Sam Hillbornes Go Live Tomorrow

[Doug H.]

I like the colors coming this go-round. The Sam seems like the perfect all-rounder and I would get one had I not just bought a Roadini. Who's planning to get a Sam Hillborne?

Doug

[Andrew Joseph]

Doug,

Not one of the new colors. But excited that I could pick up this new to me 57 Sam after regretting the sale of my Homer last year. 

New parts are coming in this week and I will share the completed bike photos.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2024, at 8:09 AM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

I like the colors coming this go-round. The Sam seems like the perfect all-rounder and I would get one had I not just bought a Roadini. Who's planning to get a Sam Hillborne?

Doug

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[Doug H.]

Andrew,

That's a great looking build. The silver is classic and I like the black and silver parts together. Nice wheelset too. What parts are you changing?

Doug

[Andrew Joseph]

Thank you Doug!

Hmmm.  Saddle, seat post, stem, tires, bars, and maybe pedals will all be replaced.

Fresh tape/twine, moon units, cable cherries, and then off in the sunset we go…

Thanks to the members providing helpful feedback already.  

Best, 

Drew

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2024, at 8:47 AM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Andrew,

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/47548430-4957-4f35-9847-fda0b7a0cd50n%40googlegroups.com.

[Andrew Joseph]

I would add that I love the very quiet update to the Sam. 

I like the option of running downtube shifters on the new models.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Andrew Joseph <drew.jo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Doug!

[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 9:36:27 AM UTC-5 drew.jo...@gmail.com wrote:

I would add that I love the very quiet update to the Sam. 

I like the option of running downtube shifters on the new models.

Those are some sharp eyes - thanks for pointing that out!  I like that option, too. Though if I get one (it would be my third Sam) I'd be moving over the components from my BreadWinner G-Road, which include SRAM brifters.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Bill Lindsay]

Even with integrated shifters, the down-tube bosses give you a perfect spot for an inline barrel adjuster so you can tweak your indexing while riding.  They are great to have on any bike.  

BL in EC

[Mathias Steiner]

>> inline barrel adjuster [..]

This past weekend, I put a parts-bin XT rear derailleur and Suntour clamp-on cable stops on my Trek 710.

At first I thought I'd lost the derailleur's barrel adjuster, but when I tried to install a replacement, I found there are no threads. Which means I have no adjustment at all, which in turn means I'll run my nine-speed bar-ends in friction mode, or I'll need another derailleur. Not the end of the world, but annoying.

Having down tube shifter bosses gives a lot of flexibility, so I'm glad they've made the change.

Of all the 157 Rivendell models, the Sam is the closest to the "one bike for everything" ideal.
And it looks great, too.

cheers -mathias

[Brian Watts]

ME! I will use the parts from by Crust Romanceur (turns out low trail ain't for me); only need wheelset w dynamo and light, maybe a new saddle. My road bike is green so going to brighten things up with Periwinkle.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I have to say that I haven't looked at a bike and felt a strong impulse to buy in a long time. 

But both of those colors tripped the switch for me. Unique and yet wholly Riv. Very fine choices. There are going to be some lucky owners looking back on this day and smiling.

Found myself looking at them, thinking "....y'know, I don't really have a swept back bar setup...."

Tempting....tempting....

J

[Chris Halasz]

Ditto to what Jim said: sorely tempted, and I'm still doing final touch-up on my Clem build. 

The new Sams are as ideal an expression of a Rivendell as the Clem. And I love the new colors.

- Chris 

[Drew Henson]

those new colors look great. i have a sam from the last run (i think) in silver that i love. the homer is what originally attracted me to riv a long time ago, but i think the current version of the sam is better in the current version of the homer.

i also had a crust romeo for a bit concurrently with the sam and while i don't mind low trail, i preferred the sam and sold the crust. 

[Mathias Steiner]

I'd love to ride one of these to get an idea what they are like.

By the numbers, it's within mm of my two touring bikes, a Cannondale T series and a Gordon BLT. The main difference is the slack seat tube angle, which basically just moves the saddle backwards 18 mm vs 73 degrees, by my math. But in terms of head tube angle, fork offset, chainstay length, top tube length -- you name it, it's within 5 or so mm. BB drop is 80 for the 57 cm size, vs. 70 for my bicycles.

Out of curiosity, I'd appreciate it if someone would post the weight and size of their frame when they get it. Not that it'll tell me how it rides, but oversize, heat treated steel -- and a frame that is meant for "moderate" loads, I'd expect it to be fairly light.

My BLT is incredibly stiff, since it's built for loaded and off-road touring. The frame -- without fork -- weighs 3,700 g in the 52 cm size. Which is very similar to the 23"(58.4 cm) Cannondale in terms of effective seat and top tubes, as well as the 57 cm Sam. It's a great touring bike but I wouldn't call it lively when ridden empty.

I have a 1981 Motobécane Grand Touring that IS lively, tubing is standard size, and it weighs 2,370 g bare, with the headset cups installed and nothing else. It feels much lighter on the road. It's a pleasure to ride unloaded, and I don't think it would make a great loaded tourer. Despite the name.

I'd love to hear informed opinions on the Sam. Does anybody use one on brevets?

One of these days, I'll have to get a Rivendell frame. It'l probably be a Roadini/Roadeo, but the Sam has always intrigued me.

cheers -mathias

[Ted Durant]

On May 14, 2024, at 9:04 PM, Mathias Steiner <mathiass...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd love to hear informed opinions on the Sam. Does anybody use one on brevets? 

I have two Sams from the last batch. Previously I have had a Bleriot, which is similar to the Sam. I rode the Bleriot on several very long rides, up to 600km, and never once wished I was on something different, with one exception. A couple of times I found that the steering geometry with a loaded handlebar bag was a handful on tight downhill corners. Interestingly, I have yet to experience a similar issue on the Sams, and I’ve done some pretty challenging downhill rides on them. Of course, I did auger in on one of those … a very tight switchback with some deep sand at the apex. I’m using 48mm (smooth) tires on my Sams, vs 42mm on the Bleriot, and I find the extra tire width to help in the twisties. Having knobbies might have helped prevent my crash, but also might not have. I think the main factor was operator error … pretty sure I was still grabbing some front brake too far into the corner.  

As I think of it, I have a pretty good comparison between the Bleriot and the Sam. I took each of them to Ireland, 5 years apart, and rode the same roads each time, including some steep climbs and winding descents. They felt very similar to each other, but I think the slightly bigger tires on the Sam gave me a bit more confident handling in the curves.

Anyway, I would not hesitate to grab one of my Sams for a brevet of any length, and I have a Waterford custom-made for riding brevets. 

Why 2 Sams? Because one lives at my older daughter’s house in Portland ME, and the other lives at my younger daughter’s house in LA. How much do I like them? Enough that I’m thinking about getting a 3rd to replace my custom BreadWinner G-Road, which replaced my Bleriot because I wanted room for bigger tires and it has a bit steeper head angle and lower trail. It also has a 3rd bottle mount under the downtube, which the Sam is lacking. I have 16 1/2 hours to decide on this one. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Donzaemon]

I’m contemplating pulling the trigger on a Sam now that they’re available again. It was my first choice among Rivendell’s current lineup due to its all-rounder quality and its ability to take v-brakes, which I prefer over side-pulls and center pulls. Sadly, they weren’t available when I was in the market late last fall so rather than waiting six months for the next batch, I went with a Homer. 

My first build on the Homer was with Billie bars, which provided a lot of comfort for the leisurely rides I like to take. The ride quality, in general, was very controlled and stable. However, the handling felt somewhat awkward for me while turning and on climbs when I’d have to get off the saddle. The reach was too short and I think the bars had too much back sweep. Rather than explore another upright bar, I began to wonder if drop bars would serve me better. One thing I noticed was that the tip tube was longish so if I were to switch to drops, I’d need a shorter stem (I was using a 110mm faceplater). I’ve since switched to drop bars (with 60mm stem) and after a brief stint with Simworks Wild Honey bars, I think I’ve settled on Ritchey Venturemax Classics.

Now that the Sams are available again, I’m starting to wonder if I should sell the Homer and get one in green. I love the mustard color on my Homer, but I like green even more. When comparing geometries, I noticed that the chainstays are 2” shorter, but the top tube is 1” longer on the Sam. I felt the top tube on the Homer was long enough so maybe the longer Sam TT might be too long? 

Should I rein in my wandering eye and stick with my Homer?

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 6:09:21 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

[Curtis McKenzie]

Hi,

Sell the Homer and get a green Sam.  If you are even considering selling the Homer, then that is the way to go.  Avoid future disappointment and regret by getting the green Sam.

One person's opion.

Peace,  Curtis 

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[Doug H.]

We are almost to 3:00 PM PST. Who is watching the clock and ready to buy a Sam Hillborne?

Doug

[Ted Durant]

On May 15, 2024, at 1:42 PM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

We are almost to 3:00 PM PST. Who is watching the clock and ready to buy a Sam Hillborne?

This almost has the feel of a Bring A Trailer auction ….

[Ted Durant]

Done. 51cm Periwinkle for my 3rd Sam. If people think I'm being piggy I'll consider letting it go. 

[Michael]

57 Green here

[reeb]

almost pulled the trigger but hesitant about sizing! at 80 PBH, should i be going for the 48 or 51 for casual city rides with maybe once a month camping treks (most likely upright bars)? 

[Ted Durant]

On May 15, 2024, at 3:15 PM, reeb <rib...@gmail.com> wrote:

almost pulled the trigger but hesitant about sizing! at 80 PBH, should i be going for the 48 or 51 for casual city rides with maybe once a month camping treks (most likely upright bars)? 

My saddle height is 70cm (PBH 81ish). Here’s what it looks like on a 51:

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Andrew Joseph]

Can any Sam owner out there confirm there is tire clearance for BG Rock ‘n Road 48s?  My Sam is from the previous run…

Sent from my iPhone

On May 15, 2024, at 3:42 PM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:



<Rivendell - Bike Owners-4.jpeg>

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[Ted Durant]

> On May 16, 2024, at 7:43 AM, Andrew Joseph <drew.jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can any Sam owner out there confirm there is tire clearance for BG Rock ‘n Road 48s? My Sam is from the previous run…
>

[Andrew Joseph]

Thanks Ted!

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 16, 2024, at 8:42 AM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 

>> On May 16, 2024, at 7:43 AM, Andrew Joseph <drew.jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can any Sam owner out there confirm there is tire clearance for BG Rock ‘n Road 48s? My Sam is from the previous run…
>>
>

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> <image.png>
>
>
> Gravel King SK 48s, fwiw.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI

>
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[Donzaemon]

Love that color! It’s in my size too!

[Brian Watts]

Yay, 54 Periwinkle right at 12:01🤪

[Brian Watts]

 Happily secured a 54 Peri-Sam at 12:01 yesterday🙌🏼. I’m thinking Quill rims to have tubeless as an option. Recs on dynamo hubs? I’ve had a Son hub w edelux light but would entertain a cheaper hub option but will stick w Edelux lights…it’s so good. 

[Eric Marth]

Congrats to everyone on snagging a Sam, very capable and fun bikes!

[Ted Durant]

For those who are getting a Periwinkle Sam ... what color combos are you planning for your build?

I've ordered a purple Funky Monkey front cable hanger from Paul. Not sure it's going to be a good match. I have Phil Wood blue bottom bracket dust caps ... they'll probably match okay, not sure. The one that Riv built up for photos seems to be straight up gray-silver-black, and IMO it looks very nice. 

[Brian Watts]

I’m trying to come up with my color palette for a Peri-Sam as well. Anodized silver hub (rear)w Son front; matte silver quill rims, polished touring cantis (currently w pink and purple nuts), white VBC cranks (polished arms, black rings, may pick new crank cap color). 

 May wait to choose colors after seeing color in person when I take my parts to Riv. 
  Brian

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, May 20, 2024 at 3:15:50 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

For those who are getting a Periwinkle Sam ... what color combos are you planning for your build?

Thanks to Michael Connors for sharing the Blue Lug Periwinkle Sam photo. I was struck by how much black is on it ... tire sidewalls, saddle, handlebar wrap, basket bag ... and I'm not a fan of that look. My initial plan is to swap all the parts over from my G-Road, which will mean tan sidewalls but black saddle, black brake hoods, with handlebar wrap in a few shades of blue and a navy handlebar bag.  Sim.Works just got in a collab with Randi Jo, called the Muscovy handlebar bag, and this is an option I am considering. Yay or Nay??

[Mathias Steiner]

Nay.
It looks great, but a roll top has no place on a handlebar bag.

[ian m]

On the other hand, a roll top is a very good method for keeping the elements out of a bag, and if you are otherwise running something like a basket with a cargo net then you are undoubtedly used to not accessing your stuff while riding. In such cases there are indeed times when a roll top has a place on a front bag

On Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 10:29:16 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2024 at 10:32:15 AM UTC-5 Mathias Steiner wrote:

Nay.
It looks great, but a roll top has no place on a handlebar bag.

Well, I was asking more about aesthetics than about functionality. I have a few different handlebar bags with conventional rear-opening tops and I am pretty frequently in there mid-ride for snacks or clothing changes. I also have a couple of Dark Realm basket bags that are roll-tops and I appreciate their ability to grow in volume as needed. For a handlebar bag, though, I'm inclined to agree that a roll top isn't ideal, both because the access while riding isn't great and because a bag mounted on a Nitto F-15 or F-19A rack doesn't have a lot of weight capacity, and the roll top invites overloading.

Still interested in people's opinions on yellow in combination with periwinkle. I sold a purple Co-Motion tandem to some friends, and she, an art teacher, immediately went to yellow for cable housing and bar tape. It's quite sharp, though here in Wisconsin it's a bit too reminiscent of Minnesota Vikings colors. 

[MoVelo]

I'm getting the bronzy green version Sam and am pretty excited. Moving most of the parts from my Bridgestone T700 over which are mostly classic silver finish. I've been researching traditional Rivendell elf costumes and color schemes for some inspiration for accoutrements and could use help and suggestions. Maybe they are obvious and I'm just not seeing them. 

Cheers

JP in PH  

[jinxed]

SO SO bummed I missed out on the 54s. These really hit the sweet spot on the Riv ruler for me. 

[Mathias Steiner]

I'd like to renew my request for kitchen scale frame and fork weights from recipients of Sam Hillborne frames.
I wonder if they are as brutally stiff as my TIG'd tourer. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing, but I'm curious.

JP:
I'm full up with bikes so I resisted, but the bronzey green Sams look fantastic and really tempted me.

Ted,

Like I said the bag "looks great" but of course you're right and I change my vote:

>> a bit too reminiscent of Minnesota Vikings color

...not to mention the colors of the  University of Michigan [spits on floor]!

cheers -mathias

in East Lansing, home of Michigan State :)

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 7:22:33 AM UTC-5 Mathias Steiner wrote:

I'd like to renew my request for kitchen scale frame and fork weights from recipients of Sam Hillborne frames.
I wonder if they are as brutally stiff as my TIG'd tourer. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing, but I'm curious.

I will try to remember to weigh mine before building it up. I have two from the previous batch, and I have had lots of other frames for comparison. Bearing in mind I'm super skinny and riding them on ~48mm tires, they feel notably stiffer than my skinny-light-tube noodle Terraferma, on the stiff-ish side of my road bikes (Rivendell custom, Waterford ST-22, Heron Road), similar to the Bleriot, quite a bit more springy than the Waterford-built Riv ATB, and like a limp noodle compared to the Cheviot. The best comparison would be my BreadWinner G-Road, and it should say something that my new Sam is replacing my G-Road. A bit more springy, mostly because of the fork, I think, and a bit better fit. 

[Mathias Steiner]

Hi Ted,

>>  stiffer...on the stiff-ish side.... more springy ....and like a limp noodle

Thanks for your exhaustive and highly quantitative analysis :)

>>  like a limp noodle compared to the Cheviot.

A diamond frame really does not do much flexing, at least vertically.. it is amazing to me how we can really feel a difference when riding.
I can tell which frames are stiff but on the other hand it might be in my head.

After the recent Rivendell 'string test' I'm more willing to believe that the difference is real and bigger than I'd thought.

>>  A bit more springy, mostly because of the fork, I think

I believe you are right, but again don't really know.
The bike that I'll be buried with is a Cannondale T400 I bought new 30 years ago. Fenders with 38 mm tires work, and 28s are fine, too. It's light and stiff and bright red and a joy to ride just about anywhere.

But my best rider is a 1987 ST600 with modern wheels and 32 mm Conti GPs. No fenders, and no room for more tires, so it's mostly for asphalt and nice weather, and at 25 inches, it's borderline too tall for me. But it's a joy on the road, light weight, and the fork is much springier, as befits a sport tourer vs. an outright touring bike. Every time I get on that bike it feels fast, which I can't really understand. I've happily ridden up to 80 miles on it, which isn't going to impress anyone in this crowd :)

Both of these are stiff in the rear triangle thanks to oversize aluminum. That does not make them uncomfortable.

Switching out the T400 unicrown fork for something more rando-y would probably make superb long-distance bikes.

Has anyone here tried that? Make a bicycle more compliant by switching out the fork?

cheers -mathias

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, June 12, 2024 at 7:22:33 AM UTC-5 Mathias Steiner wrote:

I'd like to renew my request for kitchen scale frame and fork weights from recipients of Sam Hillborne frames.
I wonder if they are as brutally stiff as my TIG'd tourer. I'm not even sure that's a bad thing, but I'm curious.

51cm Sam just arrived, it is 2637 grams for the frame (including headset cups, water bottle bolts, and seat post binder bolt) and 844 grams for the fork (including crown race).

That's a chunky 792 grams heavier than my Waterford ST-22, 719 grams heavier than my Riv Road, but the fork is 38 grams _lighter_ than the fork on my ST-22, and only 23 grams heavier than the fork on my Riv Road.

I'm sure most of that extra weight is in the kickstand plate ;-)

Oh, and internet pictures don't do justice to the Periwinkle color. It's magnificent.

[Ted Durant]

On Jun 21, 2024, at 5:16 PM, Michael Connors <michael.ge...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mine also had a bottom bracket installed

Good point - I should have clarified that I removed the bottom bracket that came with it, so the weight I gave is without the BB.

[Mathias Steiner]

Thanks, Ted,
That is helpful.

What I'm learning is that not only does the Sam have the same effective geometry as my Gordon BLT, it also has the same frame weight. Your fork is a little lighter; mine was  970 g with the race installed; the frame (size 52, more like a 57 Sam) weighed just under 2700 without the bottom bracket.

Other than then not-so-pretty unicrown fork, there's really no reason to get a Sam over the Gordon for me, and I'll be playing with the setup of the BLT to make it Sam-like. If I get curious, maybe I'll get  a fork, or in a year or two I'll have a different idea what Riv model I should own. One of these days I should get one, on general principle.

I really appreciate that you remembered my request.

cheers -mathias

[Ted Durant]

While I'm measuring things ... I stuck a pair of 700c wheels on it and I was temporarily excited when I found the rear rim was 57mm from the brake mounting hole. Perfect for a set of medium-reach caliper brakes! Alas, at the front it's barely 40mm at the front of the fork crown, so much less than ideal. In case you're thinking you want to run 700c on your 650B-sized-Sam.

[John Bokman]

Ted, I always like the way you have your Sams appointed. I am eager to see your setup when you feel willing and able to grace us with some photos of the Periwinkle.

John

Portland, OR

[Brent Knepper]

my p-winkle sam showed up friday, hoping to have it built by next weekend ◡̈ ◡̈ ◡̈  teaser pic from stravá, color isn't accurate- bluer in daylight but wonderfully a touch more purple than the riv photos

[john Bokman]

Gorgeous Brent! Thanks for sharing. (I reluctantly opted out of this round since I already have a 2017 Sam, but I was mighty tempted!)

On Jun 23, 2024, at 12:52 PM, Brent Knepper <in...@brentknepper.com> wrote:

my p-winkle sam showed up friday, hoping to have it built by next weekend ◡̈ ◡̈ ◡̈  teaser pic from stravá, color isn't accurate- bluer in daylight but wonderfully a touch more purple than the riv photos

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[Ted Durant]

I'd like to hear from others on what BB and crank you are using on your new Sam. The BB that comes with it is a Shimano 110mm. I installed a Phil 113mm and found that my White Industries crank (VBC, 44/32) is a no-go. The inner ring bolts hit the chain stay well before the crank is tightened. It's going to need a lot more chainline to work.

[Brian Watts]

Riv built mine a VBC cranks as well and they used 60x122.5, my white industr bracket wasn’t enough either. 

[Ted Durant]

Very helpful - thanks!

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI

On Jul 10, 2024, at 6:46 PM, Brian Watts <watta...@gmail.com> wrote:

Riv built mine a VBC cranks as well and they used 60x122.5, my white industr bracket wasn’t enough either. 

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[Mathias Steiner]

To follow up on this thread:

A 2009 Hillborne came my way. 
I'd been on the lookout for a suitable Rivendell for years, but they're scarce in middle America. On the other hand, I'm still young, so I wasn't in an hurry.

Ted wrote, eons ago:

>>  51cm Sam just arrived, it is 2637 grams for the frame (including headset cups, water bottle bolts, and seat post binder bolt) and 844 grams for the fork (including crown race).

The frame & fork came sans headset, and the first thing I did was to weigh the pieces.
This is a 56 cm frame, before the double top tube craziness.

With everything off, including the bottom bracket and the bottle cage screws (14 g for four, who knew? Titanium is clearly required!) and only the binder bolt and BB cable guide still in the frame, the weight was 2398 g per my kitchen scale.

That's 200 g less than Ted found for his recently purchased 51 cm. History may be at work here; the original Sams were basically made-in-Taiwan Homers before that plan became untenable. Riv may have beefed up the frame, as Sam became a rough-road Homer.

I have a "23 inch" -- 58 cm -- Motobécane Grand Touring from 1981 with Vitus 172 that weighs 2370 g, and it is a lovely sport tourer, not made for heavy loads. Given the Sam's modern oversized and heat treated tubing, I exepect the frame to be quite stiff.

The fork weighs 954 g, 110 g more than Ted's. Given the difference in frame size, that's probably from the longer steerer tube. I have high hopes for some comfort from this fork on mid-Michigan's frost-heaved pavement this spring.

cheers -mathias
East Lansing, MI

Gratuitous picture from the morning commute: