Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

[Ryan Ray]

I thought the Rodeo was a direct decendant of the Ram but it seems like maybe the Ram was halfway between a Rodeo and a A Homer Hilsen? Is it just a Hilsen without good rack mounts? Does Rivendell keep an archive of older stuff somewhere on their site?

[dougP]

Ryan:

There was a thread a couple of years (or more?) back entitled "Is the
Ram the perfect bike?" or something similar. Generated a lot of
responses. Check the archives.

dougP

[Rambouilleting Utahn]

Jim (Cyclefiend and keeper of this list) has the a very good page on
the Ram on his website

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html

If I remember correctly the AHH compared to the Ram has slightly
stouter tubing, wider clearance for tires and fenders (built around
the Silver brake) and a few other differences.

Regarding the rack mounts the later Rams had rack mounts midway down
the fork, not sure about midway down the seat stays. If I ever have to
repaint my Ram I will have the mid fork mounts added.

hope that helps.

[PATRICK MOORE]

So, how does the Ram compare with the Roadeo in fast pavement performance?

Would someone who wants a (1) 700c, (2) light-ish, (3) derailleur
Rivendell for fast-ish road riding be better off with a Roadeo or a
Ram? I realize that the Ram is no longer made, so we are comparing a
new Roadeo with a used Ram.

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For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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A billion stars go spinning through the night
Blazing high above your head;
But in you is the Presence that will be
When all the stars are dead.

Ranier Maria Rilke, Buddha in Glory

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

In the "good old days" when I started following Riv, maybe 2004 or so, Riv had 2 models: the Atlantis, which was the "touring and rough stuff bike", and the Rambouillet, which was the Riv for riding mostly on paved roads with 28 mm tires. I assume that the Ram and Roadeo geometry are similar, but maybe the Rodeo tubing is slightly lighter? Riv also offered the Ram as a complete bike, which was equipped with sensibly lightweight, but not super-light wheels and other components, mostly 105 level stuff, Araya RC-540 rims, etc, though there was some variability. The whole bike was $2300 at the time.

In my opinion, any attempt to differentiate the Ram from the Roadeo would be an exercise in splitting hairs.

[Greg J]

Aside from the original Riv Road in the late 90s and the introduction of the Roadeo a few years ago, the Rambouillet was the standard road bike in Riv's lineup.  Which meant lighter than the Atlantis.  It takes long reach calipers, 43 stays I think, 77 or 78 drop, but with the relaxed Riv angles.  I'm sure the specs are on Cyclofiend's site.  The Saluki and AHH are supposed to be stouter than the Ramb.

The Roadeo came much later, and it is much much lighter than the Ram.  The Ram was marketed as the road bike for everyone.  the Roadeo is the road bike for those who want a light (20lbs) bike, who have other bikes that can do the everyday, load-carrying type duty.

Greg

[Ryan Ray]

Interesting that it would be an "everyday, load-carrying type duty" bike without all the braze-ons usually associated with those activities. Either way I'm 6"6 195 lbs so a little stout tubing doesn't scare me.

- Ryan

[William]

HappyC, I think you might have misread Greg J's sentence.  He said the Roadeo is the light UNLOADED thing for people who have OTHER bikes to do the more stout stuff.  

[Ryan Ray]

You're right. I did. Thanks.

- Ryan

[Cyclofiend Jim]

One thing we tend to take a little for granted these days was the comparative lack of appropriate tires, brake and such which we are currently enjoying. At the time, the common brakes were typically short reach, and though the Rambouillet was designed for significant clearance, there was just not a lot of hardware which supported that idea.  I recall GP lamenting in his end-of-year wish lists in Readers from then that he was hoping for "standard reach brakes" from the major manufacturers. 

When the Silver Brakes came out, this let GP start working on a truly large clearance, go-anywhere bike, which became the Hilsen.  The Hilsen kind of slid the scale one way, and then the Roadeo was able to be notched a bit more toward the light and snappy (though, significantly, with no loss of clearances....) range.

Here's an interesting image or two -

The Rambouillet rear clearance -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr24_pg21md.jpg

Shown with a Pasela 35 (which during that era probably ran more like a 32) and Dia Compe 505Q brake.

The Hilsen rear clearance -
http://cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/AHH37PAS&sharpieRear.jpg

Shown with a 37 Pasela and Silver brakes.

As others mentioned, I do have a Rambouillet page here -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet

- Jim

[Rob H.]

Ryan,

If you're looking for something similar to the Ram I've read that the
SOMA San Marcos is pretty close in lightness and zippiness. I hope to
find this out for myself, maybe for christmas...And alas, like the Ram
it has no mid-fork braze ons for a front rack. Nothing a couple of P
clamps couldn't fix.

On Apr 11, 11:56 am, Cyclofiend Jim <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> One thing we tend to take a little for granted these days was the
> comparative lack of appropriate tires, brake and such which we are
> currently enjoying. At the time, the common brakes were typically short
> reach, and though the Rambouillet was designed for significant clearance,
> there was just not a lot of hardware which supported that idea.  I recall
> GP lamenting in his end-of-year wish lists in Readers from then that he was
> hoping for "standard reach brakes" from the major manufacturers.
>
> When the Silver Brakes came out, this let GP start working on a truly large
> clearance, go-anywhere bike, which became the Hilsen.  The Hilsen kind of
> slid the scale one way, and then the Roadeo was able to be notched a bit
> more toward the light and snappy (though, significantly, with no loss of
> clearances....) range.
>
> Here's an interesting image or two -
>

> The Rambouillet rear clearance -http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr24_pg21md.jpg

>
> Shown with a Pasela 35 (which during that era probably ran more like a 32)
> and Dia Compe 505Q brake.
>

> The Hilsen rear clearance -http://cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/AHH37PAS&sharpieRear.jpg

[Ryan Ray]

Thanks for the responses. Some of those old threads helped out a bit.

- Ryan

[Michael_S]

From what I recall ( having owned a Ram) that the Ram and Hilsen were both made from the same  wall thickness tubing  ( 8-5-8).  The Roadeo has thinner tubing from what I read. The Hilsen had better tire clearances. My Ram would only barely  fit a Jack Brown in front w/o fender. The back would fit a 37mm Pasela.  Some of the last Ram's had mid fork braze on's too. 

It was a great riding bike, the lack of clearance in front led to me selling it.

~mike

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:33:04 AM UTC-7, HappyCamper wrote:

[cm]

When I was at Riv I was told that the tubeset on the larger AHH and Rodeo were basically the same and the differences were in clearance and geometry. If true, I would think the weight would be about the same too. 

Cheers,

cm

[Leslie]

I'm not a lightweight;  one of the things that GP had in the Roadeo description was "if you weigh 250, we're not going to sell one to you", or something to that effect.  Grant would rather have seen me on a Hilsen over a Ram, but, I was leaning towards the roadbike side of the equation, and I'd fallen in love w/ a green Ram at MSL, and bought it, just as the Ram was about to sunset and the Roadeo was about to arrive.    So when the Roadeo was 'announced', for a bit, I wondered if I should have not eaten for two weeks and ordered a Roadeo instead even.  But I finally decided, I'm not a TdF wannabe, I didn't need to switch from the Ram to a Roadeo, my Ram perfectly suited my road needs (and now, my Bomba complements the other side of the equation, for a touring/MTB heavyweight). 

And, my Ram had rack mounts on both the mid-fork and the mid-seatstay.  (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/4407972696/lightbox/)   

In that pic, it has the Paselas on it, front and rear; but now, I'm still running a 32 Pasela TG in the rear, but have gone to the 28 RuffyTuffy in the front.  Works great for me.  If I need something w/ more tire than that, I'd take the Bomba...


-L

[James Warren]

I don't know how the Ram compares to the Roadeo, but it is a bit different from the Hilsen. It's quicker than the Hilsen, but the difference is subtle. From about 2002 to about 2008, Rambouillet was the Rivendell "Road Bike." When they put it to sleep, Hilsen filled in for it as the "almost road bike, but really a country bike." The Roadeo had not come along yet and without Ram or Roadeo, something was definitely missing. 

 

Ram = road bike with country bike tendencies

AHH = country bike with road bike tendencies

 

I'll put a commuting load on my Ram, sometimes a bit heavy in the saddlebag with student papers and some of my stuff, and then some of my other stuff loading up the bar tube bag, and loaded that way, the Ram feels a bit less wonderful with the weight, but not enough to bug me, just enough to notice.

 

Meanwhile, if I put a similar load in the AHH, it seems less effected.

 

Unloaded, the Ram is quicker than the AHH. The bikes have the same JB tires, but different rear wheels. The Ram wheel is 130 mm hub, Dura Ace, 32 spokes. The AHH wheel is 135 mm hub, XT, 36 spokes.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Ray
Sent: Apr 11, 2012 10:33 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

I thought the Rodeo was a direct decendant of the Ram but it seems like maybe the Ram was halfway between a Rodeo and a A Homer Hilsen? Is it just a Hilsen without good rack mounts? Does Rivendell keep an archive of older stuff somewhere on their site?

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[James Warren]

Compared to what came later, the only functional "drawback" of the Ram is tire clearance, and it's not really a drawback compared to the rest of the world. The Ram can ONLY take 700x33.33333's without fenders.

Rivendells evolved since the Ram's inception in 2001, and both AHH and Roadeo beat out the Ram in tire/fender clearance. But necessarily in awesomeness.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Rambouilleting Utahn <gla...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 11, 2012 10:41 AM
>To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
>Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?
>
>Jim (Cyclefiend and keeper of this list) has the a very good page on
>the Ram on his website
>
>http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html
>
>If I remember correctly the AHH compared to the Ram has slightly
>stouter tubing, wider clearance for tires and fenders (built around
>the Silver brake) and a few other differences.
>
>Regarding the rack mounts the later Rams had rack mounts midway down
>the fork, not sure about midway down the seat stays. If I ever have to
>repaint my Ram I will have the mid fork mounts added.
>
>hope that helps.
>
>

>On Apr 11, 11:33 am, Ryan Ray <ryanr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I thought the Rodeo was a direct decendant of the Ram but it seems like
>> maybe the Ram was halfway between a Rodeo and a A Homer Hilsen? Is it just
>> a Hilsen without good rack mounts? Does Rivendell keep an archive of older
>> stuff somewhere on their site?
>
>--
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

[JL]

IMHO The Roadeo is not a direct Decendant of the Rambouillet but
Rivendell does tend to make bikes with overlap.

The geometry of any bikes tends to fluctuate a little over the size
range so it is important to consider the size when making a
comparison.

The AHH could be seen as a re-evaluation of the design ideas the Ram
was built under. As others have pointed out the advances in bicycle
components made the AHH possible. The Rambouillet has less tire
clearance (54mm brake reach +/- a small variation across production
runs) than the AHH (65mm +/-). The Ram has rear rack eyelets on the
seat stays. The two bikes (Ram and AHH) are similar in geometry yet
different enough to be cousins rather than siblings.

The Roadeo has geometry similar to the original Road Standard and
almost identical to the Legolas. The Geometry of the Roadeo is not
very similar to the the Ram although they both has similar tire
clearance. The Roadeo has steeper head tube and seat tube anlges as
well as a shorter top tube and lighter tubing than the Ram/Rom. The
two bikes feel different.

It could be said that in the 700c sizes the Roadeo and the AHH overlap
with the AHH being more capable of being set up to do "road" duty. The
Roadeo could not be set up as effectively with racks and loaded
accessories. The Rambouillet overlaps with both of those bikes but
favors the side of the AHH.

I think the Ram is a good do anything sort of a bike for someone who
isn't interested in very large tire + fender clearance. I have a 54cm
ram and really enjoy it. That said, I would trade it for a Saluki or
an Atlantis if I had the possibility.

JL

[James Warren]

Great point. When the Ram came out, things had not evolved as much as they are now. Much has happened since 2001 when the Ram was hatched.

 

The Ram was the best at the time for versatility in a road bike even though it "only" had standard reach brakes - but hey, way more versatile than short reach. And in 2002 we were saying, "fingers crossed, I think Shimano's gonna make an Ultegra in Standard, oh please, oh please, oh please." And then it happened!

 

Within the next year, I got my Ram, and got those Ultegras. I was (and still am) so happy with the versatility, but I had no idea that just a few years later, clearances were going to widen even more.

 

Similarly, rack options have evolved with more mini-racks, so while you can still do a lot with a Ram, things have gotten even better. The midstay braze-ons made it onto the very last Rams made but not the earlier ones. Those are cool.

 

So the Ram blazed trails even thought its successors are slightly more versatile. It's like that older player in the league who inspired the younger superstars, but the old dude can still hang with them.

-----Original Message-----
From: Cyclofiend Jim
Sent: Apr 11, 2012 11:56 AM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

One thing we tend to take a little for granted these days was the comparative lack of appropriate tires, brake and such which we are currently enjoying. At the time, the common brakes were typically short reach, and though the Rambouillet was designed for significant clearance, there was just not a lot of hardware which supported that idea.  I recall GP lamenting in his end-of-year wish lists in Readers from then that he was hoping for "standard reach brakes" from the major manufacturers. 

When the Silver Brakes came out, this let GP start working on a truly large clearance, go-anywhere bike, which became the Hilsen.  The Hilsen kind of slid the scale one way, and then the Roadeo was able to be notched a bit more toward the light and snappy (though, significantly, with no loss of clearances....) range.

Here's an interesting image or two -

The Rambouillet rear clearance -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr24_pg21md.jpg

Shown with a Pasela 35 (which during that era probably ran more like a 32) and Dia Compe 505Q brake.

The Hilsen rear clearance -
http://cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/AHH37PAS&sharpieRear.jpg

Shown with a 37 Pasela and Silver brakes.

As others mentioned, I do have a Rambouillet page here -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet

- Jim

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[James Warren]

Big-sized Roadeos have same tubing thickness as Ram.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael_S
Sent: Apr 11, 2012 12:26 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

From what I recall ( having owned a Ram) that the Ram and Hilsen were both made from the same  wall thickness tubing  ( 8-5-8).  The Roadeo has thinner tubing from what I read. The Hilsen had better tire clearances. My Ram would only barely  fit a Jack Brown in front w/o fender. The back would fit a 37mm Pasela.  Some of the last Ram's had mid fork braze on's too. 

It was a great riding bike, the lack of clearance in front led to me selling it.

~mike

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:33:04 AM UTC-7, HappyCamper wrote:

I thought the Rodeo was a direct decendant of the Ram but it seems like maybe the Ram was halfway between a Rodeo and a A Homer Hilsen? Is it just a Hilsen without good rack mounts? Does Rivendell keep an archive of older stuff somewhere on their site?

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[Ryan Ray]

"Big-sized Roadeos have same tubing thickness as Ram."

Great info. Thanks.

- Ryan

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:37:40 PM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:

Big-sized Roadeos have same tubing thickness as Ram.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael_S
Sent: Apr 11, 2012 12:26 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

From what I recall ( having owned a Ram) that the Ram and Hilsen were both made from the same  wall thickness tubing  ( 8-5-8).  The Roadeo has thinner tubing from what I read. The Hilsen had better tire clearances. My Ram would only barely  fit a Jack Brown in front w/o fender. The back would fit a 37mm Pasela.  Some of the last Ram's had mid fork braze on's too. 

It was a great riding bike, the lack of clearance in front led to me selling it.

~mike

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:33:04 AM UTC-7, HappyCamper wrote:

I thought the Rodeo was a direct decendant of the Ram but it seems like maybe the Ram was halfway between a Rodeo and a A Homer Hilsen? Is it just a Hilsen without good rack mounts? Does Rivendell keep an archive of older stuff somewhere on their site?

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[James Warren]

In the largest size (size region where the OP is interested), the Ram and Roadeo are pretty similar: Same angles in seat and head tube, same toptube, 1 cm different in chainstay, 4 mm different in BB drop, not sure of the trail, but I'll be they are similar.

[Ryan Ray]

Do you have those spec from the Ram handy?

Not that it matters. I rode it, loved it.

- Ryan

[Michael Hechmer]

I think Grant always wants to design and promote versatility, no matter which end of the spectrum he is designing at.  When I bought my Ram, Riv literature touted its  ability as both a smooth fast road bike and a stable trail bike.  Likewise they promoted the Atlantis as a touring bike that was fine for brevets.  None of that was untrue but the Atlantis excels as a touring bike and the Rambouillet as a fast club or brevet bike.  I've been riding for more than 40 years and I have never had a bike I loved more than my Rambouillet, and a couple of years ago, I reconfigured it as a go fast, long days in the saddle bike:

http://gallery.me.com/mhechmer#100094  The Ram is absolutely ideal with 28-30 mm tires, nice Al fenders and the breeze in your face.

The AHH and the Rodeo clearly bracket the Ram.  One is slightly stouter and handles noticeably bigger tires and the other more flexible with just a smidge more tire clearance. The AHH is built to be more stable under load and the Rodeo more agile when you are jumping across hills.

I've never seen the Rodeo in person and have wondered how Grant fit 33.3 mm tires under 57 mm brakes??!!  I recently put a set of Jack Brown's on my Ebisu All Arounder and just love the ride.  I think I'd like a bike that was as responsive as my Ram and as comfortable as jack Browns on a dirt road.  Of course their is alway a problem when one wants everything!

Michael

 

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 2:56:20 PM UTC-4, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:

[Bruce Herbitter]

I have both the Ram and (hilsen) Saluki.  The lugsets, tubing, and geometries are a bit different. My Ram is currently (unfendered) running 37 mm Paselas with apparent space to maybe put a 38 in. I have not tried. It's heavier than a Roadro and more versatile. Mine has 9k miles of happy riding on it.

Sent from my Kindle Fire

---

From: Michael Hechmer <mhec...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed Apr 11 17:25:04 CDT 2012
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

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[Ryan Ray]

Somehow we've completely missed a big difference between the Hilsen and the Ram. 

(attached photo)

[reynoldslugs]

I ride both a Rambouillet and a Roadeo. They are two of my favorite
bikes. Their rides are very similar - - riding on 32mm Schwalbe
Kojaks for both bikes. Both bikes see lots of use on crummy Sonoma
County Roads. It is an utter joy to ride smooth, light, comfortable
steel bikes that easily fit 32mm tires.

Rambouillet:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157627837620505/

Roadeo:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157625293944684/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/41563482@N06/sets/72157625470080748/

I'm grateful Rivendell made these frames. They are both excellent
bikes.

Max Beach

[James Warren]

Is this real? I'm well aware of modifications and variations, but I'm still pretty surpised to see a 2TT Ram. I know there have been some repaired with second tubes added, but I didn't know they ever got the standard decals and paint. Pretty cool! And it looks good.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Ray

Sent: Apr 11, 2012 4:02 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

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[Ryan Ray]

Ha! No that's my 30 second photoshop job there :)

But that would be a big difference between the Ram and a modern Hilsen.

- Ryan

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:10:48 PM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:

Is this real? I'm well aware of modifications and variations, but I'm still pretty surpised to see a 2TT Ram. I know there have been some repaired with second tubes added, but I didn't know they ever got the standard decals and paint. Pretty cool! And it looks good.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Ray
Sent: Apr 11, 2012 4:02 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

Somehow we've completely missed a big difference between the Hilsen and the Ram. 

(attached photo)

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:33:04 AM UTC-7, Ryan Ray wrote:

I thought the Rodeo was a direct decendant of the Ram but it seems like maybe the Ram was halfway between a Rodeo and a A Homer Hilsen? Is it just a Hilsen without good rack mounts? Does Rivendell keep an archive of older stuff somewhere on their site?

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[William]

For me, I'd LOVE to own either one, a Ram or a Roadeo.  The fact that every once in a while you see a used Ram for <$800 in my size makes me think I might end up with one someday.  If I ever buy a Roadeo, I'd probably beg and pay for mid fork braze ons, and DT shifter bosses.  

[pb]

FWIW -- my Rambouillet is my country-est road bike -- the other road
bikes in my garage are racier, running 23's, 25's, and 28's. I keep
33's on it most of the time, haven't noticed any clearance issues, and
it's a particularly sweet-riding, relaxed, comfy, predictable bike.
I've ridden it on everything from hilly, pure road rides, to semi-
technical dirt and gravel single-track. Works great.

I have arrived at a quiver of bikes that I really like, and really
enjoy. Other than the Ram (and a couple of neglected, vintage hold-
overs), my regular riders are all ti. I reach for the Ram regularly,
which I think is a real complement to that bike.

I do wish it were a tad bigger. Anyone have a 60 cm creamsicle they
need a new home for?

[Bruce Curry]

Point of order on fenders on Ram:

All I have 33.3 Jack Browns with fenders (45mm stainless VO's). The
silver brakes probably help w/clearance. Took a couple hours to
install/tweak but worth it.

Bruce

[James Warren]

Ah, darn! I made one of those catastrophic typos. The quote below is supposed to say: NOT necessarily in awesomeness! In other words, while it lacks one functional element of the other two models, the Ram still might be the most awesome for me.

[James Warren]

Neat. That's good to know. What year frame?

I know that my first generation, orange Ram with standard reach Ultegra brakes does not have room for fenders over its JB's, and we've pretty consistently heard that from others. But the brakes you mention came along later, so there might not be a lot of Rams that have them. Like the Rambouillet needed to be any more awesome!

But just to clarify something: when you say Silver brakes, you mean brakes like the Tektro Bigmouth 57's and not the Bigmouth 73's, right? I think the only brake called "Silver" (as opposed to Tektro) are the longer than standard reach 57-73 versions, and those never fit on the Rambouillet, did they?

-Jim W.

James Warren

jimcw...@earthlink.net

- Remember, my friends, it is better to feel fast than to be fast.

[Stephen S]

Can we see pics or a write up on how to do this? I think a lot of us Ram riders would love to run a Jack Brown / Fender combination. I also second the request on what year your ram is from. It's possible some change occurred in later years (like the rack braze-ons folks have mentioned that aren't on my blue ram)

I run 28s (Gatorskins but have run Roly-Polys ) with the SKS P35s and feel like I have barely enough room those and Bigmouth 57s. The BM57s were a big improvement over the Shimano R600 brakes but I can't see how to get bigger tires and fenders under them.

Love to see some shots / write up =)

Stephen 

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[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

You can put the 73 mm Tektro brakes on a Ram, with pads at the top of the slot. Somebody said the Roadeo is "much lighter", but I doubt that "much lighter" is more than a couple ounces (part of which is DT shifter bosses). Most Rams had what I would describe as sport-touring componentry. Put lightweight race stuff on it and it could also be sub-20lb.

[Bruce Curry]

I will post on this later this am after I take some pics and get the
serial number. It is orange (which I think ran until 2003) but since
am not original owner I don't know for sure. The brakes are the true
silvers (not 556's or other bigmouth). Bruce

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[Leslie]

A factor to keep in mind, is which fenders and how they mount.

I've got VO aluminum 45mm fenders, and the initial way I tried to mount them, the daruma wasn't giving me enough tire clearance under the front fork.  I ended up switching to an L bracket, and had much more success.   However, the nuts under there are still a limiting factor;  I'm not sure I could run JB's under my fenders as currently mounted.  

I've contemplated remounting them, to get the nuts out from under there, perhaps copying an SKS mount, or try rivets, or some such. 

[David Spranger]

On my Ram, I have the Tektro 556 with VO 45mm hammered fenders and 35mm (33 actual) Schwalbe Delta Cruisers. Like Leslie, I could not use the front crown daruma, but instead used one of the supplied sliding brackets and mounted to a Sheldon fender nut. Took time, trial and error and patience, but it works great and looks very good. I will try to take some pictures and post later today. Don't know the year of my Ram, but serial # is RB0965 if that means anything to you.

[Bruce Curry]

Here are the pics of my Ram with 33.33 Jack Browns and 45mm VO
Stainless fenders.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/taizocurry/6925065306/in/photostream/

The one change to the standard VO install is the the rear hanger was
clipped to fit and be mounted from underneath the fender. I cut a
small slot with a dremel so that the hanger head could fit thru the
fender from the bottom to reach the brake bridge. The other tweak was
to wrap the stay bolts with hemp twine to keep the pronounced rattle
to a dull roar.

Bruce


On Apr 12, 6:38 am, Stephen S <elphk...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Stephen S]

thanks for the pics will check them out later

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[Michael Hechmer]

Thanks for the details, Bruce.  Has this really worked out for you?  Do you find that it takes only a little bump to make the fender rub?  I have a nice Trek 620 frame but I found that if I pushed the boundaries of fender clearance it would rub every time I stood up.

This conversation has been fascinating to me, but it just went for the academic to the personal.

I have been riding my Ram with an expensive pair of 23mm Continental GP tires, which were a gift from my son. (In case any of you don't know this you don't say no thanks to gifts from your son, no matter how wrong the size is.)  I came home today from a ride on Vermont's broken roads - they weren't good before Irene blew through and definitely haven't improved since).  Anyway, a post ride inspection revealed a significant sidewall cut in the rear tire, so I know it is time to think about new ones.  What to buy?

The bike has 43mm hammered Honjos, now eight years old, and I have mostly run Ruffy-Tuffys, but wouldn't mind something faster, if I didn't have to sacrifice comfort, in fact I would like to increase comfort.  Both Jitensha and VO state that you can run 35 mm tires under 43 mm fenders, but I have a hard time believing that, since both Al & steel fenders have rolled edges that eats about 8 mm of real estate.  PJW's web site suggest actual tire width plus 18 mm for metal fenders, and that seems more realistic.  At least 14 mm anyway.  There seems to be room on my Ram for a 52 mm fender, with a little judicious cutting around the chain stays.

How big are the fenders others are running on a Ram?  I'm running Paul's Racer Ms, so brake clearance is not an issue.

The second thing about metal fenders is that the bolts take up a lot of space underneath the fender.  Have people found a work around for this?

One simple solution for me would be to reinstall the fenders, with some extra holes and then buy the Grand Bois Cerfs, which list at 29mm, but I am told run a bit large, and offer fast performance & decent comfort. 

Tomorrow I hope to do the exact same ride on my Ebisu, with Jack Brown's, and see what feels different.

Michael

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[Steven Frederick]

Yeah, that covers it.  Grant's been about maximizing brake clearance ever since he started Riv.  The all 'rounder with canti brakes concept has always been part of it, and with each longer-reach sidepull that's been introduced, Rivendell has introduced an appropriate frame.  The Heron road was designed to maximize the short reach brake that was the only thing available at the time.  When the mid-reach brakes came out, the Rambioullet replaced the Heron Road.  And the Saluki was a twofer, introducing both the current superlong sidepull brake and 650b.  This frame lives on in the AHH. 

Each succesive Rivendell has also gotten a bit slacker, tourey/all roadier and a bit stouter.  The Roadeo is a throwback to the sportier Rivs like the Heron road and Rambouillet, steeper, lighter, but with the long reach and tire/fender clearances that have become available the last few years. 

I personally think the Roadeo is the best pavement-oriented Riv ever made.  If I didn't already have a Heron Road and a Rambouillet, I would buy one. 

Steve

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Cyclofiend Jim <cyclo...@earthlink.net> wrote:

One thing we tend to take a little for granted these days was the comparative lack of appropriate tires, brake and such which we are currently enjoying. At the time, the common brakes were typically short reach, and though the Rambouillet was designed for significant clearance, there was just not a lot of hardware which supported that idea.  I recall GP lamenting in his end-of-year wish lists in Readers from then that he was hoping for "standard reach brakes" from the major manufacturers. 

When the Silver Brakes came out, this let GP start working on a truly large clearance, go-anywhere bike, which became the Hilsen.  The Hilsen kind of slid the scale one way, and then the Roadeo was able to be notched a bit more toward the light and snappy (though, significantly, with no loss of clearances....) range.

Here's an interesting image or two -

The Rambouillet rear clearance -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr24_pg21md.jpg

Shown with a Pasela 35 (which during that era probably ran more like a 32) and Dia Compe 505Q brake.

The Hilsen rear clearance -
http://cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/AHH37PAS&sharpieRear.jpg

Shown with a 37 Pasela and Silver brakes.

As others mentioned, I do have a Rambouillet page here -
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet

- Jim

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[naw...@comcast.net]

"I personally think the Roadeo is the best pavement-oriented Riv ever made. "

   Agree 100% Steve.  I have done several brevets on an Atlantis, and a whole bunch on a Rambouillet  Currently own a Rodeo and it is fantastic.  I also have no doubt that it could wear racks and tour just fine too.

Dave Nawrocki
Fort Collins, CO

---

From: "Steven Frederick" <stl...@gmail.com>
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 6:42:52 AM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Where does the Rivendell Rambouillet fit in with other Rivs?

[Ryan Ray]

Hey look what I found.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030302234257/http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_rambouilletframes.html

[Michael Hechmer]

Thanks, that's great.