Rust-proofing your frames

[Mark Reimer]

Today I rode to work in the sloppiest snowy junk in a while. Despite being -18C, it was still slush due to all the de-icer on the streets. It sticks to my frame like glue and makes me worried about it rusting to pieces. Particularly as I was in my LBS yesterday looking at an IRO steel frame that had two big long holes on the inside of each chain stay after ten years of riding. My Atlantis is 10 years old this year.. I hope to keep it MUCH longer. 

What do you guys use for internal rust inhibitors? I can't get JPW Framesaver here without paying up the arse for shipping. Thinking about linseed oil, though I've heard it's a real mess. Any tips? Fluid Film rust inhibitor spray is available locally and is a mix of wax and oil. Also have heard Amsoil HDMP is good, but seems tricky to find here as well. 

(Also I know fenders would help. But they aren't an option at the moment, just looking for rust prevention)

[Garth]

  Boeshield can work and is available in Canada I believe. It creates a dry wax-like film but it's not as viscous and sticky as Framesaver . Just apply it more often if in question .

[Philip Kim]

T-9 Boeshield available where you are?

[Shoji Takahashi]

I've heard Fluid Film is terrific. (Can't remember which group I saw it recommended, but I wrote it down on my hardware store list.) No experience with it, though.

shoji

On Friday, January 8, 2016 at 11:08:23 AM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:

[Mark Reimer]

It seems my best bet at this point - non-corrosive and non-toxic is a plus too. I'll have to strip the bike down over the weekend and give it the goods. Nice excuse to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon wrenching on the bike. I can finally get around to replacing my pitted headset too!

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[drew]

amsoil hdmp is, from what i can tell, the exact same thing as jpw frame saver.  it's awesome. boeshield feels watery and runny, but amsoil/framesaver sticks and runs the right amount to make you confident that its on, and staying on, all surfaces. 

if you are worried about rust that you already have, i had great luck refurbishing a rust bucket frame with THIS product. 

i stripped the frame, plugged all holes, filled the frame with the liquid for about a day, dumped it out and with it came the rust. then just applied amsoil. 

[Mark Reimer]

Ah, I'm familiar with that product. And on that note, can't believe I forgot about this, I JUST rust treated a 40 year old motorcycle tank. It was naaaasty rusty inside. Guess what ate the rust clean off, is dirt cheap, can be dumped onto the street after, and available everywhere? 

White vinegar! 

I filled the tank (which was completely lined with rust) with vinegar, and added a few small sheet metal screws to knock the rust loose when I'd shake it. I let it sit for about a week, shaking it a few times a day. A week might have been way more than needed. but the point is, it came out 100% clean. I then treated it with an epoxy tank liner product to prevent rust from returning, which I wouldn't ever do on a bike frame, but the vinegar would certainly be a good rust treatment for inside a rusty bicycle frame. 

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[drew]

thats really interesting. i've heard about white vinegar but never quite believed it would do a thorough job.  glad to hear that it actually works that well. 

[William deRosset]

Dear Mark,

Another option:

LPS 3 is commonly used in marine environments. It is available in Canada, at your local marina or possibly at your local hardware store. I got a spray can (close to a lifetime supply for me) at Ace Hardware. It feels pretty similar to the cosmoline+ carrier Framesaver.

  

Best,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[Ryan Fleming]

Hi Mark...I would definitely spray something in your frame...we've used Boeshield and LPS3 and I've had my frames sprayed a couple of times over the years. I suspect your Atlantis was initially treated with Boeshield or LPS3 or some such, but the treatment does  need to be periodically repeated. Lee Valley used to sell a really good lubricant,  with , I think, lanolin as an ingredient but I don't see it there

[Kieran J]

I've bought Boeshield at Lee Valley in the recent past. Some LBSs carry it too.

KJ

[Mark Reimer]

Took the plunge last night and stripped the Atlantis down to the frame and gave it a good dose of FluidFilm. The stuff sprays on nice and easy. I used painters tape to seal off the bottom end of each tube, sprayed from the top liberally, the taped off the top and end spun the frame around to coat everything inside. Mess was minimal and I was able to apply it inside my apartment. This morning it looks like the stuff has started to cure a bit, into a yellowish thin film. The can says it will never harden, but rather retain a soft waxy feel. Tonight I'll re-assemble the bike. Sad news was I discovered my Phil BB, less than a year old, has notchy bearings already. Not impressed. 

