New Drivetrain Setup on the Hunqapillar

[Keith Muller]

So in my boredom at the bike shop I decided to put an XTR one-by setup on my Hunqapillar.  I also shed the fenders and rear rack and installed some 2.3" tires for a little more offroad adventure.  Next step is a few more black parts.  So far I like the simplicity of the setup and it has pretty good gear range with the 36 tooth front ring and 11-42T 11-speed cassette.  

Keith

[dstein]

Yes! I'm about to do the same thing with a sunrace 11-42 cassette, same derailleur, and white industries eno crank. 

[Patrick Moore]

All of this list interest in 1 X n drivetrains; I'm intrigued. I'll be interested to hear how this compares to the 3Xn or 2Xn originals, particularly for somewhat technical riding -- ie, where you have to dump or gain large gear differences right away.

I just rode my '96 (Santa Cruz-built, please) Bontrager Race Lite in our nearby bosque trails, and a pleasant ride it was, too. But the immediately local soil is largely river silt:

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosque).

The relevance of this fact to the 1Xn thread is that this sort of terrain, flat but with frequent sections of very fine, sandy soil (as the weather warms and the soil dries it becomes more pulverulent - ahem! - nay, very pulverulent) -- with the trail surfaces alternating between hardpack and bogs of very fine sand 2 to 3 inches deep, you need to drop your gearing by a good 20" right away, to stay upright. 

The Bontrager's 3X9 handles this sort of thing quite well: I've customized my cassette so that in the cruising big ring 44, I have 55-59-65-69" adjacent gears in the middle of the cassette; dump the chain to the 32, and you lose almost 20 gi right away. 

Will a well considered 1X10 give you the nice, close flatland cruising gears, with bailouts just a flick or 2 away?

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Keith Muller <pharm...@gmail.com> wrote:

So in my boredom at the bike shop I decided to put an XTR one-by setup on my Hunqapillar.  I also shed the fenders and rear rack and installed some 2.3" tires for a little more offroad adventure.  Next step is a few more black parts.  So far I like the simplicity of the setup and it has pretty good gear range with the 36 tooth front ring and 11-42T 11-speed cassette.  

Keith

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[ted]

No

[Patrick Moore]

Ted "no context" Kelly"'s reply is doubtless made to my question. But I disagree, at least theoretically, and I'd like to hear from others who have actually made the change, and have used both systems, and have concrete experience to relate.

This is what I've thought of:

	34.0
11.0	83.5
13.0	70.1
14.0	65.1
15.0	60.7
17.0	53.6
19.0	48.0
22.0	41.4
26.0	35.0
34.0	26.8
42.0	21.7

11 would be even better, but I do know that I can get a 10 sp cassette on the same hub as the current 9.

Note: The bike would be used for technical stuff; I have another bike for "dirt road riding."

On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 9:13 PM, ted <ted....@comcast.net> wrote:

No

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[David Stein]

Well your question that Ted replied 'no' to was: Will a well considered 1X10 give you the nice, close flatland cruising gears, with bailouts just a flick or 2 away?

Which I agree with his answer, if thats what he was answering. By giving up the front options, you can't just 'flick' the front derailleur for quick bailouts, you have to shift through each of the 1xwhatever setup till you get what you want. 

I am going to setup 1(42 ) x 10, it'll have a 25-99 gear inch range, which should suite most of my needs and I imagine most of anyone's needs (not counting personal preference of more gears closer together with a 3 x setup, or super super steep hills, or racing on downhills). Since I'll still be running friction I think I'll be fine being able to change a handful of gears at once, not missing anything from the bigger changes from changing the front chain rings, but thats all theory as of now ;). 

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[Matt P.]

Very nice set-up!  I always admire the simple look of the 1x.

Seems like the Shimano XTR 1x chainring has a "Proprietary Chain Retention Technology".  Not sure what this is, but it could be similar to Sram's 1x rings, with longer teeth to hold the chain better.  I would like this better than my current 1x set-up using a Sugino double crank, in which an inner guide and outer bashguard are necessary to prevent chain droppings.  The guides take away from the simple look, but it works well enough (and is a lot cheaper than the new 1x stuff!)

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be interested to hear user's opinions of the advantages/disadvantages of 1Xn versus 2 or 3 Xn. I'm not convinced (yet) that a 1Xn won't work better in such situations than the other. Sure, you can't just dump the chain to a smaller ring, but OTOH, rear shifts are generally easier, faster, and less prone to problems than rear shifts.

So, I think the question stands, and I'd like to hear from those who made the switch. If many like it, I may follow.

[ted]

Patrick "rhetorical question" Moore wrote:

 "Ted "no context" Kelly"'s reply is doubtless made to my question. But I disagree, ..."

In response to my negative reply to his previous query:

 "Will a well considered 1X10 give you the nice, close flatland cruising gears, with bailouts just a flick or 2 away?"

Patrick then goes on to propose a specific 1x10 setup that requires a 3 or 4 cog shift to get his desired 20 inch drop to a bailout from his 60 to 65 inch cruising gear. Since its easy to see how a 2x10 setup could have a small ring that gives a 20 inch drop from the big ring when in the "cruising" gears, I think the question he has could more concisely stated as:

  Is shifting a 1x10 set up 3 or 4 cogs in back as simple as shifting rings on a 2x10 set up?

"no context" ted

p.s. Patrick, it looks like you have a different wheel size for the 83.5" 34x11 calc, and the rest of your gear chart. 

[Mike in WA]

I don't have personal experience with running friction on a 1X10 setup, but I think dstein's thought on it makes sense. I would bet you can go from 11-13 to 36-42 on a Sunrace 10-speed cassette by friction shifting in about the same time as it would take to drop on a front derailleur. With just a little anticipation of what's coming, I can't see that scenario being a problem. 

[Patrick Moore]

That is indeed the question most succinctly put. My "road bike for dirt" -- not the singletrack mountain bike -- is geared with a "subcompact" 2X9, 38 X 24, where I hardly ever use the 24, and where I shift the 9 with Silver (friction) bar end shifters. At least with friction, it's much easier to control the rear shifts than dropping the chain to a granny ring 14 t smaller than the big ring. 

Since the mtb will be used largely for hilly singletrack where large gear drops/raises will be common, I'm interested in simplifying by removing the front shifter.

(As I type, sitting in the parking lot of ABQ's only decent skating rink on the far eastside of the city, at the base of the Sandia mountains, I've just come back from a brief dog walk, having discovered a very nice little single/doubletrack that, said a passerby, gives access to some miles of trail and fire road. I must bring the Bontrager, the next time Catie has a lesson.)

The weird close ratios in the middle of my theoretical cassette are for the flatland singletrack and adjacent access roads near my house; twisting but flat and sandy. A 55 to 69" range is just right for that.

BTW, Ted, you may well be right about the gear calculation for the 44/11. I have a years old Excel spreadsheet for gear calculations, and I simply copy and replace variables, which sometimes leads to errors.

Ted "context given" Kelly said:

[Patrick Moore]

That's what I hope is the case, since if I make the switch, it will probably come with a switch from Origin 8 mtb bar to some sort of dirt drop bar, set high, and with this, bar end shifters. I've shifted 9 with Silvers, and I am hoping that 10 won't be that much harder.

[Mark Reimer]

Keith, what's the clearance like with those tires? I've had 2.25 in my Atlantis and it's really darn close. I've rubbed the paint off after a muddy ride. 

[Brian Campbell]

Nice set up. Looking at the seat post on your Hunq, I assume that the diameter is 27.2? Did the seat post diameter change? My Hunq came to me (used) with a 26.8 post installed.......

[Keith Muller]

Mark,

Tire clearance is pretty good.  don't have any issues with tire rub on the frame.  I am currently building an Atlantis up, so it will be interesting to see the difference in tire clearance.  

Keith

[Keith Muller]

Brian,

I came by my Hunqapillar second hand.  It came with a 27.2 seatpost that fit pretty tight.  I ended up having to ream the seat tube so the seatpost could be adjusted without needing serious elbow grease.

Keith

[Bill Lindsay]

Not a 100 percent tangent, but I bought a nice carbon mountain bike. I picked the best frame with mediocre parts (deore 2x10). I just bought an XTR drivetrain for it from chain reaction (also 2x10). I'm kind of toying with putting this high end drivetrain on my Atlantis instead. Just for fun.

[Ginz]

I have a 2x10 hard tail and I like it. This is coming from a guy who was holding onto 9sp rapid rise like the last drop of water on earth.

I don't think I'd like a 1x drivetrain because it takes many more clicks to dump a lot of gear on trails. On rolling terrain, I'm sure it's nice. The strong guys in my area don't have a problem on trails though.

[Deacon Patrick]

Ride your next three trails rides as single speed. Pick and stick a gear. One gear per ride. You'll be much stronger pronto.

With abandon,

Patrick

[Mark Reimer]

I remember racing CX on a single speed after riding the course on gears a few times before. SS was my fastest time. When you know how hard you'll need to pedal after a corner or up a hill, you tend to get a lot lighter on the brakes, improve your flow, and ride smoothly in comparison. My top speeds might be lower, but my overall time drops a lot. Same with MTB. You learn how to be an efficient rider pretty quickly on a single speed, and even more so if your brakes really suck. Go with the flow!

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[Eric Y.]

Small world - I used to live two blocks from this picture location. 

Now, if only a big Hunq would pop up on the second hand market around here (again, apparently).

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 7:46:18 PM UTC-4, Keith Muller wrote: