[RBW] paul's racer brakes vs cantis questions

[J C]

Hello hip listers,

Do any of you use the Paul's racer or the racer m(edium) brakes? How would you compare them to the neo retros?  Do you know if the racer m brake works if the centerpull is a bit skewed to one side or another- eg is the spring tension on the brakes adjustable on both sides?  They look like it in the photos.  

Do you have any brake squeal issues using the racers?  Have you seen any chain stay mounted versions- are they just glorified u brakes?  Would you buy them again?  Are you using them on 700c wheels?

Thanks for the help

Studies show that fish live longer when you don't eat them.

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[cyclotourist]

I have Neos on a 700c and Racers on a 650b.  LOVE both of them.  Just as strong, no brake squeal at all with either.  Just perfect brakes.  They are both able to adjust each side as needed, although I've never touched the Racers.  Racers would win in a shoot out for best brake due to that.  Mine are the kind that have the adapter mount, not brazed on posts.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy

[Paul Price]

Hey-

Thanks for that. We're pretty proud of our brakes. If you ever get a chance the braze-on version is really nice. It adds a level of stiffness and aesthetics. 

The Racer M(edium) is poised to kick butt on anything out there. It just adds power the stronger you squeeze it, and looks cool too. I have a Salsa Cassaroll with them and 45mm fenders and 32mm tires with absolutely no clearance issues and no fender squeezing either.

Paul

[cyclotourist]

If I was getting a new bike, I'd definitely get the braze-on models.

The one downside I should mention so as not to seem biased:  Once you try them, you'll never want any other kind of brakes!

Really, they're just great.  Thanks for making 'em!

[Me]

Paul Comp are THE best brakes made in the world these days.

-my next ride is going with Racer-canti, the Bleriot is set for Racer-
bolts, and Chloe's new "LHT" is going to get the Neo/Touring combo
soon-

Every good bike in the world should be stopping with Paul Comp brakes.

-Scott

On May 13, 10:38 pm, Paul Price <p...@paulcomp.com> wrote:
> Hey-
>
> Thanks for that. We're pretty proud of our brakes. If you ever get a  
> chance the braze-on version is really nice. It adds a level of  
> stiffness and aesthetics.
>
> The Racer M(edium) is poised to kick butt on anything out there. It  
> just adds power the stronger you squeeze it, and looks cool too. I  
> have a Salsa Cassaroll with them and 45mm fenders and 32mm tires with  
> absolutely no clearance issues and no fender squeezing either.
>
> Paul
> On May 13, 2010, at 10:16 PM, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have Neos on a 700c and Racers on a 650b.  LOVE both of them.  
> > Just as strong, no brake squeal at all with either.  Just perfect  
> > brakes.  They are both able to adjust each side as needed, although  
> > I've never touched the Racers.  Racers would win in a shoot out for  
> > best brake due to that.  Mine are the kind that have the adapter  
> > mount, not brazed on posts.
>

> > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:41 AM, J C <chive...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello hip listers,
>
> > Do any of you use the Paul's racer or the racer m(edium) brakes?  
> > How would you compare them to the neo retros?  Do you know if the  
> > racer m brake works if the centerpull is a bit skewed to one side  
> > or another- eg is the spring tension on the brakes adjustable on  
> > both sides?  They look like it in the photos.
>
> > Do you have any brake squeal issues using the racers?  Have you  
> > seen any chain stay mounted versions- are they just glorified u  
> > brakes?  Would you buy them again?  Are you using them on 700c wheels?
>
> > Thanks for the help
>
> > Studies show that fish live longer when you don't eat them.
>
> > --
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> > group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
>
> > "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is  
> > something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a  
> > gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy
>
> > --
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[MichaelH]

I have used the Neo- Retros for a few years now - no squeals, very
easy set up & adjustment when needed, which is rare. Great stopping
power and modulation. I have the studded Racers on a brand new tandem
with 26" wheels. Pretty new (Pictures coming soon) but my first
impression is very positive. Set up is very similar to the neos, and
stopping power seems excellent, although it's hard to do a direct
comparison between a tandem and a single. I'm going to convert my
Rambouillet to the new Racer Ms as soon as the budget permits. Paul's
brakes are like a good frame - something that will give a lifetime of
pleasure. Three months after you buy them you forget about the
price. The Racers just clear my 1.6 Schawalbe Marathon Racer (1.5
actual). Clearance on the neos is only limited by width of the fork,
since the pads hit inside of it.

Michael

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2010-05-13 at 12:41 -0600, J C wrote:
> Hello hip listers,
>
>
>
>
> Do any of you use the Paul's racer

I have brazed-on Paul Racers on my Velo Orange Randonneur. Best brakes
I've ever used, bar none.

> or the racer m(edium) brakes? How would you compare them to the neo
> retros?

I've never used the Neo Retro so I can't compare. However, unless
you're thinking about a custom, your frame will dictate. As long as you
have canti posts mounted on the frame in the correct position for
cantilever brakes, the Racers are ruled out.

> Do you know if the racer m brake works if the centerpull is a bit
> skewed to one side or another- eg is the spring tension on the brakes
> adjustable on both sides? They look like it in the photos.

Yes, independently adjusted on each side.

>
>
>
> Do you have any brake squeal issues using the racers?

My front brake squeals a bit, back not at all.

> Have you seen any chain stay mounted versions

no

> - are they just glorified u brakes? Would you buy them again?

absolutely

> Are you using them on 700c wheels?

yes

Here's the bike in question:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/sets/72157606169015639/show/

[JoelMatthews]

> I have brazed-on Paul Racers on my Velo Orange Randonneur. Best brakes
> I've ever used, bar none.

I am lucky enough to have a set of NOS Raids. Otherwise I would have
gone with original Paul Racers on my upcoming Rando.

The new Paul Racer Ms look so nice I am trying to figure out what sort
of frame I should have built around them

[JoelMatthews]

> Thanks for that. We're pretty proud of our brakes. If you ever get a
> chance the braze-on version is really nice. It adds a level of
> stiffness and aesthetics.

Paul: Big fan of your product and your company's way of doing
business.

Thanks for posting here. Now that Riv is making the Hilsen in
Wateford, I have been hoping Grant and crew will find a way to have a
Paul spec braze on option.

Racer Ms are a perfect match for the Hilsen.

On May 14, 12:38 am, Paul Price <p...@paulcomp.com> wrote:
> Hey-
>
> Thanks for that. We're pretty proud of our brakes. If you ever get a  
> chance the braze-on version is really nice. It adds a level of  
> stiffness and aesthetics.
>
> The Racer M(edium) is poised to kick butt on anything out there. It  
> just adds power the stronger you squeeze it, and looks cool too. I  
> have a Salsa Cassaroll with them and 45mm fenders and 32mm tires with  
> absolutely no clearance issues and no fender squeezing either.
>
> Paul
> On May 13, 2010, at 10:16 PM, cyclotourist wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have Neos on a 700c and Racers on a 650b.  LOVE both of them.  
> > Just as strong, no brake squeal at all with either.  Just perfect  
> > brakes.  They are both able to adjust each side as needed, although  
> > I've never touched the Racers.  Racers would win in a shoot out for  
> > best brake due to that.  Mine are the kind that have the adapter  
> > mount, not brazed on posts.
>

> > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:41 AM, J C <chive...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hello hip listers,
>
> > Do any of you use the Paul's racer or the racer m(edium) brakes?  
> > How would you compare them to the neo retros?  Do you know if the  
> > racer m brake works if the centerpull is a bit skewed to one side  
> > or another- eg is the spring tension on the brakes adjustable on  
> > both sides?  They look like it in the photos.
>
> > Do you have any brake squeal issues using the racers?  Have you  
> > seen any chain stay mounted versions- are they just glorified u  
> > brakes?  Would you buy them again?  Are you using them on 700c wheels?
>
> > Thanks for the help
>
> > Studies show that fish live longer when you don't eat them.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> > Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-
> > bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch
> > +unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/
> > group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
>
> > "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is  
> > something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a  
> > gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy
>
> > --
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[Patrick in VT]

On May 13, 2:41 pm, J C <chive...@gmail.com> wrote:

I use the neo-retro (front)/touring (rear) brake set-up on my cx
bike. great brakes - you can dial these in to suit your needs and
riding style, which is really nice. they can be super-grabby, or
you can set 'em up just to scrub some speed. awesome.

I also use the racer (braze-on version) on another bike. and I'll
second what Steve said - best brakes I've ever used. squeeze a
little, stop a little. squeeze a little more, stop a little more.
there's just an incredible amount of modulation, and they give a
feeling of control like i've never had with any other brake.

I'd buy any of paul's brakes again - i might go for the moto-lite on
my mtb!

my preference so far, though, is definitely the racer.

[Buck]

I have Paul Touring Cantis on my Atlantis. They replaced some Avid V-
brakes. I l-o-v-e the Cantis. I really do. But... I honestly can't say
that they stop me any faster than the way-cheaper Avids or feel $150
better. Maybe it depends on the kind of riding you do. For me, to a
large extent, (good) brakes is brakes. And you can get good brakes for
$50. The Cantis are definitely terrific and trouble-free. Very
adjustable (though mine still squeal a little and might need a tweak).
For me, the best part is that I have complete confidence in them and
they just look so coooooooooooooooool. That's important to me on this
bike. Other bikes I've had it didn't matter. Here's my two cents. If
everything else on your bike is the way you want it and you have the $$
$ burning a hole in your pocket (I did), no better way to spend it
than on Pauls. But I'd put several things on my gotta-have list before
$200 brakes:

A Brooks seat (or equivalent)
The perfect bag (I have an Acorn handlebar bag)
Put the $200 towards great wheels
Honjos plus maybe some tires
New derailers/shifters

But that's just me.

On May 13, 2:41 pm, J C <chive...@gmail.com> wrote:

[CCX]

That is a sweet bike Steve. Thanks for the update on the brakes.

Thanks to the rest of you who replied too,

jc

[Ken]

I have the same set up on my Atlantis. Last year the front squealed,
this year its the back. I tilt the pad out, I tilt them in, and still
they squeal. Maybe Paul's still listening?

[Gino Zahnd]

Ken -

Toe yer brake pads properly, and make sure they're aligned on the rim
properly. That should kill the squeal.
See also: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=19

Cheers,
Gino

[Ken]

Thanks for the link. The bad alignment example looks very familiar. I
was focused on Toe in and not making sure the pad was lined up
properly. Hopefully that does it.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 20:07 -0700, happyriding wrote:

> On May 13, 11:38 pm, Paul Price <p...@paulcomp.com> wrote:
> > Hey-
> >
> > Thanks for that. We're pretty proud of our brakes.
>

> Hi Paul,
>
> Do you have any pictures on your website that compare 'silver
> anodized' to 'high polish'? Or, can you direct me to pictures of each
> type?

"High polish" looks like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/97916047@N00/2668209327/sizes/o/in/set-72157606169015639/

"Silver anodized" looks like this:
http://paulcomp.com/images/racermain.png

[Steve Palincsar]

On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 19:21 -0700, happyriding wrote:

> On May 14, 1:21 am, Me <clotht...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Paul Comp are THE best brakes made in the world these days.
> >
> > -my next ride is going with Racer-canti,
>

> What is the Paul Racer-canti? I don't see it on the Paul website.

He must mean the brazed-on post model.

[Me]

Yep, I do.

As in, "Cantilever Posts" which are brazed-on.

-Scott

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 12:21 -0700, Me wrote:
> Yep, I do.
>
> As in, "Cantilever Posts" which are brazed-on.

Except that in this case, they're not for cantilever brakes, but rather
for centerpulls.

[S.Cutshall]

True, dat... but they attach via cantilever posts [which were
originally conceived for attaching cantilever brakes and not
centerpulls].

;-)

-Scott

[Patrick in VT]

On May 17, 3:35 pm, "S.Cutshall" <clotht...@gmail.com> wrote:
> True, dat... but they attach via cantilever posts [which were
> originally conceived for attaching cantilever brakes and not
> centerpulls].

hmm, but if you tried to run cantilever brakes on "these" cantilever
posts, it wouldn't work out so well.

and in that sense, it is perhaps a misnomer to call them "cantilever"
posts.

are there any epistemologists on this list? can a cantilever post
*be* a cantilever post if a cantilever brake can't be used on it?

[PATRICK MOORE]

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Patrick in VT <psh...@drm.com> wrote:

are there any epistemologists on this list?  can a cantilever post
*be* a cantilever post if a cantilever brake can't be used on it?

It's only a cantilever post if it is actually, at this moment, supporting a cantilever brake arm. Otherwise it's only a potential cantilever post.

Patrick "if a tree falls in the forest, etc etc etc" Moore 

--
Patrick Moore
Albuquerque, NM
For professional resumes, contact
Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumesp...@gmail.com
(505) 227-0523

[Patrick in VT]

On May 17, 4:10 pm, PATRICK MOORE <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's only a cantilever post if it is actually, at this moment, supporting a
> cantilever brake arm. Otherwise it's only a potential cantilever post.
>
> Patrick "if a tree falls in the forest, etc etc etc" Moore

Thank you, Patrick. I have a hard time with such questions. And, so
it follows that since the "racer" mount is not supporting - indeed, it
has not event the potential to support - a cantilever brake, we can
not rightly refer to this mount as a cantilever post, lest we violate
certain laws of truth and knowledge.

[Horace]

What where they called when they were sitting around the bike builder's shop? What was the label on the box that they came in???? Sorry, too amusing not to ask.

Horace.

[Steve Palincsar]

On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 15:15 -0700, Horace wrote:
> What where they called when they were sitting around the bike
> builder's shop? What was the label on the box that they came in????
> Sorry, too amusing not to ask.

According to the Paul web site, they are "...centerpull brake bosses.
These are similar to cantilever bosses, but are in a different position.

"It is important to note that the Braze-On Racer does not mount to brake
bosses in the standard cantilever position, nor will it fit on U-Brake
bosses. Framebuilders should refer to the included instructions for
mounting dimensions, or email in...@paulcomp.com for more information."

-- http://paulcomp.com/racer.html

[Gino Zahnd]

They were called cantilever bosses.

(I think this thread is now officially not RBW in nature.)

[S.Cutshall]

When I apprenticed with a couple different framebuilders, they always
called them 'Bosses' or 'Posts'...

http://www.bikeparts.com/pimage/BPC311130.jpg

I usually called them something far worse when 'cleaning up' & filing
the brazes to smooth.

-Scott

On May 17, 3:15 pm, Horace <max...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> What where they called when they were sitting around the bike builder's
> shop? What was the label on the box that they came in???? Sorry, too amusing
> not to ask.
>
> Horace.
>
> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:07 PM, Patrick in VT <psh...@drm.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 3:35 pm, "S.Cutshall" <clotht...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > True, dat... but they attach via cantilever posts [which were
> > > originally conceived for attaching cantilever brakes and not
> > > centerpulls].
>
> > hmm, but if you tried to run cantilever brakes on "these" cantilever
> > posts, it wouldn't work out so well.
>
> > and in that sense, it is perhaps a misnomer to call them "cantilever"
> > posts.
>
> > are there any epistemologists on this list?  can a cantilever post
> > *be* a cantilever post if a cantilever brake can't be used on it?
>
> > --
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[Paul Price]

That is the correct, or one of the correct posts, or bosses. I
interchange the terms but they both mean that thing. True, you won't
be mounting cantilevers on them, but all our brakes use the same
pivot setup that fits on those.

There are several different styles, that one in the picture has a
large offset, it's good for bikes with wide stays/blades. There are
others with a much straighter path to the frame tube. Those are the
ones to use, or your frame builder should use. Nova Cycle Supply has
some pictures of them. Don't look to hard because before you know it
you'll be shopping for a torch........and lug sets and super light
tubing......and an Anvil frame fixture. I'm suffering that problem as
I write this.

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/CANTI-AND-U-BRAKE-
BOSSES/

In either case it is important to build a simple fixture to keep the
distance between the posts correct and keep them parallel to one
another. Then mount them in the fixture and miter them to fit the
tubes on the frame. This part is important as the side to side
distance is critical, and the miters must match, pretty well, the the
tubes they are to be brazed to. You can also cut a lot off the end
to be brazed to the frame tubes to get the brake arms in closer to
the frame for a stiffer setup.

Paul
www.paulcomp.com

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[Blindrobert]

Wow - I guess I am the only person who had these brakes and didn't
care for them. I ordered my AHH built with the polished center mount
version of the Racer and found them to be rather problematic. Neither
the folks at Rivendell nor my LBS were able to help with the problems
I was having:

Problem number one: to remove the wheel, I had to really fight to get
the straddle wire free. When the brakes were adjusted with the pads
running close to the rim, I couldn't close them enough to get the
straddle wire out easily - even after hitting the QR button on the
brake levers.

Problem number two: the brakes wouldn't center up consistently after
braking. They would be fine 75% of the time, but every now and then
(and at least once a ride) the front or rear would spring back
unevenly, leaving one pad rubbing the rim. The folks at Rivendell
weren't able to make this happen with a pair in their shop no matter
how much they tried. I tried adjusting the spring tensions, and
finally took it in to my LBS who adjusted the brakes, but I kept
having the same problem.

I am a pretty good mechanic and routinely build up and break down my
own bikes - there aren't a lot of complicated things to adjust on a
brake so this problem was really frustrating. It went on for months
before I finally swapped them out for a pair of Silvers and sold them
at a hefty loss.

I want to close saying that I continue to be a fan of Paul Components,
I am having a touring bike built and will use their cantis on that
bike, I use their e-lever on two of my fixed gear bikes, and would
love to own one of their road cranks some day.

Roberto

[Gino Zahnd]

Disclosure: Paul is a good friend of mine.

Regarding the straddle wire, that sounds like a setup problem to me. I
run Paul brakes on a few of my bikes, and that's not a problem with
any of them. In fact, just squeezing the centerpulls by the pads
should release the cable, or close to it. Without seeing your setup
though, it's hard to say where the problem may have been.

Regarding spring tension, did you try a set of replacement springs? I
had an issue with a brake not centering, picked up a new spring, and
it fixed the problem.

-Gino in Chico, CA

[Rob Harrison]

Speaking of Paul's centerpulls, my new-to-me Saluki has the polished
versions. Haven't ridden it yet, still setting it up, but I noticed
this morning the chrome on all of the brake pad fixing post nuts--the
5mm hex domed ones--is flaking off and rusting. Anyone know if those
available in stainless, or as separate replacement parts?

Rob in Seattle

On May 19, 2010, at 8:24 AM, Gino Zahnd <gino...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Disclosure: Paul is a good friend of mine.
>

[Gino Zahnd]

Buy new brake pads, and you get new nuts. Those aren't a PAUL part,
just part of the brake pad.
http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/index.php

[Rob Harrison]

I'll be darned. That's clever. I haven't owned a bike with centerpull
brakes in the modern era. (Obviously.) Last centerpulls I had were
Weinmanns, in 1977. :)

Thanks Gino!

Rob in Seattle

On May 19, 2010, at 3:39 PM, Gino Zahnd wrote:

> Buy new brake pads, and you get new nuts. Those aren't a PAUL part,
> just part of the brake pad.
> http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/index.php

[Jon Grant]

From: Gino Zahnd wrote:

Buy new brake pads, and you get new nuts.

=======

Boy howdy, I wish it were that easy.

--
Jon ³Feeling every bit of 51 years old today² Grant, in
Austin, Texas

[cyclotourist]

FWIW, Dave Zabriskie is leading the ATOC.

--
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

"Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym."  ~Bill Nye, scientist guy