Generations of Clems

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I have been searching, but cannot seem to find the differences between the first Clems (2015, yes?) and current Clems. I had thought there was some slight tweaking to the frames, and I remember something about a frame lock, but it’s nowhere on the website now, of course.

I’d be interested to know since my husband and mother in law have a pair of H & L from 2015, but my brother in law will (maybe next week!) have a 2018 metallic gray Clem L.

Thanks for all the knowledge sharing!
Leah

[Mike Packard]

Just off the top of my head here, but the biggest difference I remember of is that the older models has curved seat stays and the newer ones don't. Older came with Bosco Bullmoose bars instead of stem+bar combo, Shimano Altus derailleurs instead of Deore, and maybe included pedals and seat. I remember something about the seat tube becoming slightly tapered (like a baseball bat) but it's not obvious even in the close up photos.

Mike

[Carl]

The 2015 had Sunrace thumb shifters and the current model has Microshift. The Sunrace shifters have some quirks that have been discussed previously on the forum. I’m still enjoying using mine.

[Mark in Beacon]

First gen had curved seat stays, bigger diameter seat tube, L model had "Clementine" decal. I really really like the Clementine name, wish they kept that one, don't get the PC thing at all. Guess I'm old. 

[Kainalu V.]

The first and only generation of 65 Clems had straight seat stays because (I believe) they were the frame that was intended for the surplus of seat lug castings that were the original push to produce the frame in the first place. The curved seat stays were a work around to accommodate the smaller Clems use of that gargantuan seat lug.
So it stands to reason that the 65 Clem H is the one true Clem! With the assumption being that I've got my story straight..
-Kai
BKNY

[Leah Peterson]

Interesting. Why did they change the curved seat stays and diameter of the seat tube?

Sent from my iPad

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[Leah Peterson]

Sorry, Kai. I was typing my previous response as you were sending yours. So, did the seat lug change in the newer Clems so the stays could be straight on the smaller models?

Sent from my iPad

[Joe Bernard]

The sockets on the new Clem lugs are shorter, and point whatever direction they need to for straight seatstays. If you look at the listing for Clem H at Rivbike.com, the pics show the old lug on a butternut frame, new on grilver.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Kai is correct in that the curved stays of Clem v1 were a work around for the seatlug with fixed angle sockets for the seat stays. There was a second batch of Clem’s that came in 2016 in all sizes along with the only batch of 65clem H and these still had that same lug and curved stays but it was this v2 that did away with the bull moose Bosco on completes in lieu of 55cm cromo Bosco plus tallux. V3 came with the newer ball and socket seatlug and straight stays on the smaller sizes, and this batch included the 64cm Clem L too. Not 100% sure the 65cm Clem was THE originally intended frame (or a variation of the original design) for that monster seatlug but they did confirm in a blog somewhere that it(the v1 seatlug) was originally designed and made for a large model that was meant to come in one size only. I had actually asked Will this exact question as part of a bigger multi part question via email before the 65 Clem H arrived at HQ (I had already placed my deposit in the preorder though for a 65.) I was basically trying to confirm all potential frame options for my 97pbh when analyzing my current stable and future biking needs and initially contemplating a downsized stable. I had asked if the 65cm was that original design or whether there was any chance that another large frame would be coming if that original design was still under consideration. Interestingly, that was the only part not clearly given an answer (whether 65Clem H was the original one size big bike mentioned) and I had a good laugh at this, interpreting it as not wanting that to be known for certain, ha. He had confirmed the 65clem H was the the one big bike for the time being but that a couple possibilities were still down the pipeline. The Will’s Mega Mountain Step Thru Rosco was already known to be in the works but not yet posted for sale. No mention yet of the 64Clem L at the time so I assume this was one of those possibilities, which came to fruition after the great response to the mega mountain Rosco.

The question remains whether or not we’ll see that Clem v1 seatlug again or have they been all used up and was the 65cm “the one”?

More frequent Riv visitors may already know the answer to that and I’m not really that concerned about knowing, but just wanted to share what I’d DID know of that topic.

Best,
Brian Cole
Lawrenceville NJ

[John Buglino]

If memory serves the most major change was switch from curved stays over to the ball and socket seat lug. Might be others I don’t remember.

Enjoy the ride

John in Jersey City

[Ana Candela]

Totally agree with Mark - Clementine is a fabulous name. Lots of personality! :)

[Leah Peterson]

Thanks, everyone, I knew you would know. I will get to see my BIL’s bike in July, and I’m going to look for all the details you’ve described. I will also see my MIL’S Clementine that month, so it ought to be noticeable.

And yes, Ana, I so agree! Wonder if we could ever beg hard enough to bring back Clementine? Grant hit it out of the park with that name. And I think it’d be nice to have one Rivendell model with a feminine name in the lineup.

Sent from my iPad

> On May 27, 2018, at 10:15 AM, Ana Candela <netma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Totally agree with Mark - Clementine is a fabulous name. Lots of personality! :)
>

[Mark in Beacon]

When I read that there was push back on the name as, I don't know, sexist, or stereotype-confirming, or whatever, I suggested that the model drop "Clem Smith Jr." and be called the Clementine H or L. That would take a big pair of Wilburys. Unrelated fact: A good friend's 5-year-old daughter is named Clementine. She's completely awesome, too!

Here she is with my son Mack (sporting summer haircut from dad) and her sister Tilly at last year's D2R2 family ride:

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

There’s still one remaining Clementine option available for the tall folks. I’ve strongly considered doing this as a backup frame but doing so is a little excessive and out of the budget right now. But green 65cm undecaled frames can be had with Clementine decals applied!
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/web-special-frames/products/2016-clem-smith-jr-h-green-blem

[Garth]

  Well gee, riding a step through bike with curvy swoop to it ..... and then being concerned over the "name" written on it ..... ahahahahahahaahah !     How silly indeed .  If someone is going to mock someone for "riding a girls bike" as the stereo-type goes ..... it would be based on the shape of the bike, not a few letters written on the paint. Since one cannot control the shape of the frame, as it would not be a Clementine without it's shape, they pick on "the name" , as if THAT is going to change one iota anything about a Clementine BEING A CLEMENTINE !   H A H  !    " I can defend my own honor if the bike is named Clem-L" .... and that is what it's really about ... defending one's "sense" of identity... because it's as fragile as an hog in a china shop and when the hog comes in and messes knocks all your precious possessions(your sense of identity of course) ..... it is just too much to take... so the apparent cause, the hog ... is hereby thrown out.  But take away one hog, along comes another ... and another .... to no end ... until you give up the ghost.... the ghost of vanity and futility for the Truth that's always True. 

[Garth]

My darling Clementine ..... my darling Clementine ..... forever Clementine be forever Clementine 😀


She be exactly as She be .... forever Clementime .

Let her be ... let her not ..... regardless ever she be ..... forever Clementine 😀😀

[Mark in Beacon]

The original original Clems were supposed to have the option of choosing your decal letters from the letters that spelled Clem Smith Jr. Or something along those lines--I'm probably not remembering exactly. So you could name your bike The Slim Jr. or Mr. Jim or something like that. But then something happened, and it didn't happen.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Oh yeah, that’s right... forgot about that. I think that part even made it into the original Clem brochure but was a last minute change. The garage sale Clem H 65cm frames only specify Clem vs Clementine vs no decal so I wonder if those lettered decals will ever get used on another project? I liked the idea of a green 65cm Clementine to complement my mustard Clem and I could build them up differently and better compare varied setups. I also have Resurrectio decals I never got around to using that I’d consider for an undecaled frame. The choose your own name decal set is a fun idea though.

[Rod Holland]

It would be dandy if Riv made Clementine decals available...

rod

[lconley]

I have one of the original Clementines, 52 cm. It has curved seatstays with threaded mounting bosses for a ring lock on the underside of the seatstays (to which I attached an AXA ring lock, I also have the accessory chain that plugs into the ring lock). It also came with two headbadges, one in bronze color and one in pewter color. The pewter went on the frame and the bronze is in the parts stash.

The original plan for early adopters was to be able to get whatever lettering you wanted on the downtube. There was some mix-up at the painters and that didn't happen, but if you asked, Riv supplied a decal set - 2 full alphabets of letters with additional duplicates of many of the letters. I have the decal set but have yet to use any. 

Laing

Cocoa, FL

[Joe Bernard]

I put that frame lock on my second-gen 52 L..what a gigantic pain in the patooey to install. I still have it (the lock) plus the install kit for frames which don't have the braze-ons, but haven't bothered to mount on my Chev yet. Maybe someday...