Dim lighting on SON hub/Edelux II headlight

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I never had dyno until 2020, and now I have it on my 2 bikes. 

1. 52 cm Clem L with 650b wheels: Shutter Precision hub with Edelux II headlight and fender mounted SON taillight 

2. 55 cm Platypus with 700c wheels: Schmidt SON hub with Edelux II headlight and fender mounted SON taillight.

So: same lights but different generators.

SON has the votes for best dyno ever, so I went with that for my Platy, but so far, it's not been as good as the SP. I know that cannot be, so something must be wrong with my setup of the SON, or possibly the hub/generator itself. I think it has been this way from the start; I always thought the differences were due to the mounting location of the light.

We had both bikes out on a family ride and the Clem's light was blindingly bright - a veritable floodlight. The Platy's light appeared dim in comparison, even though I was riding the Platy at a faster speed. The Platy's rear light often flickers unless I am riding downhill, and the Clem's does not. I've checked the connections and as best as I can tell, there's nothing amiss. The Clem's headlight is front rack-mounted, and the Platy uses a fork-crown mount. I did a night ride with the Platy last night and was really underwhelmed by the beam. It is not the beam is blocked; it appears the light is just generally dimmed.  I ride a dark path through the desert where there is wilderness on one side and homes distantly located on the other, no streetlights. I need good illumination; the Clem gives ample lighting but I feel like I'm straining to see on my Platy..

Secondly, I hear something in the drivetrain or wheel set of the Platy. Almost like the sound of electrical current. It is only on the Platy, never the Clem. I have heard that the SON is supposed to be silent, but there is definitely noise coming from the bike, but I don't know if it's the hub.

I'm going to take the bike to the shop that built it and see if they can figure out the noise and the dim light. If you have any words of wisdom or direction I could point them in, please let me know here. 

Things I have considered:

1. Does the wheel size affect the difference in brightness? 

2. Does the mounting location affect the appearance of the beam? (I have tilted the Platy light this way and that so the beam doesn't fall on the front wheel, but no real difference was noted.)

3. Maybe there is some tension on the wires somehow?

********************************************************************

Don't read past here if you don't want to be subjected to my angst. It is cathartic to talk to bike people about bike woes; no one else understands.

I dread taking the bike in and presenting them with some obscure issues (What is this noise? Don't you hear it? Well, it's not doing it right NOW, but... My light is not bright enough! Can't you make it brighter?!) Most shops in Vegas don't know a thing about dyno; it took my LBS considerable time to suss out how to do it. So, I fear that the bike will come back to me in the same state and I will be slowly driven crazy by the sounds and the inferior lighting. Also, the Platy is special and I am overly attached to it. When things aren't right with it I am all sackcloth and ashes, wailing and gnashing of teeth over here.

*******************************************************************

Thanks for your insight!

Leah

[Leah Peterson]

Videos, sent in several posts due to size

[Jon Dukeman]

Leah

Contact Peterwhitecycles.com. He is everything lighting. Very knowledgeable and warranty repairs.

Jon

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[Leah Peterson]

[Leah Peterson]

[Ben Miller]

Major Bummer Leah! The SON powered Edelux light system definitely does seem to not be getting enough electricity! 

Electrical issues can be fiendishly difficult to suss out, so I'd recommend taking it step by step.

Have you tried disconnecting the rear light on the Platypus? If you do disconnect the RL and the light gets brighter you know its an issue with the RL wiring (The RL draws so little power its shouldn't noticeable effect the Edelux) Disconnect the RL directly from attachment at the Edelux for best troubleshooting.

If you do that test and still the Edelux seems dim, than it must be the wiring between the Edelux and the SON hub. But you have 2 dynamos (which is a great thing)! However, one is a 700/SON and the other is 650/SP. This means the next next is harder. You can't install the SP onto the Platypus, I don't think (Due to the SPO connector). But I think you should be able to test the SON on the Clem. In the bike stand, can you install the 700/SON on the Clem? Maybe you need to slightly deflate the tyre? The SP connector will be finicky with the SON hub; you mazy need to push and hold it up against the thinner SON connection tabs (but it does work, I put an SP connector on my Roadeo's SON and have rode it for miles). If you can get all that to work, spin the wheel hard in the bike stand. Is it was bright as it was with the SP (make sure you spin the SP in the Clem in the stand too for reference!) If it is not as bright, you've now diagnosed a SON hub issue! If it is as bright, your issue is in the wiring between the SON hub and the Edelux. 

In summary:

Test RL connection: rule out RL (dim) or RL wiring is issue (bright). 

Test SON on Clem: rule out and its a Edelux wiring issue (bright), or it's an issue with the SON hub (dim).

If wiring issue, you or someone else should rewiring that complete section. If it's a SON hub issue, well I'd contact the vendor you got the hub or wheel build from!

Hopefully this is something fairly easy for you to try out. Feel free to ask more questions if some part doesn't make sense.

Best of luck!

Ben

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 8:22:32 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Leah,

The advice you've gotten sounds wise, I think talking to Peter White first is a good idea. If you can show him your videos I'd be curious to hear what he thinks about this: Your Platy headlight is mounted behind the top of the fender and is throwing a big shadow directly in front, whereas the Clem light is unobstructed and much brighter. I wonder how much that shadow is affecting the situation. 

Joe Bernard

[Peter White]

The headlight on the Platypus appears to be aimed very high. As the rider makes his final right turn I can see the top of the beam shining on the house across the street. It's critical when comparing two setups to be sure to aim the lights the same way. On my own bikes I aim the top of the beam about 140 feet ahead. But what does that mean Peter? Well, I'll tell you.

The Edelux II headlight has a beam pattern similar to an automobile's low beam. If you were to project the beam against a vertical wall, the top of the beam would be brightest, and there would be a sharp horizontal cutoff at the top of the beam. As you look down from the top of the beam it would become progressively dimmer. This is because the top of the beam is supposed to be projected further down the road than the bottom of the beam. The idea is that this will result in the road ahead being evenly illuminated by the headlight, from the point of view of the cyclist. The further away you aim the top of the beam, in other words, the higher you aim the headlight, the dimmer the road surface will be.

The first bike appears to have the beam aimed fairly well. The second bike is not aimed well at all. You could put the two bikes side by side and compare the front of the headlights by looking at them from the side. Start with both headlights having the front of the headlights vertical. In other words the glass lens at the front should be vertical. That should put the top of the beam about 50 feet in front of the bike on a level road. The beams of both bikes should then be identical in shape and brightness. Depending on the speeds you ride, you may well want the headlights aimed a bit higher. As I wrote, on my own bikes the top of the beam is about 140 feet away. Where I ride it's extremely hilly, there's virtually no traffic at night, but there are lots of critters lurking about, wait for me to come along and run them over. So on a fast descent I need more time to react to something I'm approaching.

I don't need to worry about glass on the road, so I don't need the road 20 feet ahead to be as brightly lit as possible. I'm not competing with other light sources. If the moon isn't up there are no other light sources. So the relatively high projection of the beam, and its relative dimness, isn't a problem. Were I back riding in downtown Boston as I was 50 years ago, I wouldn't care what was 140 feet ahead, so I would aim the headlight lower, thereby making the road surface, and all the glass and shrapnel easier to see.

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 11:12 AM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

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On Apr 24, 2021, at 8:01 AM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

I never had dyno until 2020, and now I have it on my 2 bikes. 

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Peter White

[Peter White]

On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 2:08 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah,

The advice you've gotten sounds wise, I think talking to Peter White first is a good idea. If you can show him your videos I'd be curious to hear what he thinks about this: Your Platy headlight is mounted behind the top of the fender and is throwing a big shadow directly in front, whereas the Clem light is unobstructed and much brighter. I wonder how much that shadow is affecting the situation. 

Joe Bernard

That's a good point. You may well benefit from a taller mount. But first aim the beam as I described. If the fender is blocking the beam, the 65mm extension mount from Busch & Müller would help. 

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Peter White

[Leah Peterson]

Hi All,

I just pulled into the parking lot of the LBS and read your messages. Since I’m already here, I’ll have them take a look at the connections and see if they can find where the noises (remember I said it sounds like current?) originate. Also, there is the matter of the flickering rear light.

I did email Analog a few days ago, but bless them, they are busy with a big shipment of frames and I haven’t heard back. I’ll hear from them, I’m sure. 

But meanwhile, the light adjustment. When I get both bikes back I’m going to try what you suggested, Peter, however, I believe I had that light tilted because the fender blocked the beam. So, I think the light mount extension you suggest would be of great help. I’d like to buy that if you sell it. 

Thanks so much for all the advice!

Leah

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On Apr 24, 2021, at 11:32 AM, Peter White <peter...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Leah Peterson]

Update: the mechanic spun the front wheel and expected the hub to be silent - it’s not. He is wondering if it needs lube in there. Also, he fiddled with the connection, spun the wheel, and the light wouldn’t illuminate. So, something seems off... 

But I do think I need that mount Peter suggested...

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 24, 2021, at 12:05 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

[Ben Miller]

I wouldn't say that SON dynamo hubs are supposed to be silent, at least not in the same way a normal front hub is silent. It's not to way that the noise might not be the issue, but some noise is to be expected.

As for grease, from the SON website: 

Do bearings on a SON hub dynamo need any maintenance?

SON Nabendynamo bearings are sealed on both sides; they are lifetime-lubricated grooved ball bearings. Normally they run maintenance-free for many 10 thousands of kilometers and need neither lubrication nor adjustment. Should a fault nevertheless occur the bearings will be replaced by the manufacturer.

[Leah Peterson]

Ben,

This is why I cry in the parking lot after I drop my bike off. Because I know it’s completely plausible that my bike will come back in worse shape than I left it because shops in this town don’t know about bikes like mine - bikes with dyno and fenders. I’ve had a lot of parts installed wrong during my time in Vegas. But dyno is new to me, too, so I don’t know what a normal Schmidt SON sounds like. My Shutter Precision is quiet and gives me a bright light. That’s what I have to go on.

I’ll just have to hope whoever works on my Platy will realize those are sealed bearings. It won’t be the mechanic who checked me in today, so at least there’s that...

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 24, 2021, at 12:52 PM, Ben Miller <ben.l....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

My experience is minimal to the point of being basically useless to you BUT... I did have a SON hub for a while and it wasn't entirely quiet. Assuming it's not egregiously loud I might guess that different brands of dynohub just sound different. But this doesn't explain the connection not working and the taillight flickering and...I'm not helping here! 

[Ben Miller]

Oh no Leah! I hope I'm not making you more anxious 😬

A SON hub still be mostly quiet. I tried taking video of my two in the stand, but honestly its too soft of a sound to properly pick out (my water heater, freezer, wind, dog, and passing traffic all made it too difficult to properly document)! 

But a SON does make a more noticeable noise than an SP. (I have several of both types). Again, I wouldn't say noise isn't the issue, but I wouldn't have you're LBS try and service a SON hub, that is for sure. 

Maybe you could try to video the hub sound in the stand??

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[Joe Bernard]

Sorry kids, I posted the same time as Ben with similar information but his had more evidence in hand. Listen to Ben! 

[Ian A]

Along with aligning the beam, also make sure there are no shorts in the system. The noise you hear from the hub you hear while riding may be from vibration, which often occurs if the skewer isn't tight enough.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Leah Peterson]

Oh, it’s not your fault, Ben. I am overly attached to this bike and I’ve made myself a wreck over it. 

As far as the noise, there is more than one. But there is one noise that sounds kind of like electrical current, and it never came at a predicable time - like with pedaling. It would cause a little vibratory feeling and was loud enough that I could pick it up using my iPhone to video. Last night it was nearly constant and seemed to coincide with the turning of the pedals. I caught it on video, which I will attach here. There are actually two sounds being made, I think one is drivetrain chatter that I’m hoping the shop sets straight for me this week. You have to tune your ear to it but if you listen you’ll hear two atypical sounds - sort out the wind noise and listen for a rhythmic sound and a constant chatter. They’re there.

The sound when the wheel is spun with the bike stationary is slight, but annoying. I don’t have that on video and the bike is now in custody of the shop. But if Shutter Precision managed to make it quiet, why can’t Schmidt do the same? And the flickering. That occurs at speeds that I think are fast enough to generate a solid light. At the same speed a SP will hold a steady beam. I know SON is the reigning champion for dyno, but why? 

Here are the videos. The first is a better specimen, I think:

[Ben Miller]

I believe you about the sound, but its such a hard thing to capture over the video. I think I hear the drivetrain noise, but hard to tell the other "electrical" one. I think video phones are not ideal for capturing such things; I tried once again to record the SON noise without any real success :/

SP and SON's are both great hubs. I think SON hubs get better rating because people think they look nicer, they have slightly better drag profiles vs SP, and they known to last a long time (A friend of mine SP recently failed, though I think it was some time after 20,000 km; SON's supposedly last much longer) Oh, and I think you can build a slightly stronger wheel with a SON vs SP (though my SP wheels seem plenty strong, so I think this is marginal). If all that adds up to worth the extra $$$ vs an SP, well that's up to the buyer... One thing that I think is better about the SP over the SON is the standard connector (SON doesn't even come with one, and the Edelux female connectors work for sure, but are annoying compared to the SP connector. I guess you can get a SON coaxial connector, but that's another $30) Overall, I like both and decide which to use depending on my use case for the bike.

Personally, I'd be pretty surprised if it was the hub. I definitely agree the Edelux looks too dim (I don't think it's merely pointed too high). But I'd put money on the wiring. Again, I think the best way to test that is to try and isolate the various parts of the system (though I realize you don't have the bike at the moment). Hopefully this is something your LBS is doing for you?

[Joe Bernard]

The rhythmic noise sounds like the chain barely grazing the front derailer, like what would happen if the chainring is ever so slightly out of round. In this scenario you could think you have the cage centered over the chain, then not notice the chain wobbling over to graze the cage while pedaling. This issue can be exacerbated by using a 9-speed (wider) chain with a 10-speed (narrower) derailer, which I suspect is the case on your bike. 

The other sound? No idea! 🤷

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 3:14:36 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Leah Peterson]

Joe, I bet you’re right about that! It is constant and always in the Hard-Hard gear, which is what I nearly always ride. I shall save these words and tell them to the shop when I get my bike back, do a test ride in the lot and invariably it makes the SAME noise. 

Ben, it seems that way to me, too. The wiring is probably the weakest link. I wish I knew some real-life Riv folks who would let me bike right on over and put my bike in their stand for diagnosis! Someday, I hope...

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 24, 2021, at 4:00 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

The rhythmic noise sounds like the chain barely grazing the front derailer, like what would happen if the chainring is ever so slightly out of round. In this scenario you could think you have the cage centered over the chain, then not notice the chain wobbling over to graze the cage while pedaling. This issue can be exacerbated by using a 9-speed (wider) chain with a 10-speed (narrower) derailer, which I suspect is the case on your bike. 

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[Joe Bernard]

Front derailers are the bane of my existence. I love the look of the nice Campagnolo on my custom, but I'm super-OCD-fastidious about chain rub and constantly adjusting the shifter to avoid it. My Susie doesn't HAVE a front derailer, all I have to do is shift the back. No chain grinding, no OCD, I'm free! 🕺🕺🕺

[Joe Bernard]

Only in the hardest gear? (💡goes off) AHA! Bring these words to the shop folks: High Limit screw needs to be turned out a smidge so the front derailer will move a little further past the big chainring. 

I think you're getting a slight grind on the cage in the highest gear because the chain is angled over to the small rear cog and you can't move the derailer enough to clear it. Is what I think with my smartbrain! 

[Garth]

The sound from the video is like a rhythmic ratcheting/creaking sound as Leah pedals, it's not a FD rubbing sound as that has a smooth surface and is higher pitched smooth metallic sound. I'm listening to it loud and with headphones, eyes closed.

The obvious question is does the sound remain when not pedaling ? What does what when you do what ? What doesn't ?

If I was a mechanic worth a penny I'd either ride with you to hear it, or ride the bike myself, or have you ride around inside the store and run along side. Just dropping it off and expecting them to experience what you're experiencing in real time as you ride is rarely fruitful, as no two people hear the same thing the same way, so it can become sort of a word game of "it sounds like ..... ".

Anyways .... "stuff going wrong" is like a cosmic slight-of-mind  joke we play on ourselves . What for , one may wonder ?

Because we can. I ask for the sake of the ask, wonder for the sake of the wonder ...... it's Life for Life's sake ..... and there isn't anything else.

[Joe Bernard]

I contend that only doing it in the big/small rings means the fd isn't traveling far enough to clear the chain on that combo. On a 2-speed setup like this it's common for the rider to use the friction shifter like index: all the one way for the small ring, all the way the other for big. I think she's shifting all the way and the derailer is stopping a smidge short. Smartbrain 💡

[Leah Peterson]

This is exactly what I do. However, I know about trimming derailleurs and so even when I nudge the front derailleur I cannot stop the chatter. So, what can that mean? But it does go away in other gears. I’m stuck with chatter in the HARD-HARD. (Leahspeak for whatever those gears are called. I have no idea which one is “high” and which one is “low.” I know hard and easy.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 24, 2021, at 5:39 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I contend that only doing it in the big/small rings means the fd isn't traveling far enough to clear the chain on that combo. On a 2-speed setup like this it's common for the rider to use the friction shifter like index: all the one way for the small ring, all the way the other for big. I think she's shifting all the way and the derailer is stopping a smidge short. Smartbrain 💡

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[Joe Bernard]

I'll use right/left, which is actually how I think about it when I'm not trying to sound like a smart guy who knows bike words. When you push the front shifter all the way to the hardest gear up front, it's pushing the derailer to the right as you're looking down at it. In that hard/hard gear front/back the chain is furthest over to the right, too. I think your front derailer isn't moving any further right to clear the chain, it's hitting a limit. That limit can be adjusted out so the derailer moves right a smidge more. Does that make sense? 

[Ben Miller]

Leah, that'd be so cool if you could just bike over and we could put it up in the stand for troubleshooting! I'd be all for that!

[Bill Schairer]

Along the lines of adjusting beam, i keep tweaking mine until I get what I want then, in a dark garage, I walk the bike towards a wall to see where the cutoff line is that Peter talks about.  For my conditions, I think I like that line to be maybe 3-4 feet up the wall.  But, try that with the two bikes and see how they compare that way and adjust accordingly.  That may also be a more accurate way of judging light intensity?

 I  don’t have SON or SP hub but a shimano.  I’ve used the same wheel on two different bikes and feel there is some difference in the feel of the same hub between the two bikes. I am much more likely to feel a bit of vibration on the Atlantis at certain speeds than I am with the same wheel  on my Trek.  Maybe sound too.  Why?  I don’t know, just saying - different fork, stem, bars etc.

As for noise, there is so much wind noise etc in the one video I listened to that I couldn’t pick out anything in particular.  That said, I can’t remember what kind of fenders you have on the two bikes but I once mounted some metal Honjo’s on my Trek and I swear that rear fender was like a whisper disk transmitting and seemingly magnifying every sound of the drive train to my ears.  I removed those, sold them and installed plastic fenders.  Maybe not as pretty but much quieter! Just another thing to maybe consider.

At the end of the day, it may just be that everything about the C makes it a better in the dark ride than the P?  Sometimes that happens.

Bill S

San Diego

[Collin A]

I'm late to the party, but this is eerily similar to what happened on my Partner's AHH when I switched lights to the edelux (after it didn't work as well as I'd hoped for trails on my bike)!

Edelux is finicky with tailights in that you need to get the polarity right (- on the TL to the flat grounding spade -flat piece with a hole in it- on the HL, and then + to +). Ben's test of removing the connections to the TL from the HL should help with that, but its key to remove the connections from the HL! If that fixes the issue, then you'll need to wire the TL the correct way to fix itThis was on the SP hub. Also, I'm sure you checked this, but make sure the lights are on the 'always on' setting, could be the light sensor is dirty or something.

The noise and extra resistance you mention also occurred on my bike with the SON hub, and usually was triggered from a little bit of moisture from rain/wet roads seeping into the connection from hub to HL wire. For whatever reason, when I installed the fittings I goofed and found there was a loose wire and that ended up shorting the circuit from time-to-time and was eventually fixed by pulling it apart and reinstalling the connectors with a bit more patience. Then sealing it with epoxy before wrapping the whole thing in heat shrink. All this to say, it was a poor connection between the light and hub that contributed to that resistance (when the light was on and connected). Bill's comment about fitting the light to the Shimano hub should* also work to separate the light/dynamo issues.

The key with this kind of troubleshooting (as others have mentioned) is to test each part by itself as much as you can and then isolate where the issues are coming from. And taking notes!

Good luck, I know this can be incredibly frustrating!

Collin in Pedal Powered Sacramento.

[Joe Bernard]

"I don’t have SON or SP hub but a shimano. I’ve used the same wheel on two different bikes and feel there is some difference in the feel of the same hub between the two bikes. I am much more likely to feel a bit of vibration on the Atlantis at certain speeds than I am with the same wheel on my Trek. Maybe sound too. Why? I don’t know, just saying - different fork, stem, bars etc."

That's an interesting data point, Bill. Those Clems (Leah's other and quieter bike) are thick-walled cruisers that seem to pick up any noise/vibration from the road and spit it back out with the rider utterly unaware of all that drama. I'll bet the lighter/thinner-walled tubes of the Platypus are more prone to broadcasting noise and vibration coming from the pavement and moving parts on the frame. 

Joe Bernard

[brian tester]

Is the hub a SON Delux or a SON28? I ask because the Delux was technically developed for 20" wheel bikes, with higher rotation rates. While it works fine built into a larger diameter wheel (and will introduce less pedalling resitance and will weigh slightly less than the SON28,) it will produce less wattage as the the wheel diameter grows. So a 700c wheel with a fattish tire will make fewer rotations per foot than an ideal 20" wheel, therefore producing less watts. Add a tail light to the equation and the hub will be hard-pressed to bring the headlight to full brightness.

The SON28, on the other hand, is recommended for larger diameter wheels and situations involving additional lighting, i.e. a tail light, and device charging via USB. Probably not exactly what you want to hear, if you do have the SON Delux, but it could go a long way toward explaining your frustrating lack of light.

[Leah Peterson]

SON 28!

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On Apr 25, 2021, at 12:20 PM, brian tester <brian....@gmail.com> wrote:



Is the hub a SON Delux or a SON28? I ask because the Delux was technically developed for 20" wheel bikes, with higher rotation rates. While it works fine built into a larger diameter wheel (and will introduce less pedalling resitance and will weigh slightly less than the SON28,) it will produce less wattage as the the wheel diameter grows. So a 700c wheel with a fattish tire will make fewer rotations per foot than an ideal 20" wheel, therefore producing less watts. Add a tail light to the equation and the hub will be hard-pressed to bring the headlight to full brightness.

The SON28, on the other hand, is recommended for larger diameter wheels and situations involving additional lighting, i.e. a tail light, and device charging via USB. Probably not exactly what you want to hear, if you do have the SON Delux, but it could go a long way toward explaining your frustrating lack of light.

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[Leah Peterson]

Interesting catch by Analog, after reviewing the photo: the wheel is backwards. The connector for the hub should be on the right side. The drive side. I can’t believe none of us noticed! I’ll call the shop and tell them to flip it. That’s a start.

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On Apr 25, 2021, at 12:34 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

SON 28!

[Collin A]

That shouldn't matter for the Son Dynamos. Per their FAQ page:

https://nabendynamo.de/en/service/faqs/

But hey, it might solve it?

Collin in Sacramento

[Leah Peterson]

Don’t take this from me, Collin! 🤣

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On Apr 27, 2021, at 2:22 PM, Collin A <collinm...@gmail.com> wrote:

That shouldn't matter for the Son Dynamos. Per their FAQ page:

https://nabendynamo.de/en/service/faqs/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d0e2762e-7403-4aba-9ad6-2ce8e5b5889fn%40googlegroups.com.

<Capture.PNG>

[Collin A]

Sorry, I only say that because I have it setup on the left side on my Joe (or the right side on my Clem) and, while I have had issues noted above, It wasn't because of the hub orientation.

Sorry,

Collin, Bursting bubbles, in Sacramento

[Eric Norris]

I don’t care what they say. Schmidt connectors ALWAYS go on the righthand side! That rule is written in stone!

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

On Apr 27, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Collin A <collinm...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, I only say that because I have it setup on the left side on my Joe (or the right side on my Clem) and, while I have had issues noted above, It wasn't because of the hub orientation.

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<PXL_20201231_234525588.jpg>

[Ben Miller]

Hm, I seem to recall the movies being really dark, too dark to see which side its connected on.

But didn't Analog wire it up? With the connector wire being on oneside vs the other (drive vs nondrive?)

Ben

[Dorothy C]

Ben, Analog built the wheels and did the anodizing, Leah got the frame from Riv and had the rest of the build done locally, from what I recall

[Leah Peterson]

#RivSister Dorothy has it right. Poor Analog has to do what they can remotely with no frame on the premises. They nail it every time, too. The shop here in Vegas (I don’t think the young sweetheart mechanic had ever done dyno before) set it up with the wiring on the non-drive side. Honestly, if it were that simple of a fix, I’d be delighted. I called that mechanic and told him about it today; he had his reasons for setting it up on the “wrong” side - something about looking better in pictures. See? A sweetheart. 

I suppose I never did send a photo of the bike but I’ve sent so many that I have lost track! Here are a couple of recent shots. 😂

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On Apr 27, 2021, at 5:52 PM, Dorothy C <doroth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ben, Analog built the wheels and did the anodizing, Leah got the frame from Riv and had the rest of the build done locally, from what I recall

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[Joe Bernard]

Holy cow that's a a lot of wire. Lots of wraps around the fork, then a big bundle behind the bottom bracket. Hey electricity people, would all that length cause current issues going to the lights?*

*I realize this is probably a really dumb question. I'm good for that! 

[Leah Peterson]

Joe is right - tons of wire. They were afraid to cut it/splice it/solder it or whatever the correct term is. There is one guy who will do it (begrudgingly) and I’d have to make an appt with him. So, it’s bunched up and zip-tied near the kickstand bolt. No idea if that affects performance.

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On Apr 27, 2021, at 6:48 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ben Miller]

Oh wow, Leah!

In theory that *shouldn't* matter, I don't think. It's coaxial wire, so there should be minimal electrical impedance (if that were a double strand though, definitely no bueno). The wraps around the forks also shouldn't be issue (for coaxial or double). The additional resistance from the excess copper I'm also guessing is minimal. But again, you should try disconnecting the rear light in order to troubleshoot!

But Oh Man, either way, please get someone to cut that wire to somewhat of a proper length! It's just asking for trouble and detracts from the otherwise great looks! You can always leave it a bit long: this gives you leeway for trimming more later, moving to a different bike (unlikely in your case i feel :), or changing things around. There is a neat way to deal with excess wire by wrapping it around a thin rod (like a screw driver or pencil); it will retain the coil shape (especially if you apply a little bit of heat while doing it). The coil will act like a little slinky, but can be straight out later if desired.

It's funny, other than the bird's nest, the wiring doesn't actually look that bad. There is a nice looking grommet going into the fender, everything appears coaxial, and you even have the SON coaxial connector! I'd be interested in seeing a close up of the wiring around the fork and in the fender though!

[Peter White]

There have been three versions of the SON hub for most bicycles. The first was for rim brakes only, designed in the early 1990s. The spoke flanges were polished aluminum, and they were connected by a black painted steel center section, similar to the construction of the early Phil Wood hubs. That version was made up until about 2003 or so. The next (2nd) version was smaller and lighter and was all aluminum. It was available polished and black anodized. It was also available for ISO disc. This version could have the dynamo core and bearings removed by unscrewing the core with a special tool. Because it can unscrew, the connectors must only be positioned on the right side, lest vibration cause the core to unscrew. This is the only version that must only have the connectors on the right side. The third version, the current version, can have the connectors on either side, unless it's a disc version, in which case the hub's orientation is dictated by the location of the disc brake caliper.

Leah's wheel can be mounted in either orientation.

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Peter White

[Leah Peterson]

Friends,

One last thing. The shop called. They flipped the wheel and say the light is now responding really well but the wheel is still “notchy.” The mechanic says he has worked on dyno before, never Schmidt SON, but other dyno and while he remembers them being a bit stiff when spinning the wheel, this one is “red flag notchy.” I have this old video of me spinning the wheel when months ago, I was trying to find out if this was normal or not. I think this is what he means. See below.

Anyway, can anyone with SON confirm if their front wheel acts like mine in the video below? We are conferring with Analog but will have to wait to hear back. Meanwhile, I’m anxious to get my bike back. I’ve been riding my Clem and it’s just not the same.

[Jon Dukeman]

Make sure that your quick release is tight. And the axle is firmly in the drop outs. On both sides.

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 5:20 AM, Peter White <peter...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Joe Bernard]

This is pretty vague "don't have them anymore" memory so grab that grain of salt and hope for more current real-world responses:

My Dahon had some kinda generic-from-China dyno and it was sorta notchty. My Cheviot had a Shimano dyno which was similar. My Atlantis (built and bought from Analog) had a Schmidt SON and it was notchier than those two. 

In my opinion if it rolls ok and the light is bright and the notchy noise is there but not like WOW that's loud, I think you're good to go. Spinning it by hand won't tell you much, they all feel notchy and don't spin long compared to regular hubs, it's the 'on the ground rolling' that matters. But let's hear what Peter White thinks! 

Joe "sounds like he knows what he's talking about but the jury is out on that" Bernard

[Patrick Moore]

In the few cases I've felt "notchiness" it has been because the wiring to the light/s was wrong. Forget exactly how, but fixing the wiring solved the problem.

IIRC, wrong wiring also caused a "stuttering" sound in one case.

FWIW.

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 5:20 AM, Peter White <peter...@gmail.com> wrote:



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-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Wrong wiring: I mixed up ground and power wires.

[Joe Bernard]

Naturally I didn't actually answer the question pertaining to the video. That sounds normal based on my memory of doing the same hand-spin on my SON hub. It was kind of alarming, but seemed to work fine out on the road. 

[Eric Norris]

Leah:

Here’s my SON 28 hub in action. It’s totally silent. 

[Joe Bernard]

Oh for Pete's sake! Yep, that's definitely quiet..quieter than the one I had by a lot. 

[Ben Miller]

Leah,

I'm happy to hear the wheel flip helped! Woohoo ! (Even if it is a mystery as to why??) I hope you now get your bike back and can enjoy those nighttime trails! 

As for the sound: it mostly sounds normal too me, but there is a secondary second in there that sounds like leaves rustling to me. Like Rowing to Nowhere said, make sure that QR is tight in the axle, though persumably the mechanics will have it in there nice and snug! :)

[Joe Bernard]

Next question for this saga, for folks who know and ride these things: Do SON hubs break in and get quieter as the miles pile up? Like they're extra stiff and notchy at first, but last longer than other dynos? 

Joe Bernard

[Leah Peterson]

Eric: Yours is very quiet! But do I detect the tiniest sound? It sounds like my hub only mine was much louder. How long have this SON been in your employ?

Joe: Good points, all. My SON only really has a few months of wear. The video I sent above was from December when I first thought the hub sounded and felt odd. 

I picked up my Platy today and it does seem that the light is more responsive and the wheel is quieter when spun. The drive train noise is gone. I’m taking the bike out with my two sons (my SON with my sons! 🤣) and doing a night ride after dinner. I’ll have my teenager on my Clem so I’ll be able to compare the dyno lights between my two bikes. The mechanic said he also switched the tire. Or something. Something about topping off the sealant because of this switching, and also something about matching up the tread. I don’t know. I rode the bike in the parking lot and the lights worked and it wasn’t making off-putting noises, so I skipped my way out to my vehicle. 

We are heading out soon…I’ll report back. Thanks, everyone!

L

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 4:51 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Next question for this saga, for folks who know and ride these things: Do SON hubs break in and get quieter as the miles pile up? Like they're extra stiff and notchy at first, but last longer than other dynos? 

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[Collin A]

Leah,

I (and Ben) would really recommend trying the dynamo system 1. without any lights to see how the hib rolls and 2. without the rear light to isolate any wiring issues.

I've had my SON hub for more than a year now and it was never as notchy or dragy as yours (unless there was a short of the connections). I just spun mine without too much force and it spun for about 35 seconds while the light was connected.

Collin, isolate and solve, in Sacramento

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Collin A

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I have an older model SON that I got in 2000 or so and it only spins a few revolutions before stopping. I have 3 or so new SON’s and none of those have that friction. None of mine have been loud at all and I think the notchiness is part of the design. Magnets are in there and I don’t think those wear in.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 4:51 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Next question for this saga, for folks who know and ride these things: Do SON hubs break in and get quieter as the miles pile up? Like they're extra stiff and notchy at first, but last longer than other dynos? 

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[Leah Peterson]

Well. The taillight works great and the headlight didn’t work at ALL. I now wonder if the Edelux is the issue??? I don’t know how to disconnect wiring other than where the lights plug in at the hub. The mechanic said all the connections were good. After he switched the tire around, he got lights. I saw them when I picked up the bike though it was sunny and broad daylight I thought I could still detect the headlight. 

[Jon Dukeman]

Connector at the hub come loose on the way home? Check for loose connecter.

You will soon be an expert on dyno lighting systems

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 8:32 PM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well. The taillight works great and the headlight didn’t work at ALL. I now wonder if the Edelux is the issue??? I don’t know how to disconnect wiring other than where the lights plug in at the hub. The mechanic said all the connections were good. After he switched the tire around, he got lights. I saw them when I picked up the bike though it was sunny and broad daylight I thought I could still detect the headlight. 

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 6:47 PM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:

I have an older model SON that I got in 2000 or so and it only spins a few revolutions before stopping. I have 3 or so new SON’s and none of those have that friction. None of mine have been loud at all and I think the notchiness is part of the design. Magnets are in there and I don’t think those wear in.

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[Leah Peterson]

No, nice and tight. And this headlight has been testy for the bike shop, too. Wouldn’t come on. When when the mechanic flipped the wheel so the hub is on the drive side, the lights both worked. He couldn’t explain WHY but at least the light was on. Now I have a lovely taillight and NO headlight.

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 7:39 PM, Jon Dukeman <row.n.2...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Jon Dukeman]

Ask Peter if he would warranty the light and replace it.

He replaced a light for me when the bracket broke. He is the #1 distributer in the USA

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[Joe Bernard]

This is undoubtedly a stupid question but I like to hit the easy stuff just in case it got overlooked (like the car dies and the mechanic calls to say it's out of gas): Is the light in the On position? My Googling tells me you have On/Off/Auto and I don't see that it's obvious which position the switch is in. 

[Leah Peterson]

I desperately tried all the positions - and remember, the taillight works. I wanted so badly for this to be the solution…

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 8:12 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

This is undoubtedly a stupid question but I like to hit the easy stuff just in case it got overlooked (like the car dies and the mechanic calls to say it's out of gas): Is the light in the On position? My Googling tells me you have On/Off/Auto and I don't see that it's obvious which position the switch is in. 

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[Jay Lonner]

I was wondering the same, but if the switch were off I don't think the tail light would come on either.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

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[Joe Bernard]

Oh bother! Yeah, as someone else said I think that light needs to go back. Regardless of noise and notchiness at the dyno it's apparently sending current, the headlight just isn't getting it. 

[Joe Bernard]

I changed my mind, the whole schlamozzle needs to go back to Analog. The hub isn't right, the headlight isn't right, and you're going to have the shop detach the headlght from hub and bike anyway. I say have them send the whole wheel and light back so James or Candice can test both and see what's up. I realize this will be an unpopular opinion! 😬

Joe Bernard

[Eric Norris]

Based on my experience, they don’t “break in.” It has nothing to do with the bearings.

The notchiness is happening when super strong magnets inside the hub get close to metal parts—this is what makes the electricity. As the two approach each other, they attract and cause the “notch” feeling. Imagine holding two strong magnets and moving them vertically past each other. When the magnets get close enough, they’ll try to reach out to the other magnet—that’s what you’re feeling when the SON hub gets a little harder to turn.

Here are the internals of a SON hub. You can see the magnets arrayed around the inside of the hub shell.

So no, the hub won’t lose the notchiness. It’s built into the design.

P.S. It’s always a good idea to tell this to the bike shop if you take in a SON hub or wheel. Some mechanics will think that the notchiness is in the bearings (it isn’t) and will try to “help” by adjusting them (they can’t, and it will void the warranty).

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

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On Apr 28, 2021, at 4:51 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Roberta]

Leah,

You have the exact same (except for the color) headlight on your Clem L.  Could you take both bikes to the shop and swap headlights--or at least put the Clem L headlight on the Platy, even if it is just to test?  That way you'll be sure to rule in or rule out the headlight.

Roberta

[Ed Felker]

SON hubs can have internal problems. I have had two of them, disk-specific, same wheel, that have stopped working.

When they did fail, it was immediately obvious due to a prominent buzzing noise. That noise stopped when the hub was disconnected. Both were on our tandem. In one case the light output was nil, the other was dim and flickering.

Peter White handled both repairs without issue. He said the failure was something to do with the coil inside the hub.

We have another SON on a second tandem, also disk brake, that has been trouble-free.

Ed Felker

Washington, DC

On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 11:01:53 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I never had dyno until 2020, and now I have it on my 2 bikes. 

1. 52 cm Clem L with 650b wheels: Shutter Precision hub with Edelux II headlight and fender mounted SON taillight 

2. 55 cm Platypus with 700c wheels: Schmidt SON hub with Edelux II headlight and fender mounted SON taillight.

So: same lights but different generators.

SON has the votes for best dyno ever, so I went with that for my Platy, but so far, it's not been as good as the SP. I know that cannot be, so something must be wrong with my setup of the SON, or possibly the hub/generator itself. I think it has been this way from the start; I always thought the differences were due to the mounting location of the light.

We had both bikes out on a family ride and the Clem's light was blindingly bright - a veritable floodlight. The Platy's light appeared dim in comparison, even though I was riding the Platy at a faster speed. The Platy's rear light often flickers unless I am riding downhill, and the Clem's does not. I've checked the connections and as best as I can tell, there's nothing amiss. The Clem's headlight is front rack-mounted, and the Platy uses a fork-crown mount. I did a night ride with the Platy last night and was really underwhelmed by the beam. It is not the beam is blocked; it appears the light is just generally dimmed.  I ride a dark path through the desert where there is wilderness on one side and homes distantly located on the other, no streetlights. I need good illumination; the Clem gives ample lighting but I feel like I'm straining to see on my Platy..

Secondly, I hear something in the drivetrain or wheel set of the Platy. Almost like the sound of electrical current. It is only on the Platy, never the Clem. I have heard that the SON is supposed to be silent, but there is definitely noise coming from the bike, but I don't know if it's the hub.

I'm going to take the bike to the shop that built it and see if they can figure out the noise and the dim light. If you have any words of wisdom or direction I could point them in, please let me know here. 

Things I have considered:

1. Does the wheel size affect the difference in brightness? 

2. Does the mounting location affect the appearance of the beam? (I have tilted the Platy light this way and that so the beam doesn't fall on the front wheel, but no real difference was noted.)

3. Maybe there is some tension on the wires somehow?

********************************************************************

Don't read past here if you don't want to be subjected to my angst. It is cathartic to talk to bike people about bike woes; no one else understands.

I dread taking the bike in and presenting them with some obscure issues (What is this noise? Don't you hear it? Well, it's not doing it right NOW, but... My light is not bright enough! Can't you make it brighter?!) Most shops in Vegas don't know a thing about dyno; it took my LBS considerable time to suss out how to do it. So, I fear that the bike will come back to me in the same state and I will be slowly driven crazy by the sounds and the inferior lighting. Also, the Platy is special and I am overly attached to it. When things aren't right with it I am all sackcloth and ashes, wailing and gnashing of teeth over here.

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Thanks for your insight!

Leah

[masmojo]

I'll weigh in a on a few things

Yes, Contacts on the right (drive) side. 

Notchiness?  It's just an element of the way the magnets work, it will be worse when the light is on and when they bike is in the air. Once the bike is on the ground with weight on it; it will be imperceptible.

Dynamo hubs will loosen up a small amount over the first months of use, but it's hardly noticeable and likely no more than regular hubs.

Funny noise could be an element of having it mounted backwards (?) (just a guess)

JMHO, but I am also somewhat loath to trim the stock dynamo cables, It's easy to shorten them, but more difficult to make them longer.  Typically when joining dynamo wires I head down to the local hobby shop and get mini R/C connectors. this makes connecting and disconnecting a darn site easier and also cutting/soldering.

Important to note: that some lights are DC and some are AC, shouldn't really be an issue especially if the Tail light is the same brand as the front light. I don't remember which brand is which, but I think typically there's a circuit in the light that does the conversion.

I like the SON hubs, but I have to say I prefer the Plastic quick connect plugs over the small insulated connectors the SON uses, the SON  are really fiddley!

Also note that some lights won't switch on unless you turn them on while the wheel is moving; I haven't had a big problem with this, because I leave mine on all the time!

FWIW, I have a SON hub and Edelux light that I bought in a package deal of ebay, Hub seems fine, but I mounted the light up on my Evasion and the light (like yours), doesn't seem very bright.  (may be why the original owner sold them) I haven't really done much towards figuring out why, but it is interesting that you've had a similar experience.  Since I am currently not working, I mainly ride in the daylight, so the light is  primarily to be seen and it does that suitably well. Once Covid is over though I think I'll get a Supernova from Germany!!! Not really better, but I just prefer the design and the way they mount.

[Leah Peterson]

Update: it’s the light. 

The mechanic who installed the dyno system on my Clem  for me last year was working today, and he handled my Platy. He investigated  the whole system, ensured that all the wires and connections were correct and sturdy. The rear tail light does light up, so it seems unlikely the hub is the issue. He feels like the issue is originating in the headlight. Like there’s a short in it or a loose connection. He fiddled around with the switch and was able to get the headlight to come on in the stand. This is exactly what happened for yesterday‘s mechanic. When I picked the bike up and spun the wheel myself, the headlight did not light up.

I’m going to see if Schmidt will make this right. If not, I guess I’m just ordering another headlight. I can’t exactly go without one.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 29, 2021, at 12:44 PM, masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I'll weigh in a on a few things

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[Joe Bernard]

The Analog site shows a pink one in stock. Will they swap em for you, then let Schmidt deal with the light you sent back? 

[Leah Peterson]

I was hoping but I haven’t heard anything. I would just order it but I’m sure there’s other parts I need for the wiring and i don’t know what they are😭

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 29, 2021, at 5:31 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Analog site shows a pink one in stock. Will they swap em for you, then let Schmidt deal with the light you sent back? 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6b74030d-ccf5-487a-90a4-08767b959508n%40googlegroups.com.

[Joe Bernard]

This dang light! The one they have says 'bare wire' and you already have the coaxial thing they sell so you should be good to go with just swapping the lamps and the shop will plug the wires in. Let's hope Analog says "Yep, what Joe said!" 

[George Schick]

I assume SON, like everyone else nowadays, is using LED lighting.  These require circuitry other than just a pair of wires running to a battery or a dynamo to provide the correct voltage to the diodes such as semiconductors to amplify and/or limit the voltage levels.  If there is a failure in the semiconductors in that light, you will get the kind of flickering or intermittent illumination described.  I have a few lights in my refrigerator that flicker like that and my electrical engineer son ensures me that it's a problem with a circuit board somewhere in the fridge.

[Peter Adler]

Edeluxes (of all generations) are LED lights. I don't know of any light manufacturer who uses the same model name for both LED and non-LED models. I'd be hard-pressed these days to name any name-brand bike light manufacturer who makes anything except LED lights.

As with any electrical circuit, component failure is always possible. The first thing to check is always the cables, because they're the most likely points of failure; but they're not the only ones.

Peter "can you...see the...brand new day?" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

[ascpgh]

 "I can’t exactly go without one."

Generator hubs and LED lighting will do this to you. They are the hard stuff, no gateway necessary.

I'll be enjoying my SON dynamo and Luxos B/Pixeo lights riding to and from work today, concentrating on being thankful for the gift of their functions. They cleared my thoughts for my new bike which is a SON SL with Edelux II and Compass tail light. I would be hard pressed to depart from making my own light. Night riding, even when dictated by commuting to work, is great!

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Peter White]

Reversing the wheel, by itself, cannot possibly cause the lights to work, stop working, work differently, work better or worse. The orientation of the wheel with that hub is absolutely irrelevant. Something else had to have changed.

Leah, call me, please.

On Wed, Apr 28, 2021 at 10:32 PM Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well. The taillight works great and the headlight didn’t work at ALL. I now wonder if the Edelux is the issue??? I don’t know how to disconnect wiring other than where the lights plug in at the hub. The mechanic said all the connections were good. After he switched the tire around, he got lights. I saw them when I picked up the bike though it was sunny and broad daylight I thought I could still detect the headlight. 

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Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2021, at 6:47 PM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:

I have an older model SON that I got in 2000 or so and it only spins a few revolutions before stopping. I have 3 or so new SON’s and none of those have that friction. None of mine have been loud at all and I think the notchiness is part of the design. Magnets are in there and I don’t think those wear in.

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Peter White

[Leah Peterson]

It’s time for a finale to this saga. I know more about dynamo systems now than I did before, and that’s worth something. Thanks to everyone (especially Peter White) for sharing their expertise with me. 

Peter White and Analog will have me back on the road with a working light soon, and I won’t be weeping in the parking lot of the bike shop anymore. All will be well.

Something of note, for other Platypus owners. You may find it beneficial to have a mount that elevates your light a bit. Peter is sending a B&M mount that attaches at the headset. There’s a very sizable shadow from my fork crown mount (something about the geo/slant of the head tube), and this new mount eliminates that. So, brighter light with NO shadow coming my way soon. So happy. So relieved. 

Thanks again, All.

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 30, 2021, at 4:09 AM, Peter White <peter...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Eric Norris]

So … there’s light at the end of the tunnel?

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[Joe Bernard]

This is good news! I like good things! 🥳🎈🎉 🎊

Joe "less gnashing, more joy" Bernard

[George Schick]

Does this mean that the bike has to go back to the LBS one more time in order to get that headset mount installed?

[Leah Peterson]

Why do you ask?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 30, 2021, at 11:54 AM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does this mean that the bike has to go back to the LBS one more time in order to get that headset mount installed?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/137bca50-8a46-460e-88b6-1ff38db9d930n%40googlegroups.com.

[George Schick]

I ask because I'm "Curious George!"  Since Peter spec'd a headset mount, that means taking off the bars/stem, unscrewing the headset lock nut, and installing the mount in place of a spacer.  Then, the process is reversed, but it will mean playing around with the headset adjustable nut and the lock nut in order to achieve proper movement of the fork - not too tight and not too loose.  Not sure if you have the spanners and flat wrenches to do that.

[Leah Peterson]

George, if I’ve had an unpleasant exchange with someone I tend to be wary. Thanks for clarifying that you’re asking in good faith. Yes, the bike will go back to the shop. I’m hardly a light-mounting and wiring expert. Even if I did have a nice long talk with the great Peter White this morning. Maybe in 20 years I could hope to scratch the surface of what he knows!

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 30, 2021, at 12:14 PM, George Schick <Bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I ask because I'm "Curious George!"  Since Peter spec'd a headset mount, that means taking off the bars/stem, unscrewing the headset lock nut, and installing the mount in place of a spacer.  Then, the process is reversed, but it will mean playing around with the headset adjustable nut and the lock nut in order to achieve proper movement of the fork - not too tight and not too loose.  Not sure if you have the spanners and flat wrenches to do that.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9fb0aab4-f9d2-4192-b0b3-9af06850cb88n%40googlegroups.com.

[George Schick]

Yikes!  I didn't realize we'd ever had an unpleasant exchange of which you needed to be wary.  Are you sure you're not getting me confused with someone else?  In any case, yes I thought the bike would have to go back to the shop for mounting of the headset bracket and moving the wiring, accordingly.

[Roberta]

Andy, yes, this is the hard stuff!  It’s freeing knowing I could ride at any time and not worry about lighting. In college I had bottle- on-wheel generator system. Talk about drag!  Still, I always had working light. 

Peter White and Analog come thru with their “legendary” customer service. 

Roberta

[Doug H.]

I can see the virtues of dynamo lighting but I'm still rocking the portable rechargeable ones on my ride. All the wiring and contact points and all that would complicate my bike too much. I hope you get it resolved Leah. Your bike is awesome-sauce!

Doug

[Mr. Ray]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned anywhere but for SON hubs it is important to not put much grease on the skewer otherwise the hub can malfunction:

 "A lot of grease on a 5mm or 15mm skewer may block the pressure compensation system. Nevertheless, to avoid corrosion, we recommend a slight film of oil or grease; best idea will be applying some spray wax. In any case contact areas at screw head and thread need some grease".

Most mechanics grease hub skewers generously.

[Doug H.]

I am reviving this old post just to see if the Edelux light was the culprit? I am installing Dynamo on my Clem currently (Thanks Roberta for the B&M Taillight!). I ordered a B&M headlight so won't be using the Edelux but want to know about Leah's issue resolution.

Thanks,

Doug

[Leah Peterson]

Hi! The Edelux light was dim and by the time that I got it in the shop, it was dead. I got a replacement and it’s been fine ever since.

On May 23, 2022, at 1:43 PM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am reviving this old post just to see if the Edelux light was the culprit? I am installing Dynamo on my Clem currently (Thanks Roberta for the B&M Taillight!). I ordered a B&M headlight so won't be using the Edelux but want to know about Leah's issue resolution.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6102e897-a735-4b35-80b9-ae23934d5871n%40googlegroups.com.

[Doug H.]

Thanks for the quick response. I'm looking forward to dynamo and no more charging batteries! Except for my Wabi which may end up with dynamo too.

Doug