[Kieran J]

Thanks for the report-back, Mark. I'll keep this in mind for my upcoming frames.

KJ

[Tim Gavin]

I had my '88 Schwinn KOM blasted and powder coated clear (with a light sparkle) this winter.  (I'll take some pictures soon).

I treated the frame with Boeshield the other night.  I plugged the tubes with wadded-up paper towels, sprayed in the Boeshield, and then rotisseried the tube to try to coat it evenly.

Boeshield is relatively thin, and runs and drips easily.  It's advisable to do over a surface you can wipe clean or don't care about.  But it was an easy task, and the frame and fork took me about 15 minutes.

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[Ryan Fleming]

I would try sending it to phil wood...I feel like it should last longer than it did

[Mark Reimer]

Yeah I thought about that, but that will put it out of service for at least two weeks, plus 30 bucks in shipping. Alternatively I could go down to a bearing supplier and get equally high end bearings for under 30 bucks and replace them myself, have it back on the road in an evening. Phil has been good to me with fast turn-around and customer service, it's just the US/Canada thing that gets in the way. 

I've heard of their BB's lasting way, way longer than mine on a regular occasion. My suspicion is that my bearings are rough either because they've been submerged in water briefly (remember the s24o report where I attempted to carrying the Atlantis across a swamp? The bb definitely took a bath), or they were over-torqued on installation (I didn't use a torque wrench, next time I will. I've found reports online of premature bearing wear as a result of over tightening). 

[Anton Tutter]

I've had Phil BB bearings go bad in just one season from water intrusion. In my case, it wasn't even submersion or winter riding. Regular rainwater had made its way into the frame and pooled down at the BB shell. I removed the Phil after noticing it was spinning a little rough, and sure enough there were rust stains all over it and inside the BB shell. It was out of warranty, so I had no choice but to pony up for new bearings. At least Phil doesn't charge much for servicing; the bulk of the cost is the bearings themselves.  But I was annoyed-- those bearings should withstand water intrusion better than they do.

Anton

[Anton Tutter]

Good luck with the FluidFilm, I've heard the stuff is great. I had been using FrameSaver and liked it a lot, but switched to Boeshield once when there seemed to be a worldwide shortage of FrameSaver.  Boeshield doesn't seem to dry as waxy as FrameSaver, and whatever residue it leaves behind is very thin, but I suppose it's better than nothing.

If you haven't already put a new BB in, while the BB shell is empty you might want to drill a small (1/8") hole through the bottom of the BB shell if the Atlantis's shell isn't already drilled. It is the best way to ensure that any trapped moisture or even standing water drains and vents. You can dab a little FluidFilm on the bare metal exposed from drilling. I've done this on a few bikes and have been glad I did.

Anton

On Monday, January 11, 2016 at 10:35:59 AM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:

[Mark Reimer]

Thanks Anton - the Atlantis already has a hole right at the bottom of the shell. I was pleasantly surprised to find very little surface rust anywhere inside the frame. I obviously couldn't see inside the seat and chain stays, but the chain stays are sloped downwards so any rust would probably be toward the BB shell, which looked clean so far as I could see. I treated external surface rust with some clear nail polish, which is a short-term fix. I've rubbed the paint off from muddy tires and dropped chains, so it's fairly minor, but this should help slow it down till I one-day repaint it. 

Regarding the Phil BB - I was using their new weather shields. I started to wonder if they actually trap water INSIDE, rather than keep it out. I mean of course they keep a lot of water out. But if the bb is ever submerged momentarily, I could see them filling up and retaining water against the seals. This is just a suspicion, I have no way of knowing it. Either way, the only point of entry for water to access the bearings on a Phil BB would be from the outside (the inside is protected by the bearing retaining shell and mounting rings), so clearly they aren't preventing moisture from getting at them very well. I hope I can find some good bearings locally and fabricate some kind of bearing press to install them. Bummer that I JUST traded my other Phil BB with new bearings in it for a WI BB!

[Chris Chen]

FWIW I've been very happy with the SKF bottom bracket Compass sells.

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[Geoffrey]

I've gone through a couple cans of frame saver and I've gone through many cans of motorcycle chain lube and I tell you they look, smell and feel the nearly identical.  I haven't used it yet on a frame but I'm sure it'll work, I'm going to try on my next steel build. 

For the exterior, I put a heavy coat of car wax on and then don't wipe it off or polish at all.  I do that in the spring.