Building up a 45cm Clem for a 5'2 rider

[Igor]

Any suggestions or ways to "know" what stem or bars to use? Not sure where to begin.

[Richard Rose]

A lot of nice bars to choose from. That said, the Bosco is perfect. The extra rise is great as it results in less stem exposed than with the Tosco. I suggest one of the three FacePlater stems makes life so much easier & the older tig welded one is currently on sale, I think. But, without the frame & handlebar at hand it’s guesswork at best regarding stem length. I am 5’10”, ride a 52 Clem with Bosco & 135 FacePlater. I do not know how much shorter the reach is on the 45, but I would guess a stem closer to 70-80? Call Riv & ask them, they give excellent advice. Or, try to get your hands n a few different (cheap) stems to try?

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On Apr 4, 2024, at 9:28 PM, Igor <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any suggestions or ways to "know" what stem or bars to use? Not sure where to begin.

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[Kim H.]

@Igor -

I have a couple of Terry women's saddles that are lightly used to sell, if you are interested for your lady friend.

https://www.terrybicycles.com/Cite-X-Gel-Italia

https://www.terrybicycles.com/Liberator-X

Contact me off this group for more details and pictures.

Kim Hetzel.

[John Johnson]

Hi Igor,

For a 5'2" rider (I'm not going to assume it's for a lady or for your friend!), the 45cm Clem is perfect. Obviously there is no "objective" right answer for which bars to use, and it's gonna depend on different factors (I know I'm not dropping any mind-blowing information, but just to lay the groundwork for my suggestions). 

I'd ask the following questions:

• What year Clem is it? The older Clems had shorter top tubes (less reach) than the newer (2019 and post) models. 
• What is the intended use? Tooling around, commuting, touring, mountain biking? 
• How does the rider like to be positioned? Aggressive and racy? Upright and comfy? 
• What is the rider's morphology? Long torso, short legs? Long legs, short torso? Normal legs, normal torso?
• Are there aesthetic considerations? 
• Are there cost considerations?

For me (an N of 1 - I am 5'8", longer torso with very short legs, for reference), I currently ride a Clem 45 L (longer reach 2019 model, but still with 26" wheels before the switch to 27.5") with a 70cm Nitto Tallux at the minimum insertion and 60cm Tosco bars and I couldn't be happier. My wife rides a Clem 45 L with Soma Oxford bars and I really like that set up too, but I find the Oxfords at 54cm (identical to Nitto Albatross) a tad bit narrow for my taste. I rode my pre-2019 Clem H with a Riv Bullmoose (67cm) and it was totally great - but I was running that bike single speed and as a dedicated mountain bike - I don't love the 30° sweep for longer rides (on longer rides, I want 45-60° sweep). I tried Boscos for a minute (I think it was the 54cm that came stock on my wife's Clem), but I felt almost cartoonishly upright and didn't feel connected enough with the bike. 

For your rider, at 5'2", I'm guessing you have a newer (post 2019 geo changes) Clem and it's likely they'll want swept back bars of some sort. I think the Albatross (or Soma Oxford) are perfect for the Clem  - right rise, sweep, width, and good looking to boot. The Toscos, like I mentioned, are great, but I'd opt for the 55cm model probably in your rider's case. Re: the Boscos, I'm a bit taller than your rider, so maybe Boscos would do the trick in their case. Lastly, if they don't want a relaxed position, you've got a billion options of flat or riser bars with minimal sweep, but I won't bother with recs. 

cheers,

John (outside Fontainebleau)

[Igor]

This is a 2023 45cm Clem.

 I'm looking at putting her in a somewhat middle between racy and upright. Bosco could work for that I imagine, with the shifters and levers further up and gives her options. 

Alternatively was thinking Losco could be good, too.  Might have her try the Vegan saddle as well.

[Johnny Alien]

Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that also have height. 

The losco bars are my favorite bars and perfect for a racy upright mix. Also they are the best looking bars that Riv sells (IMO)

[Garth]

An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions are desired. 

[Richard Rose]

Hmm.., I’ve not run into this problem on my 52 Clem. I do run my FacePlater quite high - 14 of the 16cm available exposed. But, I am able to drop it down a lot which I discovered while searching for the perfect height. I do concede that might not be the case with a 45 frame. Going with a shorter quill would cause me to even more highly recommend the Bosco bar. You almost cannot get the bars too high on a Clem. Although that could just be my 69 year old self talking.:)

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On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:02 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

Note when choosing stem (as I see a Faceplater was suggested), the smaller sizes have headtubes that don't go very deep. I face this on the 50-52 sizes. Those SUPER tall stems that Rivendell sells will not go very far in and thus you are forced to have a ton of stem exposed. Couple that with a bar like the Bosco and you will be way way way up with no way to get it lower. Pick up a stem that does not have the super long lengths. Go short even if you have any uprise to it or are planning to use handlebars that also have height. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/edef026d-04ff-46b4-912b-a3be0c4643a3n%40googlegroups.com.

[Kim H.]

@Igor -

If you are interested in Honjo metal fenders on her bike, the Flat 65s' work great with my 27.5x2.25mm Schwalbe Racing Ralph's on my 2023 52cm Clem.

Furthermore,  I would like to suggest for pedals a pair of MKS Lambda pedals with pedal extensions with a bag of spike pegs. Rivendell Bicycle Works sells both of these. 

Kim Hetzel. 

Kim Hetzel. 

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[Richard Rose]

My experience on my Clem is quite the opposite of Garth’s. I do understand that my situation may be unique but it is what it is. 45 degree forward simply does not work for me. Bolt upright is the only way I can achieve a no numb hands position. Going into the wind I will assume a more forward leaning position but I cannot stay there very long. Numbness is almost immediately. I ride my Clem for hours with virtually no weight on my hands. And yes, my saddle is in the perfect vertical & horizontal position relative to the bottom bracket. I have ridden in this position, Bosco’s 2”-3” above saddle height, for 2 years & over 7,000 miles. No numb hands.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 5, 2024, at 9:24 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

An Albatoross is best for being in a forward, say 45d angle in a swept back style bar. If you use reverse Tektro brake levers, tape the bar up to and just around the top bend, then put thumbshiters there, that's about a "racey upright" as one can get using 45d body position as a base. All the other swept back bars, with regular MTB levers and grips at the ends, is just all wrong for what I'm referring to as the bars come back too far, requiring more weight on the arms and hands. When you lean forward, with proper forward seat placement in relation to the BB so you're using your legs and core to support yourself(not unlike riding a unicycle), having your arms extended forward exerts less pressure on the arms and hands. I think shallow, wide flared drop bars could also work if more hand positions are desired. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3415ddb4-1a60-43cd-b5c9-3fa4ce03b169n%40googlegroups.com.

[Igor]

For what it's worth, I tried a Nitto FW33 stem (120mm, too long for her imagine...) and it can be "slammed" in the head tube of this 45cm. I've got all of the spacers on the headset and have not/will not cut the steerer of the fork either. I need to measure the stem quill length.. https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-fw30-power-stem-dull.html

[Johnny Alien]

That is the stem (FW33) I ultimately chose as well.

I agree the Albatross is a pretty decent bar for doing the forward position because it doesn't come back as far as the others but to do it properly you have to concede that that one of the positions won't be as ideal. I use the loscos and they work very well too. If you set it really far forward to account for the sweep back then the forward position is not great to be in for long. If you set it to be comfortable in the forward position the upright is sometimes not great. The losco and albatross counter that pretty well. I never understood the multi position angle that Riv takes but then tell you you need a really long stem to counter the sweep. That puts the forward position way out there. So yeah if you want to use both get one with less sweep and rise/ Thats been what has worked for me.

[Bill Lindsay]

I don't have a Clem and have never done a ground-up Clem build, but I did fix a friend's Large Clem Complete when his stock cockpit proved too flexy.  We slammed (slammed == run the stem at the lowest possible height) a Choco-Moose, and that was a night and day improvement.  I'd absolutely start with Choco-moose again if I was doing another Clem build for myself or anybody else.  

BL in EC

[Kim H.]

@Igor -

As a suggestion you might want to read some of the Gallery of Clem builds on the Rivendell Bicycle Works website for fun.

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/customer-bikes/customer-built-clems-april-24?mc_cid=23650f4213

Kim Hetzel.

[Igor]

Now that she's had a few rides on the 45cm, we've determined: Seat (vegan wide) was maybe a bit too low, not far back enough. Bars are too close... I set her up with 120mm stem (FW33) with 52cm Bosco. Looks like Choco or Albatross would be similar but not come back as far?

[Richard Rose]

Or a longer stem? I have a 135 on my Clem with Bosco.

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On Apr 21, 2024, at 8:35 AM, Igor <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:

Now that she's had a few rides on the 45cm, we've determined: Seat (vegan wide) was maybe a bit too low, not far back enough. Bars are too close... I set her up with 120mm stem (FW33) with 52cm Bosco. Looks like Choco or Albatross would be similar but not come back as far?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/32f4ff6e-3ab3-4a07-8f58-3b84a0077206n%40googlegroups.com.

[John Johnson]

Hi Igor,

45 Clem L rider here (but the earlier model with 26" tires). I tried a Clem with 54cm Boscos and hated it. Too high, too much flex. I know that the Boscos were sort of meant to go with the Clem, but they just didn't work for me. I love the Albatross (or Soma Oxford - what my wife uses on her Clem) and think they are an improvement if the Boscos are too high or comme too far back. Honestly, I'd suggest changing to Albas and see if that works (they're the bars I keep coming back to on many of my bikes). 

I like the Toscos a lot, but they come back nearly as much as the Boscos (but worked better for me). I also recently switched up my cockpit, swapping out the Toscos for some Alba-"lite" bars made by Leks Leker in Pennsylvania. They work great (715mm wide, 25mm rise, about a 45° sweep back - pretty similar to a Jones Hbar, really). Not that I'm suggesting that for your case - but a bar with less sweep (than Boscos/Toscos/Albas) turns the Clem into something much more mountain bikey (it feels less cadillac-like and more quick handling). 

cheers,

John (outside Fontainebleau)

[Richard Rose]

So, per John’s post the “correct” handlebar for a Clem clearly depends on intended use. I also have a Leker Leks handlebar - the “Albacore”, but it’s on my Gus. I started with a 580 Bosco on the Gus because the 550 Bosco was/is so good on my Clem. But the Bosco though incredibly comfy on the Gus did not feel quite right on serious singletrack. The Albacore transformed Gus into a pure mountain bike without sacrificing comfort. The Clem remains perfect for me now sporting the 580 Bosco. Two similar but very different bikes.

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On Apr 22, 2024, at 7:42 AM, John Johnson <johnemer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Igor,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6d49a0d5-c984-40c5-abec-df9eed165432n%40googlegroups.com.

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