Scam alert? I'm so confused. Blue Homer in LA? ND?

[Brenton Eastman]

Hi. I've been searching for a blue homer in 54.5 for my wife and in my ISO post I was linked to this facebook listing:

" @Brenton -

If you go FACEBOOK Rivendell Bicycle BUY/SELL/TRADE, there is a blue Homer under the owner's name of 

Payton Beargrr 

Very near mint condition A. Homer Hilsen, 54.5cm with 650b wheels. Unsure of year but it's likely 4 or less years old. Taiwanese made frame. I am not the original owner but this appears to be a Rivendell build. 

-Nitto handlebars, stem, and seat post

-Brooks saddle

-Paul racer brakes, Paul canti levers

-Paul thumbie mounts with Microshift shifters

-Riv Silver double crankset

-IRD front derailleur

-Shimano Alivio rear derailleur

-MKS Grip Monarch pedals

-mismatched Shimano hubs, no name rims

-Soma Cazadero 650 x 42b

-Sackville bag

The only imperfections are the two small paint chips on the top tube, noted in the pictures. 

$2500 + shipping. 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Kim Hetzel."

Other people seem to also be looking at this bike. Robert Carlton said owner confirmed it's a 58. The facebook post has some comments and the owner says the bike is in Fargo ND.

I've been texting with someone (who says the bike is in LA) and he wants a $400 deposit to sell it to me for $1300 (complete bike, insane price). The whole thing is odd. They can't send me a pic with measure tape to prove a claim of 69cm standover. It sure doesn't look like a 54.5 based on every other Riv stack I've seen and studied. Our messages have been super cryptic. 

I just HOPE anyone else looking for a blue homer in 58 or 54.5 doesn't fall for a scam. Posting here amongst people I trust, admire, and have become friends with. My Roadini frame and dozens of parts on both my Rivs have been purchased from this group. I don't want to stir up any drama if this is in fact a legit sale, but the listing is from Jan 2023, 16 months old, this bike at any price under $2000 should be long gone on it's way to a new owner. PS. I'm not sending a deposit.

[Brenton Eastman]

The more I think about this the more fired up I get. I've had so many pleasant exchanges here, both transactional and non-transactional, that I feel protective of this group. If no scam is happening, no one will be bummed on me sharing out a phone number and email. 

I was direct messaged from 'Jeff McCathern' via jeff00m...@gmail.com who said they were friends with a seller named "Leonard" and I gave my phone number to that emailer.

The text message correspondence was with phone number 424-269-2563 which got super cryptic and scammy. When they told me the bike was in LA, I said I would happily have a friend (I have lots of friends in LA, some are in this group!) meet up to buy the bike, they accused me of being cautious and suggested a deposit.

Not sure who the admins of this group are, but everything about this says scam. I would love to be wrong.

[Kim H.]

@Brenton-

I am sorry to hear and see you go through this ordeal. I wish it was not so.

The administrator for this RBWOB group is Jim - cyclo...@gmail.com

Your message may take a day or two for him to respond. I hope he can help you.

My regards,

Kim Hetzel.

I got scammed too last year over these - https://global.bluelug.com/catalog/product/view/id/27109/s/rew10-works-hex-brass-valve-cap/category/1321/  last year.

[Nicholas A]

I think if somebody has a problem about you being cautious, they are not somebody you should do business with.

[Roberta]

My company is super cautious about Internet security, having us take lots of security courses.  One of the biggest email and internet securities red flags is money or action in an urgent timeframe. This sounds scamming to me.

By the way, I have a 54.5 homer and the picture is certainly not of a 54.5 bike. 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

That Jeff McCathern guy tried to sell me a Roadini. He’s a scammer. I wasn’t brave enough to say so publicly, but I will now.

On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 6:25:52 AM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

Kim, the link takes us directly to a blue lug page. How did you get scammed?  

BTW, I’ve gotten scammed too — with eBay. I will never not buy directly from the seller. 

[Andrew Joseph]

Bad experience with Jeff and the “seller,” he directed me to with a Homer as well!

I posted that I want to buy a Mustard frameset.  

Jeff directed me to his friend, and it went very badly from there.  Fortunately, I sent no payment.

I also reported this to Admin.  

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2024, at 5:29 AM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

That Jeff McCathern guy tried to sell me a Roadini. He’s a scammer. I wasn’t brave enough to say so publicly, but I will now.

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[Doug H.]

I concur. I sent this scammer Leah's way unknowingly. Stay away from this person. In this case his "cousin" just bought a Homer and so was selling his Roadini. He must troll this group for want to buy posts and pounces.  Karma is a concept of action, work, or deed, and its effect or consequences. Here's hoping that a little karma is heading his way.

Doug

[Hoch in ut]

I’m glad this has been brought up to keep others from getting scammed. 

If there are any others that need to be brought to the group’s attention, please speak up. I feel it’s our responsibility and duty to protect the group. Don’t be timid. See something, say something. 

[Eric Marth]

Kim: I don't see how the administrator of this forum has any bearing on someone's Facebook post. The scam is potentially occurring via Facebook, not our forum. You reposted the FB listing here with a link. 

Regarding the Blue Lug purchase, how on earth were you "scammed" by Blue Lug? They are one of the best bike shops in the universe and I'm sure they would correct any mistake or problem with your purchase. I dislike like the implication that Blue Lug would scam anyone. 

Regarding scams and buying/selling: If anything about the listing or your interactions with a seller makes you uncomfortable or sets off any alarms just drop the exchange and walk away. It's easy! If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Although sometimes you have to know when to snag a deal like when someone posts a Nitto S83 seatpost for $30. Sellers should be happy and eager to share photos or details about frames or bikes for sale. 

Here on the forum it's easy to check someone's history simply by searching their email address and reviewing their past posts to see if they participate in discussions, buy and sell goods and you can get a sense of how long they've been part of the community. All common sense stuff. 

Also — Don't end up handing $50,000 in cash to a stranger on the street! https://www.thecut.com/article/amazon-scam-call-ftc-arrest-warrants.html

[Robert Calton]

Good morning all, I did talk to this seller and ended up buying a different Homer frame from someone else. It's most definitely not a 54.5cm frame. I got the sense that their "client" is not local to them and they wouldn't be able to confirm any measurements, etc. 

If they're now saying $1300 for the complete bike, it's 200% a scam. Be safe out there. 

[Drew Fitchette]

The "Jeff" in question reached out to me in response to a WTB post. I asked what his "Friend" was selling and he said a 60cm Homer, which I thought was strange considering my post specifically said 54/55/56cm. 

A quick check to see that he'd never posted in the forum and I assumed it was nefarious. 

On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 9:20:37 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

[Robert Calton]

To add, Blue Lug is super legit, I've placed two orders with them this month and both were super smooth. Great prices, great parts availability that I couldn't find anywhere else, and fast shipping.

From what I gather, they're truly pillars of the Riv (and Riv-like bike) community. Watch some of their videos, they're true bike people through and through. You can order with confidence from them. 

On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 10:28:39 AM UTC-4 Brenton Eastman wrote:

All good points. I didn’t really think twice about “Jeff” private messaging me. I’ve always assumed best intent here with the RBW bunch. BUT that email address has never posted or contributed here. Red flag #1. The super confusing text messages were full of red flags and I’m walking away. 

I mostly wanted to post here as a warning to others that are interested and searching for AHHs. Within 20 minutes of me starting this thread, the text messager got word, and began to harass me. So, someone involved is watching the forum pretty closely. I’m annoyed that I wasted a few hours over a couple days unraveling the fact that it was indeed too good to be true. The search for my wife’s future Homer continues!! 

I’d +1 Eric’s comment that Blug Lug is 1000% legit and ever order I’ve placed with them is pleasant and exceeds my expectations. 

Finding some comedic relief here. Be careful folks!!

On May 3, 2024, at 6:20 AM, Eric Marth <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kim: I don't see how the administrator of this forum has any bearing on someone's Facebook post. The scam is potentially occurring via Facebook, not our forum. You reposted the FB listing here with a link. 

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[maxcr]

I also got looped in with a scammer through the FB group, probably the same guy. (for me it was a wheelset)

Should we consider asking the admin of this google group to turn the group private? I think the i-bob list did this recently and while it won't solve all problems, it might help.

Max

[Kim H.]

@Roberta and Eric -

Let me clarify how I was scammed. I posted here last July wanting to buy Blue Lug's

*REW10 WORKS* hex brass valve caps here in the states to save myself some monies in overseas shipping costs. 

Anita Batya saw my post and claimed that she had a pair. Anita told me that she lived in Seattle, of which is relatively close to me (This was a lie. She lived in Pennsylvania after doing some online homework after the fact). If I wanted them, she requested me to make a payment through a third party email address of which she claimed it was her bookkeeper. Anita told me that she was waiting for an answer from Paypal for a refund. I sent her money (I forgot what amount it was $50.00~?) several times. This kept going in circles over and over again. By then, I felt that there was something mighty strange and peculiar going on. I caught on that I was being scammed. I did not respond back to her. This was my first time being scammed over something that I really wanted. My apologies for there might be some holes left out from my recollection of my interaction with Anita.

Later down the road, there was other members herein and over on the IBOB group being scammed by Anita. Skip Montanaro, the administrator accepted Anita Batya's membership. When I told Skip that she was/is a scammer, he quickly took action and denied her membership.

https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/5FXmDXVSG6c/m/yGCjPQ3KBAAJ

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/WRzS3bBRKcc

Kim Hetzel.

[Jay]

I feel for those of you who have been scammed.  Hopefully, karma plays out for them, and perhaps you'll have a 'win' in the near future that makes up for it.

I'm almost to the point of quoting any online used buy/sell activity.

I've bought/sold bike stuff, and a few other categories of items, on kijiji for 10-15 years.  Pre-covid, didn't do too bad.  Most items would go in 1-2 weeks, a lot of views, responses were generally positive even if a sale didn't occur.  Most who did respond, got back to you even if they decided to pass on the item.  Likewise, I would message on things I was interested in, and most sellers were respectful and good to deal with.  During covid, selling was a piece of cake.  Now, sigh, about 90% of the interactions I've had are with pinheads.  People who in one minute seem so interested "I can be there today between 3-4pm", and when you say you're working, how about after dinner, you never here another word from them (this has happened with 8 out of the last 10 interactions).  I've had items listed for months with no activity.  I may donate a bunch of things to a bike collective or not-for-profit and hopefully the old parts (mainly saddles and stems) will go to a good home.  I'm a really positive person, but it's hard to be positive with a lot the online activity these days (and these are not scammers, just, pinheads!).

Buy/Sell looks great on this site.  I'm in Canada though so that's a bit of a challenge (though I do use cross border pick up site, and it works fine, both directions), plus I'm at my budget for spending on bike things, for now, and I have most of what I want.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

ADMIN HAT ON ///

Ok. I want to be very, very clear about this. 

I've definitely removed and suspended individuals from this group when they behaved inappropriately or they were clearly scams.

But there is really no way for me - or any other member of this group - to police some other group on Facebook.

If you have a problem with a seller on Facebook, it would be much more direct to take up with FB or the admin of that group. This is not the place for that. 

One of the reasons I limit posting for newer members is to try to filter out those who are clearly trying to scam folks. 

But I do not in any way want any member of this group to assume that some faceless person on the internet has been vetted for transactions. That responsibility lies with the buyer. Any member of this group can search other members to see how active they have been over the years. 

Caveat emptor. 

Let's have no confusion on that point. 

I felt it was inappropriate to drag content from a private transaction on separate on FB into this group, so I've locked this thread. 

// ADMIN HAT OFF

Thanks!

Jim 

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Follow up - 

I just reread the posts in this thread - I'm still confused (and don't really want to know all the details)....but just to be clear.

First
- There was an old post on FB (unrelated to this group at all)
- It's been there a while.
- It seems scammy.

Also
- Someone DM'd a group member (As I've mentioned before, this is possible even if the DM'ing member is moderated) saying a similar bike is for sale.
- That went scammy quickly.
- Others had experience with that individual which felt scammy.
- No one reported it to me.
- I've now removed _that_ individual who was on this list. 

Then
- there was a tangent about an older scammer (immediately removed from this group back when it happened, after someone brought it to my attention). 

Review:
- If someone solicits you via DM for a transaction and they have no presence on this list, I would err on the side of caution. There are plenty of solid group citizens here and very few scammers. But that does not mean you should simply trust someone who has contacted you. Verify. Ask for specifics. Engage in safe online transaction practices.

- And if someone is acting hinky, let the admin know... 

OK.  Enjoy your weekend!

Jim