Help me repair Pam's Silver shifters

[Eric Marth]

Hi all — I'm looking for some neglected, cast off or broken Silver 1 shifters to scavenge so that I can repair some broken Silver 1 shifters sent to me by forum member Pam Murray. If you have some you aren't using or that you think are broken which you are willing to send me for the cost of shipping please let me know. I will use them to repair Pam's shifters and get them back to her! 

I recently read enjoyed Pam's thread on broken Silver shifters. And right on time one of my Silvers broke. So I took mine apart to have a look. It turns out the spring was clogged with corrosion and wouldn't compress, allowing for the pawl to hold the ratchet wheel and hold tension on the shifter cable. Luckily the spring and pawl only needed to be cleaned and reassembled. 

Pam sent me three broken Silver shifters. As many of us know, Pam has put tens of thousands of miles on her legendary Betty Foy. She's worn out many parts and she's interested in getting them back into service when possible. I took a look and was able to fix one of the shifters. The other two require new pawls, which I can't locate. 

I reached out to Dia Compe in Taiwan about spare parts. They replied quickly but said they could not send me any bits and pieces and suggested I contact Rivendell. 

So I wrote to Will Keating at Rivendell, who's a wonderfully helpful and nice guy and a friend and he said he'd send me some parts. Well, they arrived today and they're brand new Silver 2 levers. I really don't want to destroy brand new shifters to revive old shifters! I'm sure the pawls I need are inside but I can't bring myself to tear them apart. They've very definitely never been installed on a bike. 

I have found some replacement springs from McMaster-Carr. They're heavier gauge wire and slightly longer than the stock springs from Dia Compe. But they fit and they work. They do result in a lever with heavier action but they do not make the lever difficult to operate. 

My plan, once I locate some pawls, is to make a Silver shifter repair and maintenance video. I hope that with donated parts from other members I can fix Pam's shifters, show the process of disassembly, repair and re-assembly and share it with the group (and the rest of the web). I'll include a detailed look of the proper order for all the bits and how the get the shifter closed back up. 

Thanks in advance! 

[Peter Adler]

Sounds like a task tailor-made for 3D printing. The ideal situation would be if Dia-Compe would send you the 3D file that they almost certainly have, but I'm sure that (rational) liability concerns will prevent this.

Peter Adler

no longer professionally engaged in the rich-people-suing-other-rich-people industry, but still aware of the thought processes in

Berkeley, CA/USA

[Eric Marth]

Great idea about 3D printing, Peter! I'll reach out to Riv on the off chance they can get me the file I need. 

Our local library has a maker space with a 3D scanner and 3D printers, so I can go get certified and see if I can make some stuff! It's about a 5 minute walk for me. 

[Michael Hammer]

The mechanism looks almost identical to the Suntour Barcon (of course) so broken Barcons might be a source of parts.  In addition the stem or downtube mounted Suntour power ratchet shifters might also have the spring.  See velobase here: https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=39b0c9b8-10d7-4324-8bf4-f65eca2d209a&Enum=104  The power ratchets might be found at a bike recycling place.  Here's a diagram of the barcon:

[Eric Marth]

Thanks, Michael. IIRC the Silver 1s are copied from the Suntour Sprint downtube levers. From this diagram it looks like the design of the Silver levers is very similar. But the depiction of the pawl (No. 3, "Ratchet spring A) looks considerably different than the Silver pawl. It could be that other ratcheting Suntour levers contain the parts I require. 

The real bear of the Bar Cons is item No. 15, the hexagonal axle nut! There's someone on iBOB who 3D printed some. 

[Garth]

I suspect the bar end shifter is more like the thumbshifter design in that the ratchet and all related parts are notable larger than on the Sprint DT version. I like the idea of 3d imaging and machining of parts, if/when possible !

[Wesley]

I am frankly amazed at the workout Pam is giving her bike, to wear out multiple shifter pawls! I can imagine a few ways to do a repair, none of which are "worth it", in terms of resource and money cost (3D printing, filing down a bit of aluminum bar, CNC milling). The most expedient fix, IMO, would be to epoxy the ratchet gear to the shifter body so that the both directions work in friction mode.

-Wes

[Pam Bikes]

I ordered a new shifter but - duh - ordered the wrong one.  So I ordered the correct one.  It's on it's way.  

I promise I'm not lax about my bike.  But I'm not overly careful.  Parts wear out and break.  I like a tall kickstand and I strap my purse on the handlebars and sometimes it falls or the wind blows it down.  I have been better.  And sometimes I get it off Amtrak and it has fallen apparently.  So now I have some foam and a cardboard tube I put on the L so if it falls it won't break hopefully.  But I know I'll need another shifter at some point in the future.  

I like to keep spare parts in the closet.  I use my bike everyday. 

BTW I did try to put an old pair of SunTour shifters on and for some reason, They wouldn't get tight enough to have enough friction to hold.  A friend had a pair I would have used.

Thank you to everyone who is helping us out.  Among us all we have all the parts.  

[Pam Bikes]

forgot to post the purse on handlebar pictures.

On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

[Garth]

A couple things with the ST Sprint shifters Pam. Firstly I don't know for sure, but I'd venture to guess the compression washer Riv and others sell for the Dia Compe/Riv versions will likely work as I thought these were based on the Sprint tooling. Secondly, I read this about Campagnolo DT shifters that slip, that is to apply some rosin powder to the inside of the washer. Rosin is a tacky powder typically used by baseball pitchers for better grip. This gives the shifter washer some added friction. Any sporting goods store that sells baseball stuff with have either a rosin bag or a bottle of powder. More friction inside the shifter means it doesn't need to be tightened as much, hence last longer !

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Wes, Pam’s bike is a model of beausage. There is no Betty Foy used harder…maybe Caroline Gollum can give Pam a run for her money, but that’s about it. (Caroline wrote in a recent thread that her well-loved Betty had a stem seized and then later they discovered the skewer to the wheel was seized, too.) Pam just crossed over 74,000 miles on her Betty. Not bad for a bike purchased in 2011!

Here is the 10 year anniversary post Pam did about her Betty. I’m sure that little bike is far more marked up now than it was in those photos.

https://cltspokespeople.org/my-betty-foy-after-10-years/

Leah

On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 11:12:44 AM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

[christian poppell]

I too am impressed that the pawls have worn out. I havent seen it mentioned yet, what is the original material of the pawl?

For 3d printing, Shapeways.com can print in a variety of materials with good resolution and decent timeline. 

For lasercutting, Sendcutsend.com is a good economical option if they have a stock that matches the thickenss of the pawl. Resolution with laser cutters is pretty good but oversizing the mating surface and filing to fit would probably give the best result with the least amount of fiddling. Might have to work around a minimum size requirement but you could gang a few together with bridges. They have all sorts of materials in different thicknesses.

A jewelers saw, flat stock, and some paitence would do the same but theres a little more skill involved. 

If you need any help drawing it up for cutting shoot me a PM. Happy to help get these shifters back on the road!

Christian

Phoenix, AZ

[Eric Marth]

I don't think the pawls wore out, necessarily, it's that they're missing from the shifters I received. 

What's more likely is the spring wore out. I found springs, haven't found pawls. 

Christian, I thought of Send Cut Send, as well, I've used them in the past. Hand cutting pawls is off the table, too involved! 

[Sarah Carlson]

Thank you for sharing! That's a great post and great example of how to respond to well earned wear and tear. I still fret a little bit over marks but maybe I'll learn to relax about it.....

On Thursday, September 21, 2023 at 12:28:16 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[Taylor Kurosaki]

I just want to thank you, Eric, and this community for being so amazing. I bought a used 58cm Homer Hilsen last year from a Riv rider in Costa Rica. My goal was to set it up as an all-day All-Road bike with drop bars. It came set-up with Albastache bars and Silver2 bar end shifters. I rode it as is for a while and really liked the set-up, but, expectations being what they are, I just had to see how it felt in proper drop-bar configuration. As it had an 8-speed  Shimano 11-40 cassette with the absolutely incredible Acera 3020 RD, I went Shimergo setup with some beautiful Campy Chorus 10-speed brifters with the drop bars. Well, it didn't feel as comfortable as capable as it did with the Albastache bars and friction shifting. I'm not in the process of returning it to its previous form, but I noticed that the right shifter had no audible or tactile ratchet action, unlike the left. I'm really not a tinkerer at all, so my first thought was to buy a replacement Silver shifter. Rivendell's pages about dismantling the Silver shifters, plus Eric's post and his amazing Silver Shifter Youtube video gave me the confidence to attempt the dissasembly. I'm also recently living in Switzerland so getting parts is a bit of an ordeal. I followed Eric's video and when I opened-up the shifter I discovered a bunch of dirt or something caked into the area where the pawl pivots away from the ratchet. It was stuck in such a way that the spring was always compressed and the pawl never engaged with the ratchet. I carefully removed all the parts, storing them in a plastic bag and then thoroughly cleaned the gunk out of the shifter body, especially in that pawl pivot area. I reassembled everything and voila! That sweet feeling and sounding ratchet action was back! I'm now at the stage of running new cables and housing and my awesome Homer will be back in its Albastache form but now with much nicer shifting action. Thanks, Eric and all. -Taylor