

Liz — As always, coming through for me! Liz, you have given me the most practical, real-world help of anyone on this forum! Thanks, looks like the price makes the barrier to experimenting pretty low. 

[Garth]

If that photo Eric is of the bike in question, well sheesh, that saddle ..... it's already so far forward in the seatpost !  MB-2's have a minimum of a 73d STA, so that only adds to the forward position in relation to the BB. A Brooks saddle with it's limited rails + the steeper 73d STA angle = you're hamstrung from the beginning in your ability to move the saddle back enough relative to the BB. I forget the Trig formula but 1d of STA is substantial in terms of saddle height fore-aft position relative to the BB, somewhere in the range 10-15mm I think, depending on saddle height. The SR setback post is a way to get back further, though not necessarily enough to compensate for the basic design limitations of frame and saddle. A saddle with longer rails could account for 15-20mm of setback alone though.  

For reference, a Ritchey Comp 2-bolt 26.8 post(sold in Europe) for example, has 25mm of setback. A Nitto S-83 has 23mm, an SP-72 Jaguar 25mm. Your average Kalloy post has 20-24mm, though their clamps are often small fore-aft relative to high quality posts.  Thomson bent posts offer a meager 16mm. The Suntour posts were usually 23mm-ish, give or take. Hardly worth buying a new post for a few mm's.  In the absence of a wayback post, you're better off changing the saddle to something with much longer rails for that frame, if you're not deathly attached to a Brooks. If you are, then you'll need very long setback post like the SR, or if you have slippery a IRD post on hand, heck, try some anti-friction paste inside the serrations. Has anyone who had them slip contact IRD or even Riv about it ? They can't all be wonky all the time for everybody. 

(Ibob group can't be viewed unless you're a member of the particular group.) 

[Eric Marth]

Just should add that the Suntour XC Pro and Superbe seatposts are so nice. If you have a chance to run one I recommend it. You can adjust the clamp and saddle tilt independently with two separate bolts. Requires less finesse than other posts. 

[Eric Marth]

Thanks, Garth. Yeah, that saddle is all the way back in the picture! Believe it or not. 

I appreciate the specs here on individual setbacks, awesome! I've thought about swapping out the saddle altogether, that's a logical workaround. I have a Selle Anatomica with the long rails. Very comfy but I just don't like the way they look! I understand that's illogical to some. And the new SA saddles have that huge, chintzy metallic plastic badges at the back. 

I haven't tried friction paste but I'm not trying another IRD post. When I had trouble I talked to both Will at Rivendell and Jim Porter at Merry Sales/Soma/IRD over the phone about my trouble. No issues getting it returned. With others having the same slippage problems I'm done fooling with them. 

[Garth]

That's a bummer about the IRD post, there's nothing worse than a wonky post ! 

Yeah, a SA saddle sounds like it would work for you Eric. I looked at their saddles just now and noticed the aluminum framed versions don't have a badge on the back, the name is engraved in the frame in small subtle letters. Does that look better to you ?  

[Eric Marth]

Garth, it's the whole overall look of an SA that I'm not down with. The badge makes it even worse. I have an older X-series saddle in black, no badge. I'll give it a try on the Bridgestone. 

[Keith Paugh]

Nick - Hot tip! The price is right too. Thanks!

k.

On Apr 13, 2023, at 7:28 AM, Eric Marth <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Garth, it's the whole overall look of an SA that I'm not down with. The badge makes it even worse. I have an older X-series saddle in black, no badge. I'll give it a try on the Bridgestone. 

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 9:07:29 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

That's a bummer about the IRD post, there's nothing worse than a wonky post ! 

Yeah, a SA saddle sounds like it would work for you Eric. I looked at their saddles just now and noticed the aluminum framed versions don't have a badge on the back, the name is engraved in the frame in small subtle letters. Does that look better to you ?  

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Eric, I’m so glad you started this thread. I went through the same odyssey a few years ago and tried the IRD seatpost and it slipped like crazy. Riv took it back and stopped selling it because it was a widespread problem. I want a bit more setback on my Platy so I’m going to take Liz’s recommendation.

Liz - thank you SO much! I was led to believe during my search that I was out of luck because most seatposts come in the-27-whatever size and not our uncommon 26.8. Can this seat post really work well at only $15?!? 

Much thanks,

Leah

[Eric Marth]

Leah, I'm happy to be helpful! I'm also sorry to hear you tried and had a bad experience with the IRD seatpost. I was excited when it was released because it seemed like it would solve the 26.8 lots of setback problem. But that seatpost is just a problem and a setback in and of itself. 

Just as a note on the Kalloy post: it lists 24mm of offset. Compared to a Nitto S83 at 23mm that's hardly a noticeable difference. I can get that extra millimeter if I forego underwear. 

I will again endorse the SR MTE-100. They're hard to find, they're pretty ugly but they're stout and have tons of setback. I did have trouble getting that quick release to stay put so I replaced mine with a long 8mm bolt and a nylock nut. 

[Garth]

FWIW Leah, The Kalloy post that Riv includes with frames already has 25mm of setback and the model 602 has 24mm. They don't make one with any more than that, and some less. A few mm's plus or minus is hardly worthy of a new post.There's very few posts with more setback than 25mm in any diameter, in 26.8 even less. Seatpost specs is something I took a deep dive in when trying to find suitable 26.8 posts. It isn't pretty. Life is so much easier with 27.2 posts !

[Brian Turner]

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve raised my fist in the air and cursed the decision of the 26.8 seatpost.

On Apr 13, 2023, at 1:30 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

FWIW Leah, The Kalloy post that Riv includes with frames already has 25mm of setback and the model 602 has 24mm. They don't make one with any more than that, and some less. A few mm's plus or minus is hardly worthy of a new post.There's very few posts with more setback than 25mm in any diameter, in 26.8 even less. Seatpost specs is something I took a deep dive in when trying to find suitable 26.8 posts. It isn't pretty. Life is so much easier with 27.2 posts !

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[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I just checked out the Ritchey 2 bolt post and was disappointed to see the two bolts are for extra retention, not adjustment. A two bolt seatpost, like the S83 or the Thompson, that uses the two bolts to adjust fore and aft angle are the only seatposts that should be able to be called 2 bolts. So the Ritchey gets a booo. Kalloys are fine posts for a great price, but 1 bolt is sad for both retention and adjustability…

S83 por vida

-Kai

[lconley]

27.2 Seat Tube Reamer + Nitto S84:

 

Laing

[JAS]

Eric, I had a similar set-back problem with my Platypus.  Since I prefer Selle Anatomica saddles, I ordered a new one for Platy in the pretty light tan color only to discover that the new ones with aluminum rails have a shorter rail length than the steel rails.  I wanted to use my Nitto S-83 seatpost and couldn't get the set-back I needed so after a chat with Grant regarding various seat post and saddle combinations, I returned it to SA for the original style (no badge).  A proper set-back was accomplished. 

Although my solution was the SA saddle, how your bike looks and feels to you is critical!  I hope you find a pleasing solution.  

Joyce

[Eric Marth]

Yeah, Laing, the S84 is the ultimate! I have on on my Hillborne and quite like it. My Hillborne is older and takes a 27.2

[Eric Marth]

Thanks, Joyce! I'm glad you could get the proper setback with your Platy.

I'm now pondering the reamer + S84 combination... I sure wish they weren't so expensive!

[Leah Peterson]

Laing, are you offering to perform this service for us helpless Listers? 😬

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 13, 2023, at 3:03 PM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

27.2 Seat Tube Reamer + Nitto S84:

<Seat Tube Reamer s.jpg>

 

<B72side s.jpg>

Laing

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<Seat Tube Reamer s.jpg>

<B72side s.jpg>

[lconley]

I am not going to lend my reamer out, nor am I going to be responsible for shipping frames, but if anyone wants to drop by Delray Beach or bring their frame to the meet in Ashville, NC the weekend of July 7-9, I would be happy to do the deed.

Laing

[Doug H.]

I cringe to think of reaming out the seat tube of my Clem!! Surely it was designed to be as is... And I'm not calling anyone shirley.

Doug

[lconley]

My Clementine would need a spacer to use a 27.2 seatpost, the early Clems used a larger diameter seat tube.

My super heavy duty Bombadil was built with a 27.0 Seat Tube inner diameter. I used a brake cylinder hone to enlarge it, that was before I got the reamer. 

I completely understand people not wanting to modify their frames, but I just turned 67 this week, so I don't think I will live long enough to wear out any of my frames, modified or not. I have been working on my own bikes for 50+ years and have broken things before and it is not the end of the world. I haven't broken a frame yet, though.

I am not knocking 26.8 inner diameter seat tubes - Grant knows what he is doing. I have short legs and a long body, so long setback seat posts (I have 3 S-84s) and long stems have been my friends, allowing me to ride off the shelf bicycle frames. My Rivendell Custom has a 53.4 seat tube and 63.0 effective top tube.

Remember, it is a steel frame and seat tubes can be replaced if worse comes to worse, and that gives you the excuse to get a new Joe Bell paint job.

Rivendells (including my 1st Sam Hillborne) had 27.2 inner diameter seat tubes for years, with few if any problems. Has anybody on this list ever had a 27.2 seat tube fail at the seat post?

I also filed my steerer tube on my Custom so that I could use a ReneHERSE front cable hanger.́HERSE   HERSE

Laing

[Eric Marth]

Ken — The Riv lugged seatposts are great but they only come in 27.2 ø and my seat tube on the MB-2 is reamed for 26.8 ø 

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 7:04:03 PM UTC-4 KenP wrote:

   Analog sold me one of those SR years ago and I have been using it ever since.  I like it.  Would one of the Rivendell lugged seatposts work?  They have a setback and I have one of them on a bike and like it.  Probably hard to find.

[Peter Adler]

A clarification:

All the metal rails on all the Selle An-Atomicas are steel. The difference between the T/X/H1 and T/X/H2 leather saddles is that the _1 saddles are unitary, with the steel cantles/nose pieces riveted to the leather tops. The rails on the _1 series saddles are 4130 steel rod.

The _2 series saddles are modular, with the leather tops attached to the cast aluminum cantle/nose piece with Chicago screws. The idea is that you can replace subassemblies (top, frame, rails etc) on your own, without sending the entire saddle to San Diego to replace a worn/failed element (stretched tops are the most common, but bent rails used to happen a lot; I've got at least four old SA-As with bent solid rails, from back when the rails were much longer and they used a softer steel).The rails on the _2 series detach from the cantle and nose pieces; there is an upgrade option to carbon rails, for weight weenies.

What I recently learned, although I must have read it in the description when I bought it and immediately forgotten about it, is that the standard steel rails in the _2 series are stainless steel tubing, not solid rods. They way I found this out was when the rail on the H2 on my Trek 720 (saddle purchased new, bike first built up in March 2021, ridden daily since) snapped through last December. A weight savings, sure; but at what price? I haven't called up SA-A to yell at them about it yet, but that's definitely going to happen.

In my case, the break was at a relatively low-stress point, between the clamps on an old-fashioned Campy Nuovo Record two-bolt seatpost.

As for rail length, it may depend on the age of the saddles you're comparing. SA-A has definitely been shortening their saddles since Tom Milton died (the founder, a famous ultra long distance guy in the Bay Area. He died of a heart attack during the 2010 Devil Mountain Double, a 200-mile ride that climbs both Mount Diablo near RivHQ and Mount Hamilton near San Jose - twice each. Grant wrote up a decent memoriam in the newsletter at the time; #43 or 44 or thereabouts). Milton was tall and skinny, and the saddle rails were superlong, so he could get a wide range of adjustment. Unfortunately for us less-skinny people, he didn't use superstrong steel, so the rails routinely bent. After he died, the company was in chaos for about a year. His sister took it over, and moved all the operations down to San Diego, where she and her kids run everything. The saddles have gotten shorter; there's no Pinocchio noses like the ones Tom made. But they've continued to shorten them over the years; I have a 2013 saddle that's definitely longer than my 2019 saddle, and the 2019 saddle is longer than my several 2021 saddles.

The clampable section of the rails on my aforementioned broken H2 modular saddle with a January 2021 serial number are definitely shorter than the solid rails on an X1 I have, but the X1 is currently mounted, and I can't see the serial number. I'm sure it's older, but I'll have to wait until morning to check the date; it may be from before the last shortening. I don't believe I've gotten a solid-rail saddle since 2019 (or a modular _2 series saddle from before 2020), so I'm unclear whether the shorter clamp areas on the rails are a reflection of the difference between modular and welded rails, or a difference between pre- and post-2020 saddles generally.

Peter Adler

owner of about 14 SA-As from a 20-year range, in various stages of stretched-outness and bent-railness, including the one Grant did a Frankenstein job on with X-Acto knives and twine that he wrote up in a newsletter

Berkeley, CA/USA

[Eric Marth]

Peter — Thanks for this detailed account of SA saddles, rail changes and company history. I did recall that the founder was an endurance guy who died on a long ride. Perhaps part of one of Grant's lists of ultra-athletes who died or had serious heart problems before they reached 40. 

The SA I have is a Titanico and from the production sticker on the bottom I think it's from 2013. It is quite long, end to end length is 12.5". It came with the used 2009 Sam Hillborne I picked up in 2021. 

I can't tell if my rails are bent or if the rails were designed with a bit of a curve to them. The bend is gradual and if the saddle was brand new I'd think nothing of it. I last ran the Titanico on my Surly LHT with that sucker pushed alllll the way back. 

[lconley]

Note that tubing is almost as strong as solid. Removing the material from the center of a solid rod does little to reduce it's strength. The formula to determine the strength includes the distance (maybe squared) from the center of mass of the shape, so material at the center of mass of a circle (which is the center of the circle) contributes almost nothing to the strength - this is why bicycles are made of tubing and not solid rod. This is also why I will remove the material from the inside of the seat tube, but not from the outside of the seat post to make a 27.2 seat post fit a 26.8 seat tube (also the Nitto S-84 lugged seat post is plated on the outside). The exception to this would be to make an alloy Nitto stem fit a French steerer tube - a sanded down Nitto stem is still way, way stronger than an original French stem.

Note that there have been many models of Brooks saddles that use double rails on each side and even some with triple rails - single rails are highly stressed.

Probably the reason that the double rail Brooks B-72s were popular with the early mountain bikers

Triple Rail brooks saddle, I think it was a B-33

Laing

Trying to remember the course "Strength of Materials" that I took 40 years ago and owner of many Brooks B-68s and 1 B-72

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 8:14:23 AM UTC-4 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

[John Johnson]

Hi Eric,

Here in France you can get the Velo-orange UNO SP-248 (which appears to be the Grand Cru and is also somehow maybe a Kalloy UNO - I dunno) for 30 euros and it also somehow comes in 26.8 and has 30mm of setback.

https://www.alltricks.fr/F-11946-tiges-de-selles/P-2078692-tige_de_selle_veloorange_uno_sp_248_argent?gclid=CjwKCAjw8-OhBhB5EiwADyoY1WPUte5QqJuDCpSqsC1ylroPWaRLl1o-PcTGUhPWyfbwe17K8Mfn6BoCXrYQAvD_BwE

cheers,

john

[Joe Bernard]

Now all we need is a way to get that 26.8 post to the USA. I tried cuz I know someonw who could really use this post but no go. Why doesn't Velo Orange sell it here??

[Eric Marth]

Joe — I found an UNO SP-248 on eBay, it's $28. The seller is in the UK but shipping to me in Virginia is only $7.40 when I add it to my cart. Not as cheap as other Kalloy posts but not bad. I wonder if I could feel a 1/4" difference in setback. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133459989643

[Joe Bernard]

Eric,

I think there's some confusion between that Kalloy and the V-O Grand Cru; this one looks like the stock post on new Rivs, which is more in the 20-25mm setback range from the looks of it. 

[Garth]

Don't buy anything Eric !

The confusion appears on the part of the Alltricks website. They're using a pic of the VO Grand Cru setback seatpost that has 30mm of setback, but they're actually selling the Kalloy UNO SP-248. There is no VO SP-248 model. The VO post only comes in 27.2 and retails for much more than the Kalloy which comes in a huge variety of sizes. The SP-248 is indeed the very post Rivendell includes with some frames/completes. If you bought a complete Clem or Platy that's the post that came with it.

Kalloy claims 26mm setback which still isn't enough though.

https://www.kalloyuno.com/product/seatposts/r-igid/sp248d

https://velo-orange.com/collections/seatposts/products/vo-grand-cru-seat-post-long-setback

[Eric Marth]

We should all take a moment to thank Garth, our resident setback technical expert and advisor!

Still think reaming my seatpost to 27.2 ø is the best course forward. Sure wish I could live with the current setup

[Randy Spencer]

I found a new secondhans NJS jaguar for my hillborne on Ebay. New they’re 200 bucks, yeesh. Lots of setback, super pretty. They definitely out bling my white industries hubs.

Randy “ooo shiny” in portland

[P W]

Honestly, I just want to see more photos of the bike!

Looks perfect.

I really like the Nitto S65, or the old Ritchey equivalent, which I think would have a little more setback than the Suntour. It feels like it does compared to the bikes I ride with a Suntour and the ones I ride with both the Nitto and Ritchey, anyway!

Paul Tall and Handsome is expensive but nice, but I don’t think they offer 26.8. Likewise, I really like early Moots layback stems, or even MRC. But not only are they hard to find for a reasonable price, I’m not sure if they ever even made a 26.8?

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

On Apr 12, 2023, at 7:42 PM, Eric Marth <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:



<Screenshot 2023-04-12 at 10.40.34 PM.png>

Hi all — I'm comparing 26.8 seatposts and their varying setback. I'd like the saddle on my MB-2 to be further back. 

Does anyone have any firsthand experience with how a Thompson and Nitto S83 compare in terms of setback? I've been searching around and can't find any definitive measurements. 

I'm currently running a Suntour XC Pro seatpost and it looks like either of the above will give me more setback than I currently have.  

I've tried and very much did not like the IRD wayback seatpost, it slips. Others have reported the same. Don't buy this seatpost! 

The vintage SR MTE-100 is good, solid, I run one on my Appaloosa. Would rather try something different. Plus, they're hard to find! 

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[lconley]

Looking closely at pictures of the S83 and the Jaguar, I do not believe that the Jaguar has more setback than the S83, let alone 50% more (according to the Crust Website 30mm vs. 20mm). They look equal to me. The forward bolt holes appear to be in the same location.

Laing

[Mr. Ray]

Here are the specs from Nitto:

[Garth]

It seems every retailer gives different specs Laing. I had seen both on Velodrome.com and they listed the setback as 25mm for the SP-72 Jaguar and 24 for the S-83, but Nitto lists 24mm and 23mm respectively. Who knows what to believe, as ask a hundred people to measure it and you'll get a hundred different answers. The problem is the angles of the head and the post never match, the head tilts, so it has variable angles but it's never perpendicular with the post. Thus, the measurement is always changing depending on the angle and exact height it's measured.  Any which way however, neither offers anything of any meaningful difference when you're dealing with saddle rails much too short, and seat tubes too steep. An S-84 can help, though it's not ideal as is getting the seat tube angle proper for that saddle to begin or with Brooks simply offering longer rails. Or another saddle altogether  Nitto lists the S-84 it as 37mm setback, where some say it's 40mm, some say it's 45mm .....sheesh. Whatever it is, it offers a whole lot more than than all other standard setback posts. 25mm used to be considered as "standard setback" for road bikes. Ritchey still uses the term. Brooks having such short rails, that's another story.

I like the way Jones offers a 71d STA on his frames, this allows for use of either zero setback or standard setback, depending on the saddle and desired position. An average saddle with a zero setback post @71d STA equates to about a 72d and standard setback post. Road users may want to be further forward, which why Jones bikes are optimal for off road.

For Riv owners though the only way is to bore out the seat tube. As mentioned, 27.7 bore on a standard 28.6 OD steel tube is pretty much standard among all framebuilders.

[lconley]

So the Jaguar has an insignificant extra 1mm of setback over the S83.

We need a 26.8 S84 which would require a new lug for the S84, or a change in diameter below the lug. I am not holding my breath for either of that developments.

Laing

[Johnny Alien]

Not to derail this but with the Riv method of riding oversized bikes I am shocked that there is much need for saddles to be set back so far.

[Leah Peterson]

Johnny - I know! Maybe it’s the swept-back bars? 

Garth and anyone else: I hate spending $200 on a seat post but I would do it for my raspberry Platypus. The Rivet Sonora rails are short and what I wouldn’t give for more setback. If I bought that Nitto from Crust’s website (S84?) that WOULD give me noticeably more setback than the standard Riv seat post, yes? 

Say the word and I’m buying that stupid expensive post.

L

On Apr 17, 2023, at 3:09 PM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

Not to derail this but with the Riv method of riding oversized bikes I am shocked that there is much need for saddles to be set back so far.

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[lconley]

The S84 is 27.2 ONLY. The S84 (I own 3) is why I bought my reaming tool.

Laing

[Leah Peterson]

Sorry, the Jaguar. It looks like the website says so???

On Apr 17, 2023, at 3:33 PM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

The S84 is 27.2 ONLY. The S84 (I own 3) is why I bought my reaming tool.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/79b16795-5d23-4e0b-9341-140a3f07e865n%40googlegroups.com.

[Brian Turner]

Johnny - that's funny because for the longest time, every time I would see a Rivendell bike, it looked to me like the frames were all way too small for the riders, because the stems and seatposts often looked like they were jacked up so high. Now, it seems to be the opposite, and a lot of Riv riders look like they're riding frames that are a couple sizes too big! I guess that all speaks to how the geometry of Rivendell models has evolved over time to arrive at the current philosophy.

[Brian Turner]

Leah, from reading through this whole discussion, I think maybe the Crust specs are incorrect on the Jaguar (aka SP72). I would trust the Nitto specs, which actually show only a 1mm difference between the S83 and the Jaguar.

[lconley]

What he said. The Jaguar is actually SHORTER than the S83 by 1mm according to the Nitto information.

Laing

[Ryan]

Leah...your frame takes a 27.2 seatpost, right?

[Garth]

Yes. Leah, for you to use the S-84, the lugged one with 37mm plus setback that comes only in 27.2mm size, you would need to take your bike to a bike shop who works with steel frames and has experience with reaming seat tubes. Reaming a standard 28.6mm outer diameter steel tube to take a 27.2mm post is not only easy, it's standard by most frame designers/builders. 26.8mm is not. Look for shops that have been around for a long time, and do ask about their experience. It should be a no brainer for most shops but I haven't been in a bike shop for along time. Actually when you buy a steel frame from a local dealer it is still customary at most to ream/clean out the tubes as standard part of an extensive standard prep for all new frame sales. That Riv doesn't do this, or says it's not necessary, or wants to charge extra, I don't agree with that, but of course it's not my business and they're not a bike shop either. Many Riv buyers may not know that most retail shops prep frames complimentary as part of the sale, at least the ones I was familiar with or worked at.

No need to spend $200 though. I see 17 S84's for sale on ebay from Japan for $130 total w/shipping. Some spell it S84, some S-84, look for both. Or for a Japanese retail store, Tracksupermarket.com sells the 250mm version(plenty long) for $111.50 and shipping to Ohio USA is $18.50. Michigan would be the same.

https://www.tracksupermarket.com/nitto-tokyo-s-84-lugged-seat-post-27-2mm.html

[Ryan]

Hey Leah...now that I remember this topic came up before when you had that IRD post...and you gor something else that works but you're not best pleased with?   I think we all determined your Platy uses 26.8....so Garth is right, you'd have to get someone who knows what they're doing to ream that frame.

 Maybe a road trip in July and a visit to Iconley?

[Austin L]

I like the American Classic setback posts. Occasionally they come up in 28.6. 

Another option if you have a makerspace or friend with a lathe is to turn down a 27.2.

Austin

[J Schwartz]

Greetings

Picking up this thread I just bought a 50cm Roadini and had it built up for my wife  (Thanks Bryan!).  The goal being a faster, more roadie bike than she currently rides but still can hit trails.

She has a very long torso and long arms but short (proportionally to her torso) legs...  She's an 80pbh so Right in the sweet spot for a size 50.

Initially I put Chocos on the bike on a 110mm high-rise stem ...but they come way back... so that probably not the right bar for the Roadini anyway.

Even when mocking the bike up with noodles on a 100mm stem , she felt scrunched up and didn't have the reach she needed.  Her rear end was hanging off the back of the saddle. 

Her other bike is a Bruce Gordon BLT Taiwanese-built touring frame with 26" wheels 

it's got a 44cm seat tube with a 54cm top tube and a, I think, a 12º slope on the top tube.  We've got a 13cm Nitto stem on it and Albatross bars ...which don't come back nearly as far as the Chocos.

Currently the saddle is a  Brooks B17 all the way back on the stock Kalloy seatpost. 

I'm rebuilding the cockpit with either drops or something like a Wavie...not sure which direction yet, but def something that doesn't come back too much and will use an appropriately long stem.

With regards to seat-posts, I see IRD has come out with a new "Compact" version of their wayback stem.  It extends 30mm rather than the 50mm of the previous way -way back version 

https://www.interlocracing.com/shop/ird-seatpost-wayback-compact-6972?search=wayback+compact#attr=346,4463,1073

and it's comes in 26.8mm

I think this could help a lot without the extreme nature of the 50mm version 

Curious if anyone has had success with this post?

Also, thinking the B17 may be the wrong saddle just bc of the short rails.

[Johnny Alien]

I have close to the same PBH (80.5) and the same longer torso vs leg length. I kept thinking I needed to go back but then on some advice from this forum decided to adjust the stem vs saddle and actually bumped the saddle forward a little bit. I went to a zero setback Thomson post. It was a night and day improvement and I wished I had known to do this earlier. This is on a Gallop prototype which is also a road bike frame. Keeping the right geometry over the crank is the key to feeling comfortable for me and going back was actually making it worse. Someone here can likely explain it better and I am sure everyone is different. I know nothing about bike fitting.

[J Schwartz]

Interesting , I have one of those zero offset Thomson's...

@Johnny Alien, did you increase your stem length?

May try that... but I think the Wayback Compact is worth a shot.

She thinks she may be the next size up , 54cm ..but I'm pretty sure she's barely straddle it.  The standover is 81.8cm.  She's got an 80pbh.

Plus according to the geo pages, the 50cm and 54cm have essentially the amount of reach.

The crazy thing is she test fit my bike (59cm Romulus with a 9cm stem and noodles) while I was holding it up and said it was much better ...in terms of length...not height obviously.  Even then she was starting slide off the rear of the saddle though.

Also on her Bruce Gordon ..with the 13cm stem and Albatross bars she is using the long setback VO post ...which only comes in 27.2 btw.

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

+1 on Eric's comments.

I have a 27.2mm LTE-100 I bought from a list member.   I measured the setback on the work bench and the '0' mark on the LTE-100 scale is apporx 20mm of setback.  So the '50' mark is 70mm of setback.  Quite a bit of setback.  If pushed back to the 50mm mark, the setback corresponds to a 69° STA from a 73°STA with a Saddle Height of 71cm and a 20mm setback seatpost.

The list member used the adjustable design to get an initial setting. Then used a conventional nut/bolt for riding.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 1:28:18 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:

Leah, I'm happy to be helpful! I'm also sorry to hear you tried and had a bad experience with the IRD seatpost. I was excited when it was released because it seemed like it would solve the 26.8 lots of setback problem. But that seatpost is just a problem and a setback in and of itself. 

Just as a note on the Kalloy post: it lists 24mm of offset. Compared to a Nitto S83 at 23mm that's hardly a noticeable difference. I can get that extra millimeter if I forego underwear. 

I will again endorse the SR MTE-100. They're hard to find, they're pretty ugly but they're stout and have tons of setback. I did have trouble getting that quick release to stay put so I replaced mine with a long 8mm bolt and a nylock nut. 

[Joe Bernard]

I would say your wife is right that this frame is too small for her. It's certainly not going to be helpful information for you now - you have the frame and built it! - but she needs something like a Platypus or Clem L where the reach can be long but still have standover clearance and a reasonable amount of seatpost showing. 

For reference I'm 79pbh and my custom has these numbers: 

54.2cm ST

63cm ETT (lots of room for Boscos) 

standover is about 75cm

Joe Bernard

[J Schwartz]

Thanks Joe

But the intention for this bike is a go fast-ish, light-ish, road oriented bike with 35-38mm tires

Her Bruce Gordon BLT already does what a Plat or Clem does for the most part...

Also, I don't see how going up a size in the Roadini helps....the ETT goes from 55.2cm on the 50cm frame to 56.5cm on the 54cm frame.  That's half an inch.

and the reach goes from 37.2 to 37.3.

JS

[Sarah Carlson]

Leah, did you see that Analog had the (I think Jaguar) in .... pink? It's sold out now but maybe they might have one stashed for you!

Sarah

[Johnny Alien]

My stem is a 120 with losco bars. I am not sure if those come back as far (or further) that the choco bars. I would bet they come back farther. I like to set up my bikes so that the far away positions are usable. In this case that is hands on the front of the bar which gives me something similar to rinding on the tops of a drop bar. The back position then puts me bolt upright. That way I have the most flexibility to how I ride. Setting up sweptback bars so that there is reach at the furthest back position makes all other positions useless for me.

[Bill Lindsay]

Maybe try the original Nitto Moustache bar?  Those have the parallel hand position but essentially no sweep back because they go forward a lot before coming back.  Most riders who switched from drop bars to Moustache bars had to run a shorter stem than they used with drops.  That could be ideal for stretching out a too-short cockpit for a rider that's short in the legs and longer in the torso.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

P.S.  If you need help finding one, I've got one.  

[Garth]

My experience mirrors Johnny's. I went from using an S84 to a 25mm setback Ritchey post to now a zero setback Ritchey. I ride 150mm cranks too, midfoot position. 74" tall, proportional legs. As I see it , the more I moved forward over the BB, the more effectively I can push  down and back to the rear wheel, rather than trying to push down and forward and have that energy rebound back to the rear wheel. I could feel the discrepancy being so bar back, pushing forward to push back to the rear wheel, but I could never figure out what was going on in words. But as I moved the saddle forward I found that "counter-forces" lessened and so I just kept going forward. My frame already has a long reach, 62cm c-c withe 62cm TT @72.5d STA and 72d HTA, and I went from a 110cm stem to a 130mm. I''m also using Zipp compact drop bars(70/115mm reach/drop),  so I have lots more potential reach available if desired just by changing the bar.  I'm doing my best to put it into words here. Yes, it may go against everything you ever thought about crank length or body position relative the BB, but just because the same theories are parroted over the internet does not make them suitable for anyone but the one who wrote it. 

Riding the shorter 150mm cranks also allows me to be further forward of the BB without losing any forward reach to the bars. Placing my feet more midfoot, I don't remember exactly but I think my saddle height remained close to what it was with longer cranks. I did find this on crank length : https://biketestreviews.com/cranklength/ ,  it's rather long and techie, but the second part I most relate to based on my experience. It is very silly that crank length has been in large part stuck between 165-180mm. Think about the very large variance in body heights, leg lengths and feet sizes, from children to adults. Such a limited range doesn't work for everyone. Stems range from zero to 160mm. Hmmm. 

I've notice more of the brand name parts makers are catching on about short cranks. I know Grant knows about them as I mentioned to him once I ride 150mm cranks and he had read about 150mm being a sweet spot. I get that offering other sizes requires investment and inventory so who knows if a short Silver crank will ever arrive. I suspect if I showed up on their door with a set for them to try though, they'd certainly try them for themselves ! Plus, while I don't ride a Brooks saddle, in light of the perspective I've given it seems it's a good thing that they have short rails , for those that want to move forward. FWIW, I've moved my saddle all the way forward on my Bombadil, which still has Albatross bars on it. While the reach is too short for me wanting to go long and low, (I have a drop bar setup set to install), I found the same pealing bliss being more forward of the BB. It was like, zoom ! Pedaling feels so much more fluent and efficient, just like on my Franklin bike.  So yes, you can still be upright if you want, but you'll be able to push down to the rear wheel more effectively/efficiently. 

Have you ever seen people ride a skid bike ? I saw some videos of this. The bikes are odd for sure, but what struck me the extreme at which they were forward of the BB. I mean extreme, like they lean over the bars and front wheel and push back to the BB with their body at a forward angle. They generate lots of power with ease that way. While we're not riding our bikes to that, it does highlight what I'm taking about, albeit it an EXTREME way ! Ahahaahahahaa